RE: Aston Martin V8 Vantage GMR Supercharged

RE: Aston Martin V8 Vantage GMR Supercharged

Author
Discussion

leon9191

752 posts

128 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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Andyt25 said:
I get that that is a load of power but 18k is just silly money...........
Its not really though is it, this is a bespoke, high performance, hand installed kit, lets say parts cost circa £10k which is easily believable considering these things don't come off a production line in china!

Leaving £8k in labour which works out at 160hours @ £50/hr.

Small volume engineering works is expensive, but you can save yourself that money by not buying one.....

300bhp/ton

35,152 posts

125 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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leon9191 said:
Andyt25 said:
I get that that is a load of power but 18k is just silly money...........
Its not really though is it, this is a bespoke, high performance, hand installed kit, lets say parts cost circa £10k which is easily believable considering these things don't come off a production line in china!

Leaving £8k in labour which works out at 160hours @ £50/hr.

Small volume engineering works is expensive, but you can save yourself that money by not buying one.....
It has to be a lot of money. There are still small scale car makers that can deliver an entire car for less money.

300bhp/ton

35,152 posts

125 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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ManOpener said:
Different bore and stroke suggests otherwise. I don't even know if the bore spacing is the same never mind the bolt spacing, so think it's pretty unlikely you'll just be able to bolt the head or manifold from one onto the other. Given the clarity of the distinction between them I suggest the onus is on you to demonstrate they're parts-interchangeable rather than me to demonstrate they're not wink

-EDIT

Oops, looks like Max Torque's beaten me to it!
Intakes will normally bolt on regardless of stroke or bore spacing. There would have to be something distinctly different for items like that not to be interchangeable.

soad

29,184 posts

111 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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Evo magazine did a review years ago: Aston Martin Vantage GMR 600 review


SlimJim16v

1,883 posts

78 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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Parts of a supercharger conversion won't total £10k, nor will it take 160 hours to fit.
IMHO, if there's no other work done on the engine, nor clutch or exhaust, it is over the top and you're paying for the badge.

Don't forget leaving out an intercooler is not only easier, but saves even more money on parts and fitting.
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ILoveMondeo

9,611 posts

161 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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ZX10R NIN said:
If you were going to do the suspension upgrades as well wouldn't you grab a slightly tired one? I would as the tired parts are going to come off anyway.

I'd spend 27k & grab something like this:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Good point, if you can find a higher mileage one with interior and body that's not too tatty I suppose. If you're buying for this project of course.

leon9191

752 posts

128 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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SlimJim16v said:
Parts of a supercharger conversion won't total £10k, nor will it take 160 hours to fit.
And yet they charge £18k for them, you think they are making 10 grand a pop profit then.....

SlimJim16v

1,883 posts

78 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
leon9191 said:
And yet they charge £18k for them, you think they are making 10 grand a pop profit then.....
Let's just say a lot.
Also, sticking an extra 200bhp of air into an engine, but not doing anything to help it get out is poor engineering.

thegreenhell

4,762 posts

154 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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SlimJim16v said:
Parts of a supercharger conversion won't total £10k, nor will it take 160 hours to fit.
IMHO, if there's no other work done on the engine, nor clutch or exhaust, it is over the top and you're paying for the badge.

Don't forget leaving out an intercooler is not only easier, but saves even more money on parts and fitting.
You think that installing a water injection system instead of an intercooler saves money?

Also, don't forget to factor in all the hundreds of development hours and other development costs that will have to be amortized in the final price. It's not just a case of parts plus labour for fitting.

Scottie - NW

815 posts

168 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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SlimJim16v said:
Let's just say a lot.
Also, sticking an extra 200bhp of air into an engine, but not doing anything to help it get out is poor engineering.
Plus should you wish to use that extra power you would also need to consider the extra cooling required, when I added 150bhp to an engine I had to use a radiator twice as large and oil cooler etc. Also installed sandwich plate and gauges to monitor oil/water temp and pressure.

Then I had to upgrade the brakes to larger diameter items, new 8 pot callipers and so on.

There is a lot more than just adding extra power.

Neil1300r

4,923 posts

113 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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Briefly looked at this a few years ago. There was only 1 car IIRC converted at the time. Was recommended to have the brake upgrade, and possibly the suspension, which was another 5-8k. Would also need a new, stronger clutch as the existin V8 clutch is a weak point. So all in well over £25k.
Lets not forget the V12V has carbon brakes, updated suspension and a clutch designed for the power.

300bhp/ton

35,152 posts

125 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
SlimJim16v said:
Parts of a supercharger conversion won't total £10k, nor will it take 160 hours to fit.
IMHO, if there's no other work done on the engine, nor clutch or exhaust, it is over the top and you're paying for the badge.

Don't forget leaving out an intercooler is not only easier, but saves even more money on parts and fitting.
You think that installing a water injection system instead of an intercooler saves money?

Also, don't forget to factor in all the hundreds of development hours and other development costs that will have to be amortized in the final price. It's not just a case of parts plus labour for fitting.
Supercharging an engine that is already sold as a supercharged engine (even with the differences unique to the Aston variant), is unlikely to have taken a huge R&D budget or hundreds of hours.

Certainly no more than any other car. And as I posted links earlier showing just a comprehensive kits for Mustangs and Corvettes for a fraction of the price. It sort of proves it can be done a lot cheaper.

AyBee

8,939 posts

137 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
Sounds fun, but I'd probably convince myself that the lack of depreciation on a V12 would offset the loss of a conversion on this, and buy the V12 instead tongue out

SlimJim16v

1,883 posts

78 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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Yes, forgot about the cooling. It was years ago, but I had to have a larger radiator made for my supercharged Capri, the std wasn't enough.

thegreenhell

4,762 posts

154 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
thegreenhell said:
SlimJim16v said:
Parts of a supercharger conversion won't total £10k, nor will it take 160 hours to fit.
IMHO, if there's no other work done on the engine, nor clutch or exhaust, it is over the top and you're paying for the badge.

Don't forget leaving out an intercooler is not only easier, but saves even more money on parts and fitting.
You think that installing a water injection system instead of an intercooler saves money?

Also, don't forget to factor in all the hundreds of development hours and other development costs that will have to be amortized in the final price. It's not just a case of parts plus labour for fitting.
Supercharging an engine that is already sold as a supercharged engine (even with the differences unique to the Aston variant), is unlikely to have taken a huge R&D budget or hundreds of hours.

Certainly no more than any other car. And as I posted links earlier showing just a comprehensive kits for Mustangs and Corvettes for a fraction of the price. It sort of proves it can be done a lot cheaper.
How big do you think is the market for this Aston Martin kit compared to that for Mustangs or Corvettes? Have you ever heard of economies of scale?

AshBurrows

1,719 posts

97 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
I'm surprised that people think this is expensive. A S54 supercharger with fitting/mapping and no water injection will still see you into 5 figures. And as pointed out this is very low volume, presumably more complex manifold etc. Seems pretty good to me. Laughable to talk about not getting your money back when you sell, what if everyone who spent £100k on the car on release thought the same way? There's more to life than residuals.

ManOpener

4,021 posts

104 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
Supercharging an engine that is already sold as a supercharged engine (even with the differences unique to the Aston variant), is unlikely to have taken a huge R&D budget or hundreds of hours.
I don't buy the logic in this at all, even ignoring the fact you're so laughably oblivious to the fact they're not really the same engine in any discernible way so the idea that the engine in the Aston was ever "sold as...supercharged" is simply false. It's not like supercharger kits for the BMW M54B30 and S54B32 are interchangeable.

I can't think of a single modern engine family where swapping forced induction components from one model to a naturally aspirated derivative with different displacement with different blocks, bores, strokes, heads or intakes is actually possible. Can you?

Cerberaherts

1,623 posts

76 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
Supercharging an engine that is already sold as a supercharged engine (even with the differences unique to the Aston variant), is unlikely to have taken a huge R&D budget or hundreds of hours.

Certainly no more than any other car. And as I posted links earlier showing just a comprehensive kits for Mustangs and Corvettes for a fraction of the price. It sort of proves it can be done a lot cheaper.
1. It's a very very different engine to the jag supercharged unit.
2. Comparing a bespoke fitted system that you have to stand by if something goes wrong requires a hell of a lot of hours of R&D, unlike the generic kits available for the yank lumps.
3. Of course they are going to make a half-decent margin on them, otherwise what's the point in doing it? It's called business.

Sitting on an Internet forum repeatedly saying it's too expensive doesn't make it too expensive....

300bhp/ton

35,152 posts

125 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
ManOpener said:
I don't buy the logic in this at all, even ignoring the fact you're so laughably oblivious to the fact they're not really the same engine in any discernible way so the idea that the engine in the Aston was ever "sold as...supercharged" is simply false. It's not like supercharger kits for the BMW M54B30 and S54B32 are interchangeable.

I can't think of a single modern engine family where swapping forced induction components from one model to a naturally aspirated derivative with different displacement with different blocks, bores, strokes, heads or intakes is actually possible. Can you?
Ford Mod engines...

There is also a company in the UK that makes and adapter to fit the Roots blower from an R53 MINI to fit a classic Mini and A Series, as a 'bolt on' kit. So that's a completely different engine.


Re: the Aston AJ's. Can anyone confirm or deny if things like the intake manifold are universal fitting?

I'm not saying they aren't different. Although from a production point of view, cars often do share design and components.

For example, I have an LS6 intake manifold on my LS1 engine. But an LQ9 intake or LS7 could be used.

And the LS engines are quite interchangeable. Ls9 supercharger on an older LS motor:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/1183210...

Max_Torque

12,845 posts

152 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
ManOpener said:
Re: the Aston AJ's. Can anyone confirm or deny if things like the intake manifold are universal fitting?
Did you miss my earlier post or simply fail to remember what it said???

The AJ42 and AM05 share pretty much nothing. iirc, they share a few fasteners, and that's about it! You can bolt any jag intake / exhaust bits on, because the heads are completely different (intake / exhaust ports are in different places and different sizes / orientations) iirc, cylinder head botl spacing IS the carried over, but cooling passages are different, so head gasket is different, and you can't fit any of the jags cam train to the aston)

( And btw, i was on the team who designed and developed the car/engine way back in 2001 and then again in '03 (it was started before the DB9, but shelved for a while to allow the db9 dev to be finished!)