Tesla Model 3 revealed
Discussion
FurtiveFreddy said:
We're getting into custard powder territory now!
Again, how are you so sure it as a Model 3?
I'd love to think there were some here, but there's been nothing spotted on the regular Tesla forums and those guys are obsessive...
But they also probably haven't been outside, away from their computers for twenty years? Again, how are you so sure it as a Model 3?
I'd love to think there were some here, but there's been nothing spotted on the regular Tesla forums and those guys are obsessive...
rscott said:
Once this sort of tech - https://www.theverge.com/ces/2017/1/5/14185134/tan... and http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/technology-35232827/c... - becomes widely available, it could be a very different matter. You'd be able to 'feel' the virtual buttons.
Still doesn't solve the problem. You don't want to know what you've just touched, you want to have a physical reference point to 'anchor to' before you start making an adjustment.Venturist said:
Tuna said:
Still doesn't solve the problem. You don't want to know what you've just touched, you want to have a physical reference point to 'anchor to' before you start making an adjustment.
That's exactly what it's doing...Haptic kit is a step forward on touch screens but it still doesn't come close to the real thing that it is attempting to emulate.
To me the touch screen that controls vital driving functionality will not be long lived. It's a gimmick in Tesla's and it's not something that's been rushed by existing manufacturers to adopt too far beyond non essential controls. If anything, some of those controls are just used to stablise the hand to allow other controls to be adjusted.
We'll just have to wait and see but until something surpasses hand controls the genuinely tactile hand control will remain superior to tech trying to emulate it.
The iDrive didn't work and has gone for essential functionality and I'd bet a bit of change that touch screens will go the same way regardless of how much of a boner they give to techies.
DonkeyApple said:
It's hard to see how it surpasses the basic and fully functioning ability of knobs and dials though.
The main advantage is that with traditional switchgear 1 button = 1 purpose. You need a button or knob for each individual function. With a configurable touchscreen you can eliminate all that clutter (and, yes, cost).
And if that touchscreen has virtual 3D haptic buttons so it can be operated by feel, then that's the main drawback taken care of too.
Venturist said:
The main advantage is that with traditional switchgear 1 button = 1 purpose. You need a button or knob for each individual function.
With a configurable touchscreen you can eliminate all that clutter (and, yes, cost).
And if that touchscreen has virtual 3D haptic buttons so it can be operated by feel, then that's the main drawback taken care of too.
You don't need that many buttons for core driving functions and the haptic screen doesn't solve the issue of holding the hand stable while traveling down the road. I really think that once the tech is fully available it will then be fully appreciated that it isn't fully viable. With a configurable touchscreen you can eliminate all that clutter (and, yes, cost).
And if that touchscreen has virtual 3D haptic buttons so it can be operated by feel, then that's the main drawback taken care of too.
A bit like the digital readout fad when that tech became available. It was all super cool to have but we've moved swiftly back to dial displays for essential information.
Technological leaps forward are brilliant but they don't always fit in where people first rush to put them and usually end of finding completely new uses and creating entirely new products, a bit like the smart phone. We are now in a phase is sticking them absolutely everywhere we possibly can but some of those applications will be dead ends and I suspect using them for core driving controls will be one of them. Primarily because at no level does it surpass the efficiency of big knobs, buttons and dials for those specific functions.
My car has both touchpad controls, knobs and controls on the wheel as well as voice activation. I use all of them except the voice activation although I probably could and should use that more. Depending on what I want to do and whether the car is stationary or moving they all have their uses. The touchpad for instance is brilliant for entering an address in the sat nav instead of twirling a knob backwards and forwards which would take 3 times as long.
This also paves the way for the future, in 20 years time when most cars are driverless the touchpad and\or voice controls will be the only interface you need. The Tesla is being marketed as a futuristic product so this is an attempt to bring that forward, it may be a bit premature at the moment but in a few years time the idea of flicking a switch or twirling knobs in a car will be quaint.
This also paves the way for the future, in 20 years time when most cars are driverless the touchpad and\or voice controls will be the only interface you need. The Tesla is being marketed as a futuristic product so this is an attempt to bring that forward, it may be a bit premature at the moment but in a few years time the idea of flicking a switch or twirling knobs in a car will be quaint.
DonkeyApple said:
You don't need that many buttons for core driving functions and the haptic screen doesn't solve the issue of holding the hand stable while traveling down the road. I really think that once the tech is fully available it will then be fully appreciated that it isn't fully viable.
A bit like the digital readout fad when that tech became available. It was all super cool to have but we've moved swiftly back to dial displays for essential information.
Technological leaps forward are brilliant but they don't always fit in where people first rush to put them and usually end of finding completely new uses and creating entirely new products, a bit like the smart phone. We are now in a phase is sticking them absolutely everywhere we possibly can but some of those applications will be dead ends and I suspect using them for core driving controls will be one of them. Primarily because at no level does it surpass the efficiency of big knobs, buttons and dials for those specific functions.
I can't see the issue with holding the hand stable, pretty much all cars now (except the Fiat 500 Abarth...) have a smooth ride, I don't think I've ever really be jolted enough to not be able to reach a button. Also if it really is an issue you'll have the same pressing a regular button or screen.A bit like the digital readout fad when that tech became available. It was all super cool to have but we've moved swiftly back to dial displays for essential information.
Technological leaps forward are brilliant but they don't always fit in where people first rush to put them and usually end of finding completely new uses and creating entirely new products, a bit like the smart phone. We are now in a phase is sticking them absolutely everywhere we possibly can but some of those applications will be dead ends and I suspect using them for core driving controls will be one of them. Primarily because at no level does it surpass the efficiency of big knobs, buttons and dials for those specific functions.
The reason Tesla have removed buttons and gone to a screen is for adding new functions. Since the "S" has been out the screen looks plus functions have periodically been upgraded, this would have been very difficult / impossible with buttons. (OK possible with i Drive). Off course the other reason is cost
In fact this is one of Tesla's aims. Instead of upgrading cars every 3-5 years to get the latest Tech, they are trying to sell you a battery / elec motor platform that will periodically be upgraded, as per new operating systems / apps / features on phones.
My bet is a lot of other manufacturers will follow suit.
Just a normal London B road was enough to stop you being able to use the S screen without taking your eyes off the road or your hand steady as there is nowhere to support your hand. It was the first car I'd ever driven where I found this issue. I've never driven another car where you couldn't make any change you liked and had to take your eyes off the road or had issues of needing a much more stable hand.
It was like trying to fine tune a radio dial while sitting in a massage chair on a cross channel ferry in the style of a nazi salute.
I personally think it's a flash in the pan and has been done because the tech was there but that doesn't mean it is superior in this particular application.
It was like trying to fine tune a radio dial while sitting in a massage chair on a cross channel ferry in the style of a nazi salute.
I personally think it's a flash in the pan and has been done because the tech was there but that doesn't mean it is superior in this particular application.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Tuesday 18th July 12:49
DonkeyApple said:
Just a normal London B road was enough to stop you being able to use the S screen without taking your eyes off the road or your hand steady as there is nowhere to support your hand. It was the first car I'd ever driven where I found this issue. I've never driven another car where you couldn't make any change you liked and had to take your eyes off the road or had issues of needing a much more stable hand.
It was like trying to fine tune a radio dial while sitting in a massage chair on a cross channel ferry in the style of a nazi salute.
I personally think it's a flash in the pan and has been done because the tech was there but that doesn't mean it is superior in this particular application.
Oh London. I shouldn't worry, cars will probably be outlawed there before any UK customer gets a 3 It was like trying to fine tune a radio dial while sitting in a massage chair on a cross channel ferry in the style of a nazi salute.
I personally think it's a flash in the pan and has been done because the tech was there but that doesn't mean it is superior in this particular application.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Tuesday 18th July 12:49
Outside the M25 I find touchscreens OK, even in cheap Korean tin cans........
WestyCarl said:
Oh London. I shouldn't worry, cars will probably be outlawed there before any UK customer gets a 3
Outside the M25 I find touchscreens OK, even in cheap Korean tin cans........
Most of them are small, and tend to provide a very small number of options at any one time. There's very little 'adjustment' style controls, mainly 'select this or that'. It's all designed so that you can stab and go - which means that haptics are absolutely no use whatsoever. It's quite normal for a touch screen display to be surrounded by dials to do things like volume or temperature up and down.Outside the M25 I find touchscreens OK, even in cheap Korean tin cans........
Notably, VW have it arranged that you choose what you're selecting (Radio, navigation etc.) with a physical button near the display, then make the selection on the screen.
I think people underestimate how difficult it is to get a physical user interface right. Unfortunately, making it all software defined doesn't make the problems go away. It's maybe less noticeable in the States where you can drive for miles before encountering a corner, but all the same it's not a good experience. The long term tests will be very interesting.
Tuna said:
I think people underestimate how difficult it is to get a physical user interface right. Unfortunately, making it all software defined doesn't make the problems go away. It's maybe less noticeable in the States where you can drive for miles before encountering a corner, but all the same it's not a good experience. The long term tests will be very interesting.
I don't disagree, but it's the way the Industry is moving. They see the so called Generation Z (born in 2000's) are seen as the future and having grown up with touch screen it's normal for them. I remember the 1st Iphone being criticized for no buttons, difficult to use, crap battery due to large screen.......... Side note: I sat through various future presentations on the car industry and the buzz words were "connectivity", "convince", "Autonomy", "user experience", not once did steering feel, engine note, oversteer come up.
As as 70's child I now realise most products aren't being designed with me in mind.........
WestyCarl said:
I don't disagree, but it's the way the Industry is moving. They see the so called Generation Z (born in 2000's) are seen as the future and having grown up with touch screen it's normal for them. I remember the 1st Iphone being criticized for no buttons, difficult to use, crap battery due to large screen..........
Side note: I sat through various future presentations on the car industry and the buzz words were "connectivity", "convince", "Autonomy", "user experience", not once did steering feel, engine note, oversteer come up.
As as 70's child I now realise most products aren't being designed with me in mind.........
All true but it's us Gen X and the Baby Boomers who have the money to buy these exclusive, luxury toys. The Millenials can't even afford razors or trousers that fit. Side note: I sat through various future presentations on the car industry and the buzz words were "connectivity", "convince", "Autonomy", "user experience", not once did steering feel, engine note, oversteer come up.
As as 70's child I now realise most products aren't being designed with me in mind.........
Plus, we've been around a fair bit longer and certainly done more miles in more cars and know a damn site more about what works, what doesn't and why. It's like, who knew that if you turfed your office and filled it with beanbags your staff would be less productive? Well, it was us.
https://youtu.be/ARzujfRiQ3c
Stripped out Tesla P100 with sticky tyres goes street racing and thrashes everyone.
Quite amusing.
Stripped out Tesla P100 with sticky tyres goes street racing and thrashes everyone.
Quite amusing.
Venturist said:
DonkeyApple said:
It's hard to see how it surpasses the basic and fully functioning ability of knobs and dials though.
The main advantage is that with traditional switchgear 1 button = 1 purpose. You need a button or knob for each individual function. With a configurable touchscreen you can eliminate all that clutter (and, yes, cost).
And if that touchscreen has virtual 3D haptic buttons so it can be operated by feel, then that's the main drawback taken care of too.
Without taking your eyes off the road you can reach out and press the button or turn the switch for sidelights headlights or the rear window defroster.
With a menu touch screen system you have to scroll it, read what it says then select it
Its the same with speedos. With a digital display you have to look and read the value then ask if that's more or less than where you wanted to be
With a dial you soon learn where the 30 50 70 positions are and just need to know the position of the pointer. Much less time with eyes off the road.
When your eyes are off the road, your brain is filling in information that it feels is there, but may not be.
Look at this for having the instruments up just below where youre normally looking and buttons within stabbing distance of the steering wheel
Edited by saaby93 on Thursday 27th July 08:37
Digitalize said:
Mainly because simpletons think by jamming loads of horsepower through 2 wheels will beat 4WD with instant torque and launch control. How any of them genuinely thought they had a chance on that short of a distance baffles me. It's like trying to fight a shark in the ocean.
I agree, but he did slso beat a GTR in that video, so kudos for that.I envisage modifying electric cars to be like the radio controlled car racing craze of the 80's. bigger and better batteries, 'hop up' motors, better speed contrillers and suchlike.
Might be fun
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