RE: Zenos E10 R: full review

[TheJimi]

Singleseatracer said:

I agree with the first comment, this is such a compromise, a very poor 'race car', an impractical road car, and in my eyes at least, incredibly ugly. Buy a race car and enjoy the complete focus on one task, being fast

You're missing the point of such cars by an order of magnitude.

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Reavenger said:

It sounds like you've got a snake trying to eat a chirping canary in the intake though...

What does the button below the gearstick do?

It's nothing like that in real life! It's very very loud - to the point that on a long trip I did resort to ear plugs.
Below the gearstick is the engine start/stop button. The car is keyless so in and press.

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Porsche911R said:

Think I'll keep my £40k thanks, it looks cheap, it sounds cheap cheap..... and as a drivers toy who wants a turbo ?

£25k maybe as a punt £40k no thanks

The video doesn't do the engine sound justice.
I would have totally agreed with you but I've never really had a performance turbo car (wife mini cooper s doesn't count) and wanted to do something different. It's strangely appealing and exactly what I was looking for.

there is the 25k E10 with no turbo if that's your thing (not slow with circa 250/ton) so you don't have to get a turbo.

[Sid123]

Like many cars of this genre the real thrill is in seeing and hearing it in the flesh and driving the thing for real.
Whilst DT's words do a great job of conveying the whole experience if you actually go and see the car (preferably with the windscreen as it looks better proportioned) and drive it I think you'd come away more enthusiastic than you were when you had only read about it.

[Drummond Baize]

I've seen a couple now on the roads, and they're very eye-catching. I guess they fall into a similar camp to the Caterham, as in drive it to the track, race it, then drive it home. Then drive it to the shops. Then drive it to Cornwall. You get the idea.

Not sure about the turbo though.

[stormcloud123]

Nomad is the answer, I have seen the light (and also driven the E10S).

E10S turbo delivery was a little dull when compared to the SC in my old Atom, but it was certainly a very capable machine, no doubt the R is the same, but faster. If Zenos have made these bullet proof then it really is good value.

I've taken a different route, even get some weatherproofing, eventually.

[SpudLink]

I believe the S and R models are turbocharged for the simple reason that they are standard EcoBoost engines. That should mean they are as reliable as Ford can make them. For a new small British company to establish itself, this has to be an important consideration.

I suppose being turbocharged also gives them a USP in a small but crowded market.

[stormcloud123]

Reliability MUST be priority number one, then make it very good value for what you get. Aim it at people who want a first stab track car, but not a fire breathing monster, then in years to come you'll get people saying "I started out in a Zenos".

All sounds very Caterham.

[Tickle]

Love it, I am not the biggest turbo fan but for fun I imagine this takes some beating.

Fair play Zenos, they seem to be doing something very right in my eyes. I think our paths may cross sometime down the line.

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SpudLink said:

I believe the S and R models are turbocharged for the simple reason that they are standard EcoBoost engines. That should mean they are as reliable as Ford can make them. For a new small British company to establish itself, this has to be an important consideration.

I suppose being turbocharged also gives them a USP in a small but crowded market.

Actually it looks like the Ford Ecoboost is turning out to be the powerplant of choice. The Vuhl, Zenos, and quite a few others are heading this way. In standard tune pushing a 700-800kg car it should be as bullet proof as you can get when you consider it's the same as in the focus RS and 2016 mustang.

[flyingscot68]

I'm really looking forward to trying the E10R, sounds bonkers!

I've got the E10S, had it since last July, covered 6k miles now including a trip from Glasgow to South of France - did a few TD's down there with LOT.
I didn't bother getting the screen, don't get me wrong, it's a bit of a pain if it rains (as it did all the way to Geneva) but if you put your waterproofs and lid on it's really not that bad. We managed to drive all the way back from Orange to Glasgow with no rain and no helmets, fantastic!
I've been a biker all my days so maybe I'm a bit more used to no weather protection

This is the first car like this I've ever owned and it's ticking all the boxes for me.
I wanted something fun to drive both on road and track. On the road it's superb, quick, comfy (very comfy tbh) and very confidence inspiring, great fun.
On track there's no driver aids so you have to be in control and learn to drive without that safety net, it's fantastic fun and I love it.

Well worth a look if you fancy one, the team at the factory are great, very friendly and helpful - I cannot fault their customer service at all.

Cheers

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flyingscot68 said:

I'm really looking forward to trying the E10R, sounds bonkers!

No doubt there!
Don't forget Zenos have an upgrade pack to take the E10S to "R" spec. Not bad pricing either.

flyingscot68 said:

I've got the E10S, had it since last July, covered 6k miles now including a trip from Glasgow to South of France - did a few TD's down there with LOT.
I didn't bother getting the screen, don't get me wrong, it's a bit of a pain if it rains (as it did all the way to Geneva) but if you put your waterproofs and lid on it's really not that bad. We managed to drive all the way back from Orange to Glasgow with no rain and no helmets, fantastic!
I've been a biker all my days so maybe I'm a bit more used to no weather protection

I did do completely screenless with the 211 and it was a case of extremes - it was either the most amazing fun or miserable as sin.
(Incidentally, I can highly recommend wiley-x glasses for screenless driving. They are sealed around the eyes so no dust/wind, impact resistant to .22 calibre, and have a detachable headstrap to hold them securely in place).
My main problem was that with a lid on I was fractionally taller than the Lotus engineers so my head was just above the aeroscreen flow. At motorway speeds it was constant buffeting that made any long journey very very tiring.

I liked the option that Zenos came up with in that the screen is very easy to detach. For day to day driving a screen is nice (and balances the looks of the car) but for track fun its only a case of four bolts, a couple electrical connectors and a friend to help lift it out of the way. Complete time? less than 30 mins tops.

flyingscot68 said:

This is the first car like this I've ever owned and it's ticking all the boxes for me.
I wanted something fun to drive both on road and track. On the road it's superb, quick, comfy (very comfy tbh) and very confidence inspiring, great fun.
On track there's no driver aids so you have to be in control and learn to drive without that safety net, it's fantastic fun and I love it.

Well worth a look if you fancy one, the team at the factory are great, very friendly and helpful - I cannot fault their customer service at all.

Cheers

I agree completely - the engagement from the Zenos team is beyond compare.

[rollo]

I am with the "completely baffled" camp here. When you look at the price of these road-legal track devices against the cost of a second-hand race car, I don't understand why people buy them.

Here's the thing. We bought an old (1979) Sports 2000 racing car a couple of years ago. To see whether it worked, we took it to a GP Silverstone track day to give it a run. We were surrounded by all manner of exotica, including 458 Ferraris (the one-make racers), 800hp Nissans, a BAC Mono and quite a few GT3 911's. Our little Pinto-powered thing (all 135bhp of it) basically rang rings round everything on the day, other than on Hanger Straight.

I have a Ford Transit Custom crew-cab as my daily driver. It doubles up as tow vehicle for racing. The current racer is a Sports 2000 Swift DB2. I have an early-model S8 Audi for high days and holidays. Altogether, including the trailer, my investment is @ £40k. That's less than the price of this Zenos, and I get a better outcome for every situation.

Maybe I'm missing the point? But then, what is the point.......|?

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Buying a dedicated race car is a completely different prospect to a road legal car.
Not everyone wants to drive a tow car for the 350 odd days a year where a race car isn't on track.

By the same logic, why does anybody but any exotic car? As you say, A decent race car will leave even modern exotics looking a bit slow. Then you are only a short jump from asking 'why does anybody but a new car?'

I got quite wet today on the way into work but I guarantee I was having more fun than everybody else who were in there dry euro boxes. Fun is what I wanted, not the best track time and fun is what I've got

[sandys]

Race cars need a different mindset as mentioned by others, they are also not allowed on all track events you might want to do, often limited to test days, or excluded due to noise requirements.

Many race cars the engine life is rated in hours, you could do hours on track in this thing every day and only require an oil change, tyres and brakes.

Beauty of things like this you can just look at the weather, jump in your car and take it to the track any day of the week, no logistics to consider, beyond perhaps a dry bag and of you go.

[flyingscot68]

rollo said:

I am with the "completely baffled" camp here. When you look at the price of these road-legal track devices against the cost of a second-hand race car, I don't understand why people buy them.

Here's the thing. We bought an old (1979) Sports 2000 racing car a couple of years ago. To see whether it worked, we took it to a GP Silverstone track day to give it a run. We were surrounded by all manner of exotica, including 458 Ferraris (the one-make racers), 800hp Nissans, a BAC Mono and quite a few GT3 911's. Our little Pinto-powered thing (all 135bhp of it) basically rang rings round everything on the day, other than on Hanger Straight.

I have a Ford Transit Custom crew-cab as my daily driver. It doubles up as tow vehicle for racing. The current racer is a Sports 2000 Swift DB2. I have an early-model S8 Audi for high days and holidays. Altogether, including the trailer, my investment is @ £40k. That's less than the price of this Zenos, and I get a better outcome for every situation.

Maybe I'm missing the point? But then, what is the point.......|?

Simple - you are missing the point.

Try jumping in your race car with the Mrs, drive over 1100 miles down through France. Spend 5 days there touring around and going over some passes, throw in three trackdays and at the end of it drive home again.
Not possible, and a transit van isn't very appealing.

What you want and what I want are two totally different things, I prefer my set up. A race car just sounds like a PITA.

[dunc_sx]

Singleseatracer said:

I agree with the first comment, this is such a compromise, a very poor 'race car', an impractical road car, and in my eyes at least, incredibly ugly. Buy a race car and enjoy the complete focus on one task, being fast

Anyone that wants a race car can buy one surely, and would do over this as it's not a race car. For someone in the market for a car to use at a track, drive on the road, to work once in a while and take their friends out etc this car is surely a viable option? Among others, more choice is always welcome

I should know better than to bite shouldn't I?

Dunc.

[rollo]

flyingscot68 said:

rollo said:

I am with the "completely baffled" camp here. When you look at the price of these road-legal track devices against the cost of a second-hand race car, I don't understand why people buy them.

Here's the thing. We bought an old (1979) Sports 2000 racing car a couple of years ago. To see whether it worked, we took it to a GP Silverstone track day to give it a run. We were surrounded by all manner of exotica, including 458 Ferraris (the one-make racers), 800hp Nissans, a BAC Mono and quite a few GT3 911's. Our little Pinto-powered thing (all 135bhp of it) basically rang rings round everything on the day, other than on Hanger Straight.

I have a Ford Transit Custom crew-cab as my daily driver. It doubles up as tow vehicle for racing. The current racer is a Sports 2000 Swift DB2. I have an early-model S8 Audi for high days and holidays. Altogether, including the trailer, my investment is @ £40k. That's less than the price of this Zenos, and I get a better outcome for every situation.

Maybe I'm missing the point? But then, what is the point.......|?

Simple - you are missing the point.

Try jumping in your race car with the Mrs, drive over 1100 miles down through France. Spend 5 days there touring around and going over some passes, throw in three trackdays and at the end of it drive home again.
Not possible, and a transit van isn't very appealing.

What you want and what I want are two totally different things, I prefer my set up. A race car just sounds like a PITA.

Ok. I don't claim to have an exclusive on logic and/or common sense. I had a Busa-engined Westfield for a while. No roof, no padding on the seat shells, no windscreen. My wife travelled in it once, from Cambridge to Bedford. She got out of the car, gave me a "look" and never got in it again. If your wife can tolerate that level of discomfort all the way through France and back, then hurrah for her (and you).

It's just as well that we like different things, otherwise we'd all be in the same place, driving the same car etc. I still don't understand why you'd pay that sort of money for something so compromised. Wouldn't an MX5 just do a better job all round?

By the way, I could configure a Sports 2000 for track-day use and you could run it for 5 years without laying a spanner on it, all for £20k. But even I would take the MX5 in that situation.

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rollo said:

Ok. I don't claim to have an exclusive on logic and/or common sense. I had a Busa-engined Westfield for a while. No roof, no padding on the seat shells, no windscreen. My wife travelled in it once, from Cambridge to Bedford. She got out of the car, gave me a "look" and never got in it again. If your wife can tolerate that level of discomfort all the way through France and back, then hurrah for her (and you).

But this isn't a bike engined car - it has comfortable seats (and dare I say, mine are heated) and I did 250 miles in one go without stopping (The only discomfort was the turbo noise was really loud)
Windscreen works great and makes a huge difference as I remember no screen with the 211.

rollo said:

It's just as well that we like different things, otherwise we'd all be in the same place, driving the same car etc. I still don't understand why you'd pay that sort of money for something so compromised. Wouldn't an MX5 just do a better job all round?

By the way, I could configure a Sports 2000 for track-day use and you could run it for 5 years without laying a spanner on it, all for £20k. But even I would take the MX5 in that situation.

oh come on... an MX 5? 500 hp/ton, 60 in 3 or under with 700 kgs?

[rollo]

Hmmm. 500bhp/tonne and 0-60 in under 3! I obviously don't grasp the importance of these fundamental attributes, required to make a car meaningful/desirable/acceptable.....

The Westfield only had 160bhp (in 420kg) and did 0-60 (as most cars will). It took me and my 78-year-old mother (who was as mad as a box of frogs) to Goodwood and back, with only stops for fuel. Perfectly comfortable, stupidly quick, noisy as you like and very, very orange.

But would an MX5 been so disappointing by comparison...?