RE: Jaguar XE V6 S: UK Review

[SidewaysSi]

Seems like most PHers on this thread care about the interior and rear light design on their sports saloon than anything else.

And does it really matter even if the engine can trace its roots back to Ford many years ago?

And a comparison to a sodding Audi A6, one of the worst driving cars on the road?

Do these things really matter? It's a great driving car, the best in class in that respect. That's all that has a bearing for me and for that Jaguar should be applauded.

[Audidodat]

Kawasicki said:

I drove a diesel one a couple of weeks ago.

I was really impressed, it was fun to drive.

I keep seeing people make these comments. Then I remind myself, it's a posh repmobile. No shame in that, I have a 3 Series that's the same sort of thing. I can't for the life of me imagine just going out for a drive for the sake of it in such a car, though. The vast majority of the time you're sat in traffic or bombing along the motorway or A roads in streams of traffic. Then the infotainment and other systems need to be easy to use, pleasant and reliable. You don't want to be putting more fuel than necessary in it. At those moments, the finer details in communication through the wheel or transfer from under to oversteer are about as relevant as the colour of Adele's undercrackers.

[FWDRacer]

Audidodat said:

I keep seeing people make these comments. Then I remind myself, it's a posh repmobile. No shame in that, I have a 3 Series that's the same sort of thing. I can't for the life of me imagine just going out for a drive for the sake of it in such a car, though. The vast majority of the time you're sat in traffic or bombing along the motorway or A roads in streams of traffic. Then the infotainment and other systems need to be easy to use, pleasant and reliable. You don't want to be putting more fuel than necessary in it. At those moments, the finer details in communication through the wheel or transfer from under to oversteer are about as relevant as the colour of Adele's undercrackers.

So wrong, yet so representative of what the area of the market has come to expect/be satisfied with.

An XE is a complete hoot to punt down a pock-marked B-road (I do it most mornings). You can't say that about a leaden understeery A4 or a (modern) BMW with rack and Nurofen steering.

[Audidodat]

FWDRacer said:

So wrong, yet so representative of what the area of the market has come to expect/be satisfied with.

An XE is a complete hoot to punt down a pock-marked B-road (I do it most mornings). You can't say that about a leaden understeery A4 or a (modern) BMW with rack and Nurofen steering.

It's no more or less wrong than someone with the opposite opinion (you, for example). We all buy things for our own reasons.

If I wanted a car primarily to enjoy driving for driving's sake, I wouldn't buy a premium repmobile. Other people might. Whether there are enough people in one camp or the other to justify a particular choice of design direction lies with the marketing bods at whichever company makes the thing.

I am would imagine the majority of people in this area of the market would prefer a fully resolved and cost effective product that has a wide range of postive attributes. Which of the those attributes people place higher than others will be personal choice. That those personal choices might not match yours doesn't make them wrong (or right), just different.

FWIW I'd rather have a comfy car for A to B duties and a drivers car for driving duties.

[George111]

Audidodat said:

FWDRacer said:

So wrong, yet so representative of what the area of the market has come to expect/be satisfied with.

An XE is a complete hoot to punt down a pock-marked B-road (I do it most mornings). You can't say that about a leaden understeery A4 or a (modern) BMW with rack and Nurofen steering.

It's no more or less wrong than someone with the opposite opinion (you, for example). We all buy things for our own reasons.

If I wanted a car primarily to enjoy driving for driving's sake, I wouldn't buy a premium repmobile. Other people might. Whether there are enough people in one camp or the other to justify a particular choice of design direction lies with the marketing bods at whichever company makes the thing.

I am would imagine the majority of people in this area of the market would prefer a fully resolved and cost effective product that has a wide range of postive attributes. Which of the those attributes people place higher than others will be personal choice. That those personal choices might not match yours doesn't make them wrong (or right), just different.

FWIW I'd rather have a comfy car for A to B duties and a drivers car for driving duties.

Most of these will be company leases to people who probably wouldn't buy one otherwise and perhaps people who don't have money/room/time for two cars so need a more interesting every day car. It's probably a good compromise but I'd be more concerned with the lack of room, especially in the rear, even young children are going to find it very cramped if their parents are more than 5'6" tall.

[cerb4.5lee]

Audidodat said:

I keep seeing people make these comments. Then I remind myself, it's a posh repmobile. No shame in that, I have a 3 Series that's the same sort of thing. I can't for the life of me imagine just going out for a drive for the sake of it in such a car, though.

I agree with this and they are just cars to commute in/take the family out/nip to the tip in, and I would never dream of just jumping in my 3 series for the sake of it and go for a drive, they just aren't that type of car IMO.

[cerb4.5lee]

Audidodat said:

FWIW I'd rather have a comfy car for A to B duties and a drivers car for driving duties.

Exactly this.

[DonkeyApple]

Audidodat said:

I keep seeing people make these comments. Then I remind myself, it's a posh repmobile. No shame in that, I have a 3 Series that's the same sort of thing. I can't for the life of me imagine just going out for a drive for the sake of it in such a car, though. The vast majority of the time you're sat in traffic or bombing along the motorway or A roads in streams of traffic. Then the infotainment and other systems need to be easy to use, pleasant and reliable. You don't want to be putting more fuel than necessary in it. At those moments, the finer details in communication through the wheel or transfer from under to oversteer are about as relevant as the colour of Adele's undercrackers.

I think you are mostly right. The majority of small saloons are initially just company cars as you say. And as such, most users will be focussing on other criteria. Obviously halo and performance models play a very important role in projecting the right image to assist with the bulk sales of the diesels etc.

Rather bizarrely, it's going to be the handling and performance of the FPace that is more important as these are more likely to be private/personal purchases where such dynamics are maybe more relevant in a discussion process?

[Wills2]

Racer27 said:

34mpg for a 340 Horsepower sports Saloon. Hardly Dreary fuel consumption

But again JLR is behind the curve BMW will give you 430hp for the same official MPG.

[Audidodat]

I imagine the reality is none of them offer 34mpg other than in the brochure or driving down a very long hill.

[BertoniBertone]

If Jag doesn't walk away from superchargers pretty soon they'll be forced to stay 'niche' with their petrols which is unsustainable in the XE class. They urgently need to get that petrol Ingenium into the market...and then add a turbo or two. Otherwise buyers will just look at the C02 figures and walk. A Gen 2 991 'S' has better figures.....I cannot see Jag ever breaking out from under the shadow of LR which is a much more successful brand. Without LR cashflow it's goodbye Jag, sadly.

[jamieduff1981]

What a shift in brand positioning we have here.

In the 1990s and even the 2000s, most people said things like "What kind of plonker spends all that money on a BMW 3-series? It's just a tool to get from A to B. A Ford Mondeo or Vauxhall Cavalier/Vectra costs less. Nobody cares about handling. It's just for droning up and down the road to work and back."

Meanwhile, those "plonkers" in their expensive BMW 3-series were trying to explain to non-car people that they liked the driver focus and sporty handling of their BMW, that they liked a car that could reward on those occasions that involved an interesting road. A compromise for someone who had to go to work every day, had a family but hadn't given up on driving completely. Of course, Mondeo and Vectra man thought the BMW drivers were mad.


Fast forward to 2016 and there are rumblings that someone might have built a car that is better to drive than a 3 series. Cue all the BMW drivers chiming in with "What kind of plonker spends all that money on a Jaguar XE? It's just a tool to get from A to B. A BMW 3-series diesel costs less. Nobody cares about handling. It's just for droning up and down the road to work and back."

[jamieduff1981]

Wills2 said:

Racer27 said:

34mpg for a 340 Horsepower sports Saloon. Hardly Dreary fuel consumption

But again JLR is behind the curve BMW will give you 430hp for the same official MPG.

I agree. Jaguar need to get better at fabricating wildly optimistic figures nobody can get close to like the Germans. Honesty isn't the best policy. The market lacks the intelligence for that.

[FWDRacer]

jamieduff1981 said:

What a shift in brand positioning we have here.

In the 1990s and even the 2000s, most people said things like "What kind of plonker spends all that money on a BMW 3-series? It's just a tool to get from A to B. A Ford Mondeo or Vauxhall Cavalier/Vectra costs less. Nobody cares about handling. It's just for droning up and down the road to work and back."

Meanwhile, those "plonkers" in their expensive BMW 3-series were trying to explain to non-car people that they liked the driver focus and sporty handling of their BMW, that they liked a car that could reward on those occasions that involved an interesting road. A compromise for someone who had to go to work every day, had a family but hadn't given up on driving completely. Of course, Mondeo and Vectra man thought the BMW drivers were mad.


Fast forward to 2016 and there are rumblings that someone might have built a car that is better to drive than a 3 series. Cue all the BMW drivers chiming in with "What kind of plonker spends all that money on a Jaguar XE? It's just a tool to get from A to B. A BMW 3-series diesel costs less. Nobody cares about handling. It's just for droning up and down the road to work and back."

Absolutely bang on.

A small sports saloon. RWD. Otherwise you might as well say, lets sacrifice all the dynamics for a smaller transmission tunnel so we have more space for our 8oz cup holders. More room in the back too.

An E30 BMW was a small sports saloon. You had one because of the drive, not in spite of it...

A Rep mobile was a middling saloon - Christ - SRi stod for Sales Rep inside.

Fast forward to 2016. Premium Rep Mobile or small sports saloon? The XE is closest thing you can get to the original E30 3-series ethos, especially as a V6 petrol. Everyone goes nearly giddy at an un-barried E30 325i Sport. Why? becasue they are great(fun) to drive. Driving first, everything else second. Take an XE, really lean on it and you'll realise why it is the ride/handling reference.

Edited by FWDRacer on Friday 25th March 13:33

[SidewaysSi]

Audidodat said:

FWIW I'd rather have a comfy car for A to B duties and a drivers car for driving duties.

What modern car in this class is not "comfy"? The fact the XE will destroy an A4 as a driver's car easily swings it for me. And I would argue the Jag is the more comfortable of the two as well.

[bodhi]

FWDRacer said:

Absolutely bang on.

A small sports saloon. RWD. Otherwise you might as well say, lets sacrifice all the dynamics for a smaller transmission tunnel so we have more space for our 8oz cup holders. More room in the back too.

An E30 BMW was a small sports saloon. You had one because of the drive, not in spite of it...

A Rep mobile was a middling saloon - Christ - SRi stod for Sales Rep inside.

Fast forward to 2016. Premium Rep Mobile or small sports saloon? The XE is closest thing you can get to the original E30 3-series ethos, especially as a V6 petrol. Everyone goes nearly giddy at an un-barried E30 325i Sport. Why? becasue they are great(fun) to drive. Driving first, everything else second. Take an XE, really lean on it and you'll realise why it is the ride/handling reference.

Edited by FWDRacer on Friday 25th March 13:33

Utter nonsense imo. You're more likely to find the XE / 3 series etc are more like the modern equivalent of the E34 5 Series - if you want a modern E30, ie a BMW that puts the drive above all else and bugger how much rooms in it, you need a 2 Series. Much like all the competition, the 3 has moved up a class now, like it or not.

I may look at an XE when its time to replace the 1er, I'm still to be convinced they are as good an all rounder as the 3er, but unlike with Audi and Merc I am open to looking at one.. Looking at the deals on a 340 however, it's going to be a tough sell.

[Wills2]

jamieduff1981 said:

Wills2 said:

Racer27 said:

34mpg for a 340 Horsepower sports Saloon. Hardly Dreary fuel consumption

But again JLR is behind the curve BMW will give you 430hp for the same official MPG.

I agree. Jaguar need to get better at fabricating wildly optimistic figures nobody can get close to like the Germans. Honesty isn't the best policy. The market lacks the intelligence for that.

No it just means on the same test JLR can't match a more powerful cars fuel consumption, both will average around 25-28mpg in real world conditions yet the jag has 90 ponies less.

But JLR are probably investing in a new set of weighing scales as they can't even be honest about that metric.

[MrML]

cerb4.5lee said:

Audidodat said:

I keep seeing people make these comments. Then I remind myself, it's a posh repmobile. No shame in that, I have a 3 Series that's the same sort of thing. I can't for the life of me imagine just going out for a drive for the sake of it in such a car, though.

I agree with this and they are just cars to commute in/take the family out/nip to the tip in, and I would never dream of just jumping in my 3 series for the sake of it and go for a drive, they just aren't that type of car IMO.

Funnily enough my XE 3.0 S is the first saloon car I HAVE enjoyed driving enough to go for a 'driver for the sake of it'. They really are superb fun to drive, just enough power to test the handling but not so much that you are constantly backing off/checking for plod (like a M3 / XFR etc) nice noise etc... but comfier than the F-TYPE on the bumpy b-roads round my way and great for a long road trip.

I genuinely think I may have found MY perfect all-round car, though I understand other people may be more interested in plastic quality, image, MPG etc.... (though quite what they are doing hanging around pistonheads I don't know? -this used to be a TVR forum...)

The problem for me with the weekend car scenario is that I never end up using them enough, so you plod along all week in your diesel (enjoying the marvelous cabin plastics ) and then have a car sat in the garage gathering dust. Perhaps that's because any chance I get I'm out on my motorbike!

[cerb4.5lee]

MrML said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Audidodat said:

I keep seeing people make these comments. Then I remind myself, it's a posh repmobile. No shame in that, I have a 3 Series that's the same sort of thing. I can't for the life of me imagine just going out for a drive for the sake of it in such a car, though.

I agree with this and they are just cars to commute in/take the family out/nip to the tip in, and I would never dream of just jumping in my 3 series for the sake of it and go for a drive, they just aren't that type of car IMO.

Funnily enough my XE 3.0 S is the first saloon car I HAVE enjoyed driving enough to go for a 'driver for the sake of it'. They really are superb fun to drive, just enough power to test the handling but not so much that you are constantly backing off/checking for plod (like a M3 / XFR etc) nice noise etc... but comfier than the F-TYPE on the bumpy b-roads round my way and great for a long road trip.

I genuinely think I may have found MY perfect all-round car, though I understand other people may be more interested in plastic quality, image, MPG etc.... (though quite what they are doing hanging around pistonheads I don't know? -this used to be a TVR forum...)

The problem for me with the weekend car scenario is that I never end up using them enough, so you plod along all week in your diesel (enjoying the marvelous cabin plastics ) and then have a car sat in the garage gathering dust. Perhaps that's because any chance I get I'm out on my motorbike!

I get that using a second car can be a waste but I tried using a V8 M3 as a one car does it all daily and it didn't work for me, so I just think the best set up if feasible is to have a nice fairly quick daily but also have an exciting motor for the weekends too.

I do get why some like the sports saloon do it all thing though because it saves on the two car running costs when the other car spends all week just sat in the garage.

[SidewaysSi]

Wills2 said:

jamieduff1981 said:

Wills2 said:

Racer27 said:

34mpg for a 340 Horsepower sports Saloon. Hardly Dreary fuel consumption

But again JLR is behind the curve BMW will give you 430hp for the same official MPG.

I agree. Jaguar need to get better at fabricating wildly optimistic figures nobody can get close to like the Germans. Honesty isn't the best policy. The market lacks the intelligence for that.

No it just means on the same test JLR can't match a more powerful cars fuel consumption, both will average around 25-28mpg in real world conditions yet the jag has 90 ponies less.

But JLR are probably investing in a new set of weighing scales as they can't even be honest about that metric.

Does it matter when the Jaguar is the better driver's car?