RE: BMW M4 GTS: Review

[arkenphel]

Foodhoover said:

Water injection has a secondary effect other than cooling, when vapourised (at about atmospheric pressure) water has a expansion ratio of over a thousand, now to be fair you can expect a significantly higher pressure in the combustion phase but even at 120 barg ( a reasonable value based on an intial compression ratio in the turbos of 1.5:1 (8.8 psi)and a compression ratio in the cylinder of 10.2:1 ) and a decently efficient combustion (75% expansion) the water will boost the pressure in the combustion to over 140 barg (daves back of envelope thermodynamic sums, probably worth a check) and this will increase the impulse on the piston. All good.

This is not the only time that this sort of thing has been done.
Early transatlantic B707's and DC-8's did not really have enough thrust on three engines (allowing for a safety margin on engine failure at take off) on Jet Fuel alone, so a water (or water methanol mix) was injected into the tail pipe (or later ahead of the LP Turbine) to add more thrust (and improve the thermal efficiency) of the Pratt and Whitney JT-3C's. So they were part steam powered aircraft!

Now we have a part steam powered sports car, excellent.
James Watt would have been proud.

Only post worth reading on this thread so far.

[j_s14a]

Without a doubt the worst factory alloy wheels of all time. Where did it all go wrong? One of this cars predecessors had some of the nicest stock alloys of all time

[Gorbyrev]

Catatafish said:

kambites said:

Terminator X said:

Had it in my Spec C Impreza 10 years ago!

TX.

Water injection on an Impreza? Not OEM I assume.

Yes it was OEM, but japanese market only...

Seem to remember the nice people at Litchfield put it on their Type 25 too.

[981C]

Apart from the obvious advantage of rarity and consequently value, you can make your own M4 GTS using higher quality race gear for less than £15K. Most of the cosmetic and interior upgrades have come from the M Performance Catalogue.

[Sam All]

981C said:

Apart from the obvious advantage of rarity and consequently value, you can make your own M4 GTS using higher quality race gear for less than £15K. Most of the cosmetic and interior upgrades have come from the M Performance Catalogue.

Not confident that is true - be helpful to list how the M4 is different from the M4GTS.

[981C]

Also, everyone quotes the M4s 'ring time as official - it's not, but the M4 GTS' is. Who knows what the M4 would do in the hands of BMW.

I'm pretty confident the wider Cup 2 tyres alone would give you 10 sec.

[981C]

Sam All said:

981C said:

Apart from the obvious advantage of rarity and consequently value, you can make your own M4 GTS using higher quality race gear for less than £15K. Most of the cosmetic and interior upgrades have come from the M Performance Catalogue.

Not confident that is true - be helpful to list how the M4 is different from the M4GTS.

Not sure, but £15k gets you:

Titanium Exhaust
Ohlins or JRZ corner balanced race setup
JB4 or equivalent (550PS)
Cup 2 Tyres
Carbon lip, diffuser and/or spoiler, black grilles, side markers and carbon mirrors
Might not quite get the bucket seats in, but...

[Wills2]

Sam All said:

Not confident that is true - be helpful to list how the M4 is different from the M4GTS.

Engine•3.0L Turbo 6 Cylinder (S55)
•493 bHP (500 HP) (16% increase over standard M4) @ 6250 RPM
•442 lb-ft torque (10% increase over standard M4) @ 4000-5500 RPM
•6.5 lbs/hp weight-to-power ratio
•0-60 mph: 3.7 sec
•Top speed: 189.5 mph (governed)
•Water Injection System for enhanced cooling

Water Injection System•First in a production road car
•Achieves similar levels of cooling found in the standard M4
•Water injected as fine spray into intake manifold where it evaporates, lowering intake air temperature (by additional 80° F) and reducing final compression temperature in combustion chamber, thus minimizing risk of knock and allowing higher boost pressure and advanced spark timing.
•3 water injectors in the intake plenum chamber each supplying water to 2 cylinders, for uniform distribution.
•1.3 gallon water tank, water pump, sensors, valves all housed in trunk underfloor
•Pump supplies water to injectors at approximately 145 psi.
•Water injection quantity varies depending on load, engine speed and temperature, keeping water consumption to a minimum.
•Maintenance free except for top ups
•The BMW M water injection system is equipped with a sophisticated self-diagnosis system. If the water tank runs dry, or in the event of a system malfunction, appropriate measures are taken to protect the engine.
•When engine is turned off, all water in hose system is drained into the tank to prevent system components from icing up.
•Frost-proof water tank
•See full press release below for more technical discussions of the water injection system

Lightweight Design•DIN curb weight of 3329 pounds (ECE curb weight: 3,494 lbs)
•CFRP hood approximately 25% lighter than aluminum hood of standard M4
•Air outlet on hood optimizes airflow and reduces lift at front axle
•CFRP instrument panel support
•Lightweight CFRP rear spoiler wing, attached to trunk by CNC milled aluminum supports - can be set to 3 positions
•CFRP adjustable front splitter lip - can be set in two positions for road or track
•CFRP rear diffuser
•CFRP single-piece driveshaft is even lighter than that of the standard M4
•Bucket-style M sports seats in Alcantara (including lightweight backrests with cut-outs)
•New, asymmetrically styled lightweight center console (in between seats) shaves around 30% off the weight of corresponding component in standard M4
•Rear seat delete. Area now trimmed in glass-fiber-reinforced plastic (GFRP) with a carbon sandwich bulkhead to the rear
•Door panel trim and rear side panel trim with modified design geometry and special lightweight construction with renewable natural materials reduce weight by 50% compared to standard components
•Door release pull loops replace conventional door handles

Suspension System•Three-way adjustable coilover suspension
•Mechanically adjustable compression and rebound settings, with precise independent adjustment of low-speed and high-speed compression.
•Anti-roll bars and support mounts are matched to the significantly increased engine power

Steering•Adapted to the BMW M4 GTS
•No elastic section in M4 GTS steering column for improved feedback
•Steering torque curve optimized by modifications to the front suspension kinematics and incorporating asymmetric steering support mounts and a motorsport-derived, custom-designed, milled swivel bearing which allows optimized axle geometry for lateral dynamics and steering torque.
•Swivel bearing also allows the use of 9.5 inch wide front wheels
•Front camber set to minus degree setting for increased cornering lateral forces
•Higher damper clamp with the ball joint in the front axle support mount results in substantially increased camber stiffness and provides faster response to lateral forces, which is already enhanced by the wider wheels (19 inch front wheels / 20x10.5 inch rear).

Tires / Wheels•Mixed-size Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires (front: 265/35 R19; rear: 285/30 R20)
•Forged machined-polished M Star (Style 666M) wheels in Acid Orange
•19-inch front wheels (9.5 J x 19) and 20-inch (10.5 J x 20) rear wheels

[Sam All]

That's more like it.

[ZX10R NIN]

Total that little lot up & now you see why it costs double, I also don't see anyone saying anything about the price when you compare it to it's Ring peers as pretty much all are between 30-80+k more with the notable exception of the Nissan GT-R which means either Nissan are selling them to cheap or everyone else is banking some very serious profit margin on these halo models.

So the car is fit for purpose but the people that buy it aren't or don't want to use it for what it's been designed for, GT4's are at around 100k for a 16 plate & they lap the ring in 7.42's so 20k to go 17 seconds a lap quicker doesn't sound like a bad exchange (you could always powder coat the wheels charcoal grey) to me.

Is it badge snobbery that has people reflecting on the price? Also it's not 1600kgs, it will be interesting to see what people say about the Aston Martin GT8 as that's going to be the same weight as the GTS & similar on power it will be interesting to see it's laptime around the ring.

BMW M4 GTS £124,000 LAP TIME 7.27 WEIGHT 1510kgs (all weights are without the additional 75kgs of a driver ballast)

Aston Martin GT8 £165,000 NO TIME 1510kgs

Nismo GT-R £140,000 7.08 1720kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

991 GT3 RS £250,000 7.20 1420kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

997 4.0 GT3 RS £280,000.00 7.27 1360kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

997 3.8 GT3 RS £200,000 7.33 1400kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

991 GT3 £130,000 7.25 1425kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

MP4-12C £110,000 7.28 1434kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

991 Turbo S £150,000 New 7.26 1605kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

997 Turbo S 7.33 1585kgs

GT-R £75,000 New 7.26 1740kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

I'm far from being a F30 M3/4 fan after having one & selling it, I just didn't get on with it except when really gunning it but I always thought there was potential in the car & in the GTS they seem to have unlocked it as well as making the whole experience that bit more special.

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Sunday 24th April 10:48

[Evolved]

Kawasicki said:

this is obviously just my opinion...partly turbo grunt, partly strange rear axle set-up - the rear axle in the M4 behaves a lot like a live axle, the traction potential seems to be very sensitive to bumps. Maybe the rear anti-roll bar is too stiff, maybe the overall damping is too weak, maybe the rebound damping is too strong for the spring rate.

The normal M4 drives a lot like a muscle car....huge grunt, plenty of rear axle moments, the opposite of the previous M3.

Luckily BMW supplied the kit to ease the traction issue.. The accelerator pedal! It's a superb piece of engineering that gives the driver the control to apply the power for traction or slip.

[joedesi]

ZX10R NIN said:

Total that little lot up & now you see why it costs double, I also don't see anyone saying anything about the price when you compare it to it's Ring peers as pretty much all are between 30-80+k more with the notable exception of the Nissan GT-R which means either Nissan are selling them to cheap or everyone else is banking some very serious profit margin on these halo models.

So the car is fit for purpose but the people that buy it aren't or don't want to use it for what it's been designed for, GT4's are at around 100k for a 16 plate & they lap the ring in 7.42's so 20k to go 17 seconds a lap quicker doesn't sound like a bad exchange (you could always powder coat the wheels charcoal grey) to me.

Is it badge snobbery that has people reflecting on the price? Also it's not 1600kgs, it will be interesting to see what people say about the Aston Martin GT8 as that's going to be the same weight as the GTS & similar on power it will be interesting to see it's laptime around the ring.

BMW M4 GTS £124,000 LAP TIME 7.27 WEIGHT 1510kgs (all weights are without the additional 75kgs of a driver ballast)

Aston Martin GT8 £165,000 NO TIME 1510kgs

Nismo GT-R £140,000 7.08 1720kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

991 GT3 RS £250,000 7.20 1420kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

997 4.0 GT3 RS £280,000.00 7.27 1360kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

997 3.8 GT3 RS £200,000 7.33 1400kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

991 GT3 £130,000 7.25 1425kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

MP4-12C £110,000 7.28 1434kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

991 Turbo S £150,000 New 7.26 1605kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

997 Turbo S 7.33 1585kgs

GT-R £75,000 New 7.26 1740kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

I'm far from being a F30 M3/4 fan after having one & selling it, I just didn't get on with it except when really gunning it but I always thought there was potential in the car & in the GTS they seem to have unlocked it as well as making the whole experience that bit more special.

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Sunday 24th April 10:48

Fook me you've got some time on your hands! Great info

Incidentally I'm looking for a 2nd hand f80 M3. What were the main reasons you got rid of it? I'm thinking of getting a manual to bring back some driver involvement..would you recommend it?

[nickfrog]

kambites said:

I suspect many will barely get driven for fear of hurting their value.

Possibly but conversely you see many M3 GTS driven hard at the Ring, I even got a ride in one - the guy was clearly not a speculator. I have no reason to think this one will be any different - besides, it doesn't really matter what other people do with their car, does it ?

[Atmospheric]

Double the price is something you would imagine that would equal to a complete engineering of a car.

This isn't. If they were really serious, there are a number of things which could justify the price.

CSLs also required.

In other words, I'd rather have a Cayman GT4 or a C63S.

[ZX10R NIN]

joedesi said:

ZX10R NIN said:

Total that little lot up & now you see why it costs double, I also don't see anyone saying anything about the price when you compare it to it's Ring peers as pretty much all are between 30-80+k more with the notable exception of the Nissan GT-R which means either Nissan are selling them to cheap or everyone else is banking some very serious profit margin on these halo models.

So the car is fit for purpose but the people that buy it aren't or don't want to use it for what it's been designed for, GT4's are at around 100k for a 16 plate & they lap the ring in 7.42's so 20k to go 17 seconds a lap quicker doesn't sound like a bad exchange (you could always powder coat the wheels charcoal grey) to me.

Is it badge snobbery that has people reflecting on the price? Also it's not 1600kgs, it will be interesting to see what people say about the Aston Martin GT8 as that's going to be the same weight as the GTS & similar on power it will be interesting to see it's laptime around the ring.

BMW M4 GTS £124,000 LAP TIME 7.27 WEIGHT 1510kgs (all weights are without the additional 75kgs of a driver ballast)

Aston Martin GT8 £165,000 NO TIME 1510kgs

Nismo GT-R £140,000 7.08 1720kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

991 GT3 RS £250,000 7.20 1420kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

997 4.0 GT3 RS £280,000.00 7.27 1360kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

997 3.8 GT3 RS £200,000 7.33 1400kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

991 GT3 £130,000 7.25 1425kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

MP4-12C £110,000 7.28 1434kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

991 Turbo S £150,000 New 7.26 1605kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

997 Turbo S 7.33 1585kgs

GT-R £75,000 New 7.26 1740kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

Cayman GT4 £100,00 7.42 1340kgs
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

I'm far from being a F30 M3/4 fan after having one & selling it, I just didn't get on with it except when really gunning it but I always thought there was potential in the car & in the GTS they seem to have unlocked it as well as making the whole experience that bit more special.

Fook me you've got some time on your hands! Great info

Incidentally I'm looking for a 2nd hand f80 M3. What were the main reasons you got rid of it? I'm thinking of getting a manual to bring back some driver involvement..would you recommend it?

The little man wouldn't sleep so had to play him V8 supercars (honestly lol) so made the most of my time.

The M3 was supposed to replace my CLK63 there were some key things I didn't get on with the fake noise & rather rubbish exhaust note was a big one, I half solved this by turning off the speaker & fitting an Akrapovic exhaust it made it better but not great also it didn't feel special at anything below 9/10ths inside it was okay (the seats are great) having the OH D3 at the same time enforced the feeling that the cabin could be made to feel a bit more special, the biggest downside was I still had the 63 & that put a grin on my face on start up.

Traction is an issue but the AC Schnitzer set up apparently goes a long way towards solving this, plus being gentle on the throttle helps. I loved the look of the car & would say go for a test drive as you may find you like it. My brother is an M3 fanboy (having had every model from the E36) but he's keeping his V8 after having my M3 for two weeks he decided it was to flawed, but these are personal opinions you need to try it for yourself & go from there.

I have to say I never tired of the look of the car it a very aggressive looking car it's the rest of the car that let it down.

[AshBurrows]

If you want a ring toy and were serious you'd buy a normal M4 and hand it over to Tom Schirmer with a big bag of money.
I just can't get past this wheels myself. Looks like something rotiform would chuck away after trialing.

[ZX10R NIN]

After spending £124,000 then spending another £400.00 to get the wheels the way I want them, it wouldn't stop me buying the car I want, I like the wheels but can't stand a mat finish.

[epom]

The standard M4 is a decent car. This car is twice the price so you would imagine it is leagues better, and there seems no doubt that it is. This or a GT3?? GT3 for me every time.

[Oz83]

Gorbyrev said:

Catatafish said:

kambites said:

Terminator X said:

Had it in my Spec C Impreza 10 years ago!

TX.

Water injection on an Impreza? Not OEM I assume.

Yes it was OEM, but japanese market only...

Seem to remember the nice people at Litchfield put it on their Type 25 too.

Pretty sure the system on the Impreza simply sprayed cold water onto the exterior of the top mounted intercooler.

Edited by Oz83 on Sunday 24th April 21:58

[Kawasicki]

Evolved said:

Kawasicki said:

this is obviously just my opinion...partly turbo grunt, partly strange rear axle set-up - the rear axle in the M4 behaves a lot like a live axle, the traction potential seems to be very sensitive to bumps. Maybe the rear anti-roll bar is too stiff, maybe the overall damping is too weak, maybe the rebound damping is too strong for the spring rate.

The normal M4 drives a lot like a muscle car....huge grunt, plenty of rear axle moments, the opposite of the previous M3.

Luckily BMW supplied the kit to ease the traction issue.. The accelerator pedal! It's a superb piece of engineering that gives the driver the control to apply the power for traction or slip.

Even better, they supplied a key....another superb piece of engineering that gives the driver the control to start the car or not.