RE: Mercedes-AMG C43/63: Driven
Discussion
Ok, different question, do you think Merc made it heavier for shirts and giggles?
It's a 500 hp cabrio, i.e.it's not a coupe. They have to add a motorised/hydraulic roof mechanism, chassis stiffeners, roll over protection, etc. It can't be a mean feat delivering that power (torque) without the whole thing twisting up and generally being a crap driving experience. Anyone who has driven earlier (lighter) 4 seat convertibles, say, like the old V8 RS4 will know how unrefined they can be. To a luxury convertible in today's market it has to meet market expectations. This needs extra bits. Most of the extra bits are made from metal, so it's going to add quite a lot of weight. What I don't get is why that's not glaringly obvious.
It's a 500 hp cabrio, i.e.it's not a coupe. They have to add a motorised/hydraulic roof mechanism, chassis stiffeners, roll over protection, etc. It can't be a mean feat delivering that power (torque) without the whole thing twisting up and generally being a crap driving experience. Anyone who has driven earlier (lighter) 4 seat convertibles, say, like the old V8 RS4 will know how unrefined they can be. To a luxury convertible in today's market it has to meet market expectations. This needs extra bits. Most of the extra bits are made from metal, so it's going to add quite a lot of weight. What I don't get is why that's not glaringly obvious.
GT119 said:
Ok, different question, do you think Merc made it heavier for shirts and giggles?
It's a 500 hp cabrio, i.e.it's not a coupe. They have to add a motorised/hydraulic roof mechanism, chassis stiffeners, roll over protection, etc. It can't be a mean feat delivering that power (torque) without the whole thing twisting up and generally being a crap driving experience. Anyone who has driven earlier (lighter) 4 seat convertibles, say, like the old V8 RS4 will know how unrefined they can be. To a luxury convertible in today's market it has to meet market expectations. This needs extra bits. Most of the extra bits are made from metal, so it's going to add quite a lot of weight. What I don't get is why that's not glaringly obvious.
There may be bits which they could have made lighter, either by redesigning the part or by using a different material. But they didn't. Maybe because consumers just blindly accept that near two tonnes out of a near mid size car is part and parcel of 'luxury'?It's a 500 hp cabrio, i.e.it's not a coupe. They have to add a motorised/hydraulic roof mechanism, chassis stiffeners, roll over protection, etc. It can't be a mean feat delivering that power (torque) without the whole thing twisting up and generally being a crap driving experience. Anyone who has driven earlier (lighter) 4 seat convertibles, say, like the old V8 RS4 will know how unrefined they can be. To a luxury convertible in today's market it has to meet market expectations. This needs extra bits. Most of the extra bits are made from metal, so it's going to add quite a lot of weight. What I don't get is why that's not glaringly obvious.
rodericb said:
GT119 said:
Ok, different question, do you think Merc made it heavier for shirts and giggles?
It's a 500 hp cabrio, i.e.it's not a coupe. They have to add a motorised/hydraulic roof mechanism, chassis stiffeners, roll over protection, etc. It can't be a mean feat delivering that power (torque) without the whole thing twisting up and generally being a crap driving experience. Anyone who has driven earlier (lighter) 4 seat convertibles, say, like the old V8 RS4 will know how unrefined they can be. To a luxury convertible in today's market it has to meet market expectations. This needs extra bits. Most of the extra bits are made from metal, so it's going to add quite a lot of weight. What I don't get is why that's not glaringly obvious.
There may be bits which they could have made lighter, either by redesigning the part or by using a different material. But they didn't. Maybe because consumers just blindly accept that near two tonnes out of a near mid size car is part and parcel of 'luxury'?It's a 500 hp cabrio, i.e.it's not a coupe. They have to add a motorised/hydraulic roof mechanism, chassis stiffeners, roll over protection, etc. It can't be a mean feat delivering that power (torque) without the whole thing twisting up and generally being a crap driving experience. Anyone who has driven earlier (lighter) 4 seat convertibles, say, like the old V8 RS4 will know how unrefined they can be. To a luxury convertible in today's market it has to meet market expectations. This needs extra bits. Most of the extra bits are made from metal, so it's going to add quite a lot of weight. What I don't get is why that's not glaringly obvious.
Am I right in thinking they have added 125kg, or about 7%.
So if they make all the extra bits out of carbon fibre or exotic metals what are they going to save, 40 kg?
And then it will cost £93k. Imagine the outrage...
Most of it is either active parts and/or needs to be stiff as well as strong.
Stiffness and strength are not the same thing either, so the choice of mateials is somewhat limited.
The development budget for the convertible was probably in the 10s of millions and tens of thousands of man hours.
All of those experienced people at Merc got it wrong and the few seconds of thought that went into the 'too heavy' comments have shown them the light.
So if they make all the extra bits out of carbon fibre or exotic metals what are they going to save, 40 kg?
And then it will cost £93k. Imagine the outrage...
Most of it is either active parts and/or needs to be stiff as well as strong.
Stiffness and strength are not the same thing either, so the choice of mateials is somewhat limited.
The development budget for the convertible was probably in the 10s of millions and tens of thousands of man hours.
All of those experienced people at Merc got it wrong and the few seconds of thought that went into the 'too heavy' comments have shown them the light.
GT119 said:
Am I right in thinking they have added 125kg, or about 7%.
So if they make all the extra bits out of carbon fibre or exotic metals what are they going to save, 40 kg?
And then it will cost £93k. Imagine the outrage...
Most of it is either active parts and/or needs to be stiff as well as strong.
Stiffness and strength are not the same thing either, so the choice of mateials is somewhat limited.
The development budget for the convertible was probably in the 10s of millions and tens of thousands of man hours.
All of those experienced people at Merc got it wrong and the few seconds of thought that went into the 'too heavy' comments have shown them the light.
This. I thought that the article was very clear that despite the weight the car drove brilliantly. This view is substantiated by other motoring websites. Merc has clearly done an excellent job with this car and it's not like it's the sort of car you'd buy to do track days on where the weight would be an issue in terms of expense to maintain.So if they make all the extra bits out of carbon fibre or exotic metals what are they going to save, 40 kg?
And then it will cost £93k. Imagine the outrage...
Most of it is either active parts and/or needs to be stiff as well as strong.
Stiffness and strength are not the same thing either, so the choice of mateials is somewhat limited.
The development budget for the convertible was probably in the 10s of millions and tens of thousands of man hours.
All of those experienced people at Merc got it wrong and the few seconds of thought that went into the 'too heavy' comments have shown them the light.
GT119 said:
Anyone who has driven earlier (lighter) 4 seat convertibles, say, like the old V8 RS4 will know how unrefined they can be. To a luxury convertible in today's market it has to meet market expectations. This needs extra bits. Most of the extra bits are made from metal, so it's going to add quite a lot of weight.
What a load of b
ks, where did you bet the idea an RS4 cabrio was light weight? Kerb weight 1845kg also the A4 cab was really refined for what it was, especially with the acoustic hood. Maybe not the last thing in dynamics but when you chop the roof off what do you expect, what you lose in handling dynamics you make up with the enjoyment of open top driving.I think that where I'm coming from. They should be applauded for offering what could be the best mainstream high performance 4-seater convertible you can buy. The Bentley, Ferrari, Aston, Maserati offerings are no doubt more exclusive, but they may not actually be any more enjoyable to own, so it may be the best you buy full stop, BMW included. I'm not a Merc fan by any stretch, but this car makes me smile.
Edited to add that this post is in response to J-P's.
Edited to add that this post is in response to J-P's.
Edited by GT119 on Saturday 4th June 11:41
I think that where I'm coming from. They should be applauded for offering what could be the best mainstream high performance 4-seater convertible you can buy. The Bentley, Ferrari, Aston, Maserati offerings are no doubt more exclusive, but they may not actually be any more enjoyable to own, so it may be the best you buy full stop, BMW included. I'm not a Merc fan by any stretch, but this car makes me smile.
Edited to add that this post is in response to J-P's.
Edited to add that this post is in response to J-P's.
Edited by GT119 on Saturday 4th June 11:47
Cupramax said:
GT119 said:
Anyone who has driven earlier (lighter) 4 seat convertibles, say, like the old V8 RS4 will know how unrefined they can be. To a luxury convertible in today's market it has to meet market expectations. This needs extra bits. Most of the extra bits are made from metal, so it's going to add quite a lot of weight.
What a load of bks, where did you bet the idea an RS4 cabrio was light weight? Kerb weight 1845kg also the A4 cab was really refined for what it was, especially with the acoustic hood. Maybe not the last thing in dynamics but when you chop the roof off what do you expect, what you lose in handling dynamics you make up with the enjoyment of open top driving.I like this car a lot and may go for a C43 for the wife (which I'll probably steal every other day). It's more than of a GT than a race car so a being a bit heavy can sometimes add to a premium feel, like the Bentley GT Convertible. With more weight you do need more power and I hope that the C43 has enough shove. I do think that the prices of the M3/4 and C63 are getting ridiculous.I understand the "halo" car concept but £72k!!
GT119 said:
Cupramax said:
GT119 said:
Anyone who has driven earlier (lighter) 4 seat convertibles, say, like the old V8 RS4 will know how unrefined they can be. To a luxury convertible in today's market it has to meet market expectations. This needs extra bits. Most of the extra bits are made from metal, so it's going to add quite a lot of weight.
What a load of bks, where did you bet the idea an RS4 cabrio was light weight? Kerb weight 1845kg also the A4 cab was really refined for what it was, especially with the acoustic hood. Maybe not the last thing in dynamics but when you chop the roof off what do you expect, what you lose in handling dynamics you make up with the enjoyment of open top driving.Its nice but for a Mercedes convertible i'd rather ditch 2 seats and get a SL
As for the weight, i think people get too hung up on these things, i used to think it was a big deal but then drove some heavier cars and found that it didn't make them not enjoyable to drive
If it's nice behind the wheel and you enjoy the driving experience that's all that counts really
As for the weight, i think people get too hung up on these things, i used to think it was a big deal but then drove some heavier cars and found that it didn't make them not enjoyable to drive
If it's nice behind the wheel and you enjoy the driving experience that's all that counts really
GT119 said:
Am I right in thinking they have added 125kg, or about 7%.
So if they make all the extra bits out of carbon fibre or exotic metals what are they going to save, 40 kg?
And then it will cost £93k. Imagine the outrage...
Most of it is either active parts and/or needs to be stiff as well as strong.
Stiffness and strength are not the same thing either, so the choice of mateials is somewhat limited.
The development budget for the convertible was probably in the 10s of millions and tens of thousands of man hours.
All of those experienced people at Merc got it wrong and the few seconds of thought that went into the 'too heavy' comments have shown them the light.
Not saying they got it wrong, neither am I saying it's 'too' heavy. Hell, I'm a fan of Mercs and have owned several in my time! So if they make all the extra bits out of carbon fibre or exotic metals what are they going to save, 40 kg?
And then it will cost £93k. Imagine the outrage...
Most of it is either active parts and/or needs to be stiff as well as strong.
Stiffness and strength are not the same thing either, so the choice of mateials is somewhat limited.
The development budget for the convertible was probably in the 10s of millions and tens of thousands of man hours.
All of those experienced people at Merc got it wrong and the few seconds of thought that went into the 'too heavy' comments have shown them the light.
It's just not much lighter (around 10% in fact) than a car from the same manufacturer that is 20cm longer, 4cm wider and also has a twin-turbo V8 - whichever way you want to cut it, that is a heavy car for its size. I'd have thought the game might have been moved on a little?
Edited by sidesauce on Saturday 4th June 15:21
S class - 2185 kerb weight
C class - 1925, with driver, luggage and nearly full of fuel. So say 1800 kerb weight.
SLK 55 AMG - 1610kg.
This is all in proportion. A non-story on weight here.
It's heavier than its competitors because it is more refined. Different taste, different customers.
C class - 1925, with driver, luggage and nearly full of fuel. So say 1800 kerb weight.
SLK 55 AMG - 1610kg.
This is all in proportion. A non-story on weight here.
It's heavier than its competitors because it is more refined. Different taste, different customers.
sidesauce said:
ot saying they got it wrong, neither am I saying it's 'too' heavy. Hell, I'm a fan of Mercs and have owned several in my time!
It's just not much lighter (around 10% in fact) than a car from the same manufacturer that is 20cm longer, 4cm wider and also has a twin-turbo V8 - whichever way you want to cut it, that is a heavy car for its size. I'd have thought the game might have been moved on a little?
I like percentage comparisons. Using your numbers to calculate the difference in volume between the two, assuming same height and similar profile, it is only about 6% smaller by volume, yet 10% lighter. So they have made it less dense despite the folding roof, surely that means they have moved the game on!It's just not much lighter (around 10% in fact) than a car from the same manufacturer that is 20cm longer, 4cm wider and also has a twin-turbo V8 - whichever way you want to cut it, that is a heavy car for its size. I'd have thought the game might have been moved on a little?
Edited by sidesauce on Saturday 4th June 15:21
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