RE: BMW M4 GTS: Review

[markclow]

Why does the m4 have problems with traction. I have a similar powered car and you can really use the power. Is it because of the turbo?

[Catatafish]

kambites said:

Terminator X said:

Had it in my Spec C Impreza 10 years ago!

TX.

Water injection on an Impreza? Not OEM I assume.

Yes it was OEM, but japanese market only...

[Paddy78]

markclow said:

Why does the m4 have problems with traction. I have a similar powered car and you can really use the power. Is it because of the turbo?

Yes, almost certainly. I'm far from an expert, but the torque from a turbo will arrive very quickly and it is this turning force that is overwhelming the grip of the rear tyres causing them to break traction. An example of too much torque is the SLS black where they actually reduced peak torque over the normal version to try to maintain better traction... although the SLS wasn't turbo, it's more or less the same principle.

[Richair]

I'm sure it's a lovely thing, but like most I'm struggling with the price of these GTS models. For £120k I'm confident you could go buy an M4 and convert it to a race car, then you could have some proper fun. The sum of their parts just don't seem to add up to me... Like most I couldn't live with those wheels either.

One for the BMW fanboys and 'investors'.

[Kawasicki]

markclow said:

Why does the m4 have problems with traction. I have a similar powered car and you can really use the power. Is it because of the turbo?

this is obviously just my opinion...partly turbo grunt, partly strange rear axle set-up - the rear axle in the M4 behaves a lot like a live axle, the traction potential seems to be very sensitive to bumps. Maybe the rear anti-roll bar is too stiff, maybe the overall damping is too weak, maybe the rebound damping is too strong for the spring rate.

The normal M4 drives a lot like a muscle car....huge grunt, plenty of rear axle moments, the opposite of the previous M3.

[kambites]

Catatafish said:

Yes it was OEM, but japanese market only...

Hmm, are you sure you don't mean the intercooler water spray thing they have?

I'm far from an expert so you may be right, but I'd never heard of it before.

[PHMatt]

I'm sure most of the people that hate it drive knackered old hatches and badly modded 90's cars.

On to the article and the car, I love how BMW have fitter wider wheels and gone to the trouble of making bespoke bearings, suspension and steering components.
You know, rather than just putting the wrong size tyres on it to save a few quid.

I love the comments here about how the standard car has too much power for the road so what's the point of this.
This TRACK day special.

Some of you remind me of deluded football fans that, no matter how good another team is, can't just let it be good.

[ORD]

It's not a track car. It will never see a track. It weighs 1600kg FFS.

[vsonix]

Interesting to see the water/meth thing appearing on a factory car, even if it is a super-rare one such as this. It's one of those mods I've always been interested in trying out but it's a bit out of budget as there's not a lot of (if any) plug and play kits for E36 out there and it'd then require going halfway up-country for a decent custom map etc.

[Paddy78]

PHMatt said:

I'm sure most of the people that hate it drive knackered old hatches and badly modded 90's cars.

On to the article and the car, I love how BMW have fitter wider wheels and gone to the trouble of making bespoke bearings, suspension and steering components.
You know, rather than just putting the wrong size tyres on it to save a few quid.

I love the comments here about how the standard car has too much power for the road so what's the point of this.
This TRACK day special.

Some of you remind me of deluded football fans that, no matter how good another team is, can't just let it be good.

I’m not sure what someone’s personal / financial circumstances or choice of car has to do with having an opinion? If you don’t like that opinion then fair enough, there’s no need to try to belittle them, it’s not a personal attack.

The problem with this car, however amazing it may be, is that it’s a £120k BMW marketed at the super rich or collector. It isn’t what I or many people would call a track car, however fast and capable it may be. This is pure and simply a limited edition collectors item... an investment or bragging rights in the country club. If you wanted to track an M4, you’d buy a standard one and pay someone to strip it and track prep it. It would cost a lot less than £120k and would weigh a lot less than 1600kg imho. Or you’d buy a proper track car instead.

This is the Wayne Rooney of cars… brilliant sometimes, but not worth £300k a week. In a world where real football fans, (Your “knackered old hatchback and badly modded 90’s car drivers”), can’t afford to go to see a Premiere League match, is there any wonder there are some “deluded” people who think that just because something is expensive, doesn’t make it good. Or, just because you spend over £200M on players, doesn’t necessarily make a good team.

/end football analogies

[cerb4.5lee]

ORD said:

It's not a track car. It will never see a track. It weighs 1600kg FFS.

This is where I always struggle with this type of car to be honest, if I wanted a car to take onto a track it certainly wouldn't weigh 1600kgs but I suppose different people like different things.

[ORD]

cerb4.5lee said:

This is where I always struggle with this type of car to be honest, if I wanted a car to take onto a track it certainly wouldn't weigh 1600kgs but I suppose different people like different things.

It is an aesthetic. It's not actually meant to be used on track; it is meant to look like it might be.

[Sam All]

ORD said:

It is an aesthetic. It's not actually meant to be used on track; it is meant to look like it might be.

Good summary

[EnglishTony]

I put orange wheels on my Gran Turismo cars so I really can't bh about BMW doing it. Matt grey is nice too. As is the orange roll cage.

It'll be worth the money right up to the point that somebody wraps their 420 in the same colour, adds a spoiler, swops the badge on the back and paints the wheels orange.

[ZX10R NIN]

Sam All said:

ORD said:

It is an aesthetic. It's not actually meant to be used on track; it is meant to look like it might be.

Good summary

A bit like the GT3 & GT3 RS Nismo GT-R GT8 etc you can use them on the track but 99% won't, they'll be investment cars but a lap time of 7.27 around the ring isn't to be sniffed at that's MP4-12C/997 4.0 GT3 RS territory after all.

[Centurion07]

£120K?!

[Sam All]

ZX10R NIN said:

A bit like the GT3 & GT3 RS Nismo GT-R GT8 etc you can use them on the track but 99% won't, they'll be investment cars but a lap time of 7.27 around the ring isn't to be sniffed at that's MP4-12C/997 4.0 GT3 RS territory after all.

Fair point - it is not the car, but the market that influences use

In the yesteryears £120k RSs pounded the tracks all the time. I suppose the GT4 type of value that has picked up the mantle.

Edited by Sam All on Thursday 21st April 22:51

[cerb4.5lee]

Sam All said:

ORD said:

It is an aesthetic. It's not actually meant to be used on track; it is meant to look like it might be.

Good summary

Agree and it could be argued that the whole car is pretty pointless when all said and done, the stock M4 does the everyday thing well enough as it is...so no real need to make a car that looks like its fit for the track but actually really isn't.

I always thought similar with the E46 M3 CSL too.

[ZX10R NIN]

Sam All said:

ZX10R NIN said:

A bit like the GT3 & GT3 RS Nismo GT-R GT8 etc you can use them on the track but 99% won't, they'll be investment cars but a lap time of 7.27 around the ring isn't to be sniffed at that's MP4-12C/997 4.0 GT3 RS territory after all.

Fair point - it is not the car, but the market that influences use

In the yesteryears £120k RSs pounded the tracks all the time. I suppose the GT4 type of value that has picked up the mantle.

So the car is fit for purpose but the people that buy it aren't or don't want to use it for what it's been designed for, GT4's are at around 100k for a 16 plate & they lap the ring in 7.42's so 20k to go 17 seconds a lap quicker doesn't sound like a bad exchange (you could always powder coat the wheels charcoal grey) to me.

I wonder is it a case of the BMW badge hitting a perceived price ceiling rather than the talents of the car being good enough?

As a side bar no one rated the CSL & they're now between 50-70k for a decent one.

When you compare the closest lap times with the cost of the cars as you can buy them today 120k seems fair money.

Nismo GT-R 140k 7.08 Ring Lap time
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

991 GT3 RS 250k 7.20
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

997 4.0 GT3 RS 280k 7.27
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

997 3.8 GT3 RS 200k 7.33
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

991 GT3 130k 7.25
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

MP4-12C 110k 7.28
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

991 Turbo S 150k New 7.26

GT-R 75k New 7.26
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

I'm far from being a F30 M3/4 fan after having one & selling it, I just didn't get on with it except when really gunning it but I always thought there was potential in the car & in the GTS they seem to have unlocked it as well as making the whole experience that bit more special.

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Friday 22 April 07:40

[cozmcrae]

you'd think if you were paying some horrendous amount for it they could make it a bit lighter. Its a proper fat arse car.