RE: New TVR - the car

[Moycie]

Michael-i7gna said:

Moycie said:

I tend to think that Gordon Murray Design will build the initial production run. From what I read somewhere, the production equipment is already designed (presumably built soon?) so with small numbers planned for next year, I figured they would build initial production at GMD.

Those were my initial thoughts. Hopefully there will be more information about that at the preview event.

As I said £20k plus on what should be a sorted vehicle to start with....seems a lot for the LE....as other posts have said no details have been provided.....why not?

Can they really deliver for 2017?

I think we will have to wait for the deposit holders preview, expected this summer - where I believe many of these questions will be answered, in particular the specification and price.

[leglessAlex]

Beefmeister said:

Problem is we just don't know as THEY WON'T SODDING WELL TELL ANYONE ANYTHING CONCRETE!!!!

This is the rub, isn't it? I think this is what is helping create doubt, the fact that there are very few (relevant) facts like cost, delivery dates and even the design.


Possibly not that relevant, but this is something that I think inspires confidence in Lotus under Jean-Marc Gales, he has a properly laid out plan that he isn't shy of telling people about.

[Byker28i]

Michael-i7gna said:

As I said £20k plus on what should be a sorted vehicle to start with....seems a lot for the LE....as other posts have said no details have been provided.....why not?

Can they really deliver for 2017?

Les Edgar and the backers on the stand at London had a convincing patter

[swisstoni]

Byker28i said:

Michael-i7gna said:

In all the interviews Edger said the price point would be approx £55k....so I can go £60k. However, he said the LE would have carbon body and chassis [i stream] at no extra cost to standard model. In the interviews he also said that it would have ABS, Cosworth tuned Ford V8 and a manual gear box. Even at £60k price point I would expect a decent interior, alloys etc. So what the hell are they doing to the LE to make it substantially and unapologetically more expensive. £20k plus more expensive for parts bin extras....that buys a lot of leather and performance upgrades.

I put my deposit down expecting, as Edgar had said, an LE with carbon at no extra cost....see this move to substantially more expensive as being a disingenuous move and one that may very well result in a lot of returned deposits. In the past TVR price point played a major point in the decision to buy. Yes the cars had flaws but they worked at that price. If he is moving away from this he will have to find a host of new TVR followers prepared to shell out £80k and compete in an altogether different space.

Why can't the LE be exactly what it was originally touted to be...carbon at no extra cost a special paint job and some one off trim.....simples.

Nope - every conversation I've had with Les Edgar, or been present at has said they are looking at £80K ish for the LE model, the base model will be in the £65K+ range. That will be a standard engine, non carbon tub. LE model will be fully spec'd, unique one off colour, cosworth engine.

I so want this to work and suceed. Lets face it - current owners need something new to buy in a few years time

If they get the 'base model' in at £60somethingK then they will have done the unbelievable and made a modern TVR.
The Griff or Chim 500 was circa £35k in 1995 (I bought a Chimaera that year).
£35k corrected to 2016 values gets you to about £65k.

TVRs weren't a cheap as people think they were. The sports car for Everyman, they were not.

[Playo]

I hope TVR pull it off but listening to Gordon Murray in this interview he mentions the optimum amount of cars produced using the iStream process per year to be 90-150 thousand with 15-20 thousand per year being the lower end, it's possible to go lower by de mechanising the build process but can you make a profit only doing 1500 a year?

https://youtu.be/98VvmRcgM0g

[BJG1]

Or, indeed, 150 a year...

[dvs_dave]

PhillipM said:

fatbutt said:

As for the 10% bit; watch any consumer programme that does a 0 - 60 test. First thing they do is turn the AC off.

Because it uses power. But it certainly isn't using 10% unless it's broken.

Seems the knowledge people have of automotive systems on this discussion has not moved on from the 80's.

These days the AC compressor is commanded by the ECU to disengage itself when full throttle is applied, if it even has a clutch to begin with. Modern AC compressors are often clutchless with variable capacity and adjust to suit the cooling load required. Consequently they only use as much power as they need. That means they only require full power draw (approx. 3kW) when maximum cooling is required. The rest of the time they're pulling very little power to maintain a comfortable temperature.

Anyone saying that having no AC on the new TVR is a good idea is simply delusional, or trying to make out that they're some sort of TVR traditionalist hard man. I would simply not have bought my Tuscan without AC, just not an option. And the standard retorts of "open the window or take the roof off you softie" are just silly. What if it's raining, or it's just too hot out in the sun? AC is not just for cooling (in what is a swelteringly hot cabin without), but also for dehumidifying (i.e. demisting) purposes. A feature very much in need in the UK, even if you're a TVR hardman.

[RichB]

dvs_dave said:

...And the standard retorts of "open the window or take the roof off you softie" are just silly..

Of course they're silly, I was feeling silly when I said it. I wouldn't' buy a TVR without AC indeed I rather wish I'd spec'd it on my Griff when I bought it.

[DonkeyApple]

RichB said:

dvs_dave said:

...And the standard retorts of "open the window or take the roof off you softie" are just silly..

Of course they're silly, I was feeling silly when I said it. I wouldn't' buy a TVR without AC indeed I rather wish I'd spec'd it on my Griff when I bought it.

Not sure you could spec AC and Gold Medallion together though.

[RichB]

I heard a Les Edgar gold medallion in a leather presentation box is part of the hand over package for the LE edition cars.

[dvs_dave]

TooMany2cvs said:

Sarcastic, not arsey, if you don't mind.

Honestly, a satnav is NOT essential. FAR from it. We used to have one shared in the office - Garmin, IIRC - it was, frankly, st. I gave up using it after a few trips, because it was much more of a pain in the arse than a benefit. As for aircon in a TVR... (and don't even start me on the person who said electric seats were essential...)

Again, quite serious lack of knowledge around modern car systems on display. TVR's own SatNav and in car media is not needed. It's a complete waste of money and will be out of date the moment it's released and be a constant point of contention.

All that's needed is an off the shelf touchscreen head unit that controls the HVAC, with a DAB radio, Bluetooth and Apple CarPlay integration. E.g Ford's Sync system with a TVR skin. That way all the nav and other in car media is handled by the phone so it's always bang up to date, totally customisable and the user interface is always spot on.

It doesn't need to be anything more than this and solves virtually every problem you have with modern in car media interfaces being crap, and being almost immediately obsolete the day they're released.

Or if they really can't afford an OEM version, then Pioneer, Alpine and the like do some nice all in one double din units for a few hundred quid. Although they'd need to put some effort into making it look like an integrated unit with a proper screen surround etc.
Alpine

Pioneer

Edited by dvs_dave on Thursday 9th June 17:43

[DonkeyApple]

RichB said:

I heard a Les Edgar gold medallion in a leather presentation box is part of the hand over package for the LE edition cars.

Would be amusing if that was the 'special item' he was referring to. Almost worth then doing it for the PR.

[British Beef]

Something that amazes me with all modern cars is that along with cup holders there are not universal mobile phone holders (with charging points) that pops out from the middle of the dashboard, to be used as Sat nav, music control etc etc.

The range of sizes of mobile phones needs to be allowed for and both apple and android charging points. That would actually be a useful, and relatively easy to integrate into dashboard, like these neat fold out cup holders.

Yet no car builders do it, instead we get electric seats with 300 different adjustments!!

[RichB]

British Beef said:

... universal mobile phone holders (with charging points)...

But phones are not universal

[feef]

RichB said:

British Beef said:

... universal mobile phone holders (with charging points)...

But phones are not universal

it would be easy enough to provide a universal, adjustable cradle and power point, with a phone-specific adapter to fit into the charging point, whether that's straight into the phone or a short wire to reach the socket. OR sell phone specific cradles as official accessories that fit into the OE fitting

[RichB]

ok

[Axionknight]

feef said:

it would be easy enough to provide a universal, adjustable cradle and power point, with a phone-specific adapter to fit into the charging point, whether that's straight into the phone or a short wire to reach the socket. OR sell phone specific cradles as official accessories that fit into the OE fitting

I really doubt it would be a simple task considering the plethora of mobile phones available. It would either be a complex thing, or crap and half arsed because it has been designed to hold too many different types of mobile.

[DonkeyApple]

feef said:

RichB said:

British Beef said:

... universal mobile phone holders (with charging points)...

But phones are not universal

it would be easy enough to provide a universal, adjustable cradle and power point, with a phone-specific adapter to fit into the charging point, whether that's straight into the phone or a short wire to reach the socket. OR sell phone specific cradles as official accessories that fit into the OE fitting

What British Beef describes is exactly what I have in my TVR. The head unit has no fascia. I simply connect my phone to it and that is utilised as the fascia. It is brilliant but not without flaws.

The primary issue is that companies like iPhone make such third party tech redundant with each new model. However, the solution is for the connection wire to simply be usb at the head unit end so easily upgraded.

But what I've found interesting is that the head unit market has violently moved in the opposite direction in recent years. Instead of heading towards a market where the user's smart phone is the controlling device they have gone down the route of the user's smart phone ceding control to the head unit.

But as DVS points out, the best way for a low volume manufacturer to meet modern expectations is to simply build a double din slot that will take any generic system and apply a bespoke fascia to it. You don't want to be beholden to such a rapidly evolving market as either the car stereo or smart phone market so utilise a set up that simply accommodates all future tech than be clever and have a bespoke system built that will be redundant before it is delivered.

[Ozzie Osmond]

There's a lot to be said for,

• buying cars from people who are good at making cars (10 year realistic life cycle)

and

• buying gadgets from people who are good at making gadgets (3 year realistic life cycle)

[feef]

DonkeyApple said:

feef said:

RichB said:

British Beef said:

... universal mobile phone holders (with charging points)...

But phones are not universal

it would be easy enough to provide a universal, adjustable cradle and power point, with a phone-specific adapter to fit into the charging point, whether that's straight into the phone or a short wire to reach the socket. OR sell phone specific cradles as official accessories that fit into the OE fitting

What British Beef describes is exactly what I have in my TVR. The head unit has no fascia. I simply connect my phone to it and that is utilised as the fascia. It is brilliant but not without flaws.

The primary issue is that companies like iPhone make such third party tech redundant with each new model. However, the solution is for the connection wire to simply be usb at the head unit end so easily upgraded.

But what I've found interesting is that the head unit market has violently moved in the opposite direction in recent years. Instead of heading towards a market where the user's smart phone is the controlling device they have gone down the route of the user's smart phone ceding control to the head unit.

But as DVS points out, the best way for a low volume manufacturer to meet modern expectations is to simply build a double din slot that will take any generic system and apply a bespoke fascia to it. You don't want to be beholden to such a rapidly evolving market as either the car stereo or smart phone market so utilise a set up that simply accommodates all future tech than be clever and have a bespoke system built that will be redundant before it is delivered.

I've taken it a step further in my MX5. I've lost the head unit altogether and now just have an on/off switch, input select, volume control and a phone cradle. The phone works as a music player and if I need to listen to the radio (which I rarely do) I can stream it.