RE: Porsche 718 Cayman S: Review

[JackReacher]

Terrible wheels

[stephen300o]

Looks good, keep making the engine smaller and more efficient add some small motors, getting there. And continuing to look better every generation, much better looking than the 911, who'd have thought that whe the ugly Boxster fiirst showed up, it didn't even know which way it was facing haha, each generation it has continued to get better looking as the 911 gets more bloated. Eventually get shot of it at last.

[edo]

Dan Trent said:

edo said:

PS. PH editors may want to check your copy.. Base car is a carrera engine withOUT a couple of cylinders....

Ahem. Correct cylinder count reinstated!

Thanks!

Dan

[Black S2K]

kambites said:

Reg Local said:

Numb? There were plenty of descriptive terms which sprang to mind whilst driving it and "numb" certainly wasn't one of them. In my opinion it was an extremely lively and responsive sports car. Of course it's not for everyone, but driver involvement and response are first class for a car of this type.

I suppose different people have different priorities and different expectations of what a sportscar should deliver. I liked the 986 a lot but the 987 was a serious step downhill for me and the 981 a further step backwards again. It sounds like this is yet another step in that same direction which is probably a good thing for Porsche because that's clearly what people want, but it's not my sort of car anymore.

I think the next generation has potential - assuming they drop the sixes completely they should be able to repackage a bit and end up with a shorter, lighter, more responsive car. I have no problem with the number of cylinders (obviously or I wouldn't drive what I drive) and indeed I think in the long run it'll probably result in a better car.

ETA: It'll be interesting to see if they stick with just a four-pot in the next generation or go hybrid.

Edited by kambites on Monday 11th July 08:50

I thought it was just me!

That idea of re-creating a 986-sized car (I believe the F4 entry-level car was where the whole project started decades ago!) is a promising one.

[HeMightBeBanned]

Reg Local said:

Handling-wise, the lighter weight of the engine probably makes a difference

But overall, the 718 turbo cars are heavier than their 6-cylinder predecessors so is the 4-cyl engine actually any lighter than the 6-cyl?

[hughcam]

Not even an acknowledgement for the Evora 400 even though it might not be as good or better than the new Cayman seems to be an odd omission?

Similar price bracket, same market, forced induction (supercharger) and made in Britain and PH doesnt even acknowledge.

I am usually the last person to say reviews are biased on PH but this one has got me thinking unfortunately.

[Dale487]

kambites said:

Dale487 said:

The only car in the class that I can think of which I might consider instead would be the BMW M2 - but that is very closely related to a £20k hatch & the M3/4 engine sounds like it's got flatulence to me.

The TT RS may have a better engine but I can't think of anything that is better in the Cayman's class - more so if you want a convertible as there is no M2 cabriolet (thank god).

I suppose it depends on what you consider to be its "class". The Cayman seems to sit somewhere between the Evora and Exige in most ways so I'd have thought one or the other would be a competitor for most people (assuming they realise either exists). People often cite the F-type as a competitor to the Cayman/Boxster and that's had very good reviews.

I agree that either Lotus would be justified in a 718 group test but aren't the Toyota engines as soleless as the Porsche flat 4?

I was more thinking about the £40k mark than the £50k S price bracket but the base F-Type is close in price & power to the 718 S - This has a great group test written all over it.

[kambites]

Dale487 said:

I agree that either Lotus would be justified in a 718 group test but aren't the Toyota engines as soleless as the Porsche flat 4?

I've no idea what "soul" means with respect to an engine but I suspect it's different for every person who uses the term. I certainly found the supercharged V6 to be a pleasant enough engine to drive - throttle response is acceptable, it revs freely and there's no noticeable drop off in torque at the top end.

Engine sound isn't really my thing so someone else would have to comment on that. I prefer the supercharged Elise to the V6 Exige anyway and prefer my rattly old K-series to either.

Edited by kambites on Monday 11th July 10:57

[Dan Trent]

hughcam said:

Not even an acknowledgement for the Evora 400 even though it might not be as good or better than the new Cayman seems to be an odd omission?

Similar price bracket, same market, forced induction (supercharger) and made in Britain and PH doesnt even acknowledge.

I am usually the last person to say reviews are biased on PH but this one has got me thinking unfortunately.

Fair point but this is a first drive, not a comparison test so I'll have to beg indulgence for concentrating on the Cayman in this instance. Not to say there isn't room to discuss rival product in that context and, you're right, the Evora 400 makes a compelling alternative. But this car as tested is just sub £70K with PCCB, fancy dampers, PTV, carbon seats, etc, etc and the Evora STARTS at £72K before options. There is an overlap there but you're talking a fully loaded Cayman versus a bare bones (all things relative) Evora.

As I say, there's much to discuss with the 718 cars so for a first drive like this we'll tend to look at the car tested in isolation. Further musing, comparison tests and the rest can follow in due course. But as I know from experience it's very easy for a story to get bogged down in comparing numbers; in this instance I wanted to really go into some detail about how this car drives.

Hope that makes some sense. And that's the tactful response to the 'blah, Porsche bias' accusation!

Speaking of which this story has been up some hours yet and nothing from Smilo996!

Cheers,

Dan

[Dale487]

kambites said:

Dale487 said:

I agree that either Lotus would be justified in a 718 group test but aren't the Toyota engines as soleless as the Porsche flat 4?

I've no idea what "soul" means with respect to an engine but I suspect it's different for every person who uses the term. I certainly found the supercharged V6 to be a pleasant enough engine to drive - throttle response is acceptable, it revs freely and there's no noticeable drop off in torque at the top end.

I'm only going from what I've read - as I've not driven either Lotus.

I drove a 981 Cayman GTS & felt it was a better car than the car 991.1 Carrera - but the Cayman does has a standard sports exhaust, so sounded more impressive.

[Jam12321]

Another car that looks like it was updated using a CAD machine with no human interaction at all.

A buddy has been eyeing one of these up for a few months, when i asked him what attracted him to the car he replied:

Interior is sharp looking
0-60 is 5 seconds
Its a porsche

My friend is not a car person and is aware i have posted this. He agrees with me that the he has no intention of buying a sports car, just wants something that is fast and has a nice badge (his words). He lives in a town and i can guarantee he wont go out looking for roads to drive on, the only time that car will stretch its legs will be coming down a slip road or teaching people a lesson at the lights.

Edited by Jam12321 on Monday 11th July 11:09

[matpilch]

JackReacher said:

Terrible wheels

agreed, they're cayenne-like and would still looks massive on that

[Timbola]

Jam12321 said:

My friend is not a car person and is aware i have posted this. He agrees with me that the he has no intention of buying a sports car, just wants something that is fast and has a nice badge (his words). He lives in a town and i can guarantee he wont go out looking for roads to drive on, the only time that car will stretch its legs will be coming down a slip road or teaching people a lesson at the lights.

Well, that's the fantastic thing about buying a mid-engined, rear-wheel drive, low-slung car with an outstanding chassis and excellent driving dynamics, that is also a Porsche.

You get the Badge to satisfy people like your friend here, and you get the aforementioned driving dynamics to satisfy the likes of me. Best of both worlds.

[j90gta]

If I had £67,500 to scratch a Porsche itch I don't think that a 4-cylinder Cayman would do it. That much money would buy an awful lot of 911, with or without turbos!!

[Timbola]

j90gta said:

If I had £67,500 to scratch a Porsche itch I don't think that a 4-cylinder Cayman would do it. That much money would buy an awful lot of 911, with or without turbos!!

Different beasts though.

911 is a rear-engined 4-seater. Cayman is a mid-engined 2-seater.

Not many new MRs around for the money.

[EricE]

j90gta said:

If I had £67,500 to scratch a Porsche itch I don't think that a 4-cylinder Cayman would do it. That much money would buy an awful lot of 911, with or without turbos!!

That's also my conclusion. Too expensive for what it is unless you buy the base model without any options, which IMO defeats the purpose because to me a lot of the everyday Porsche charm comes from options such as full leather, nice seats, decent sound system, et cetera.

The previous 981 was also expensive but at least it had a 911 engine which — thanks to my silly man maths — made it look relatively good value in comparison. I expected a significant price cut with the introduction of the 4-cylinder engine or at least some good-will gestures like PCM Nav as standard equipment.

Timbola said:

Different beasts though.

911 is a rear-engined 4-seater. Cayman is a mid-engined 2-seater.

Not many new MRs around for the money.

Correct but that's about to change. Here's hope for the new Renault Alpine and Audi R6!

[GroundEffect]

HeMightBeBanned said:

Reg Local said:

Handling-wise, the lighter weight of the engine probably makes a difference

But overall, the 718 turbo cars are heavier than their 6-cylinder predecessors so is the 4-cyl engine actually any lighter than the 6-cyl?

I'd put money on the F4 Turbo being heavier, installed (i.e. with charge air coolers etc).

[RacerMike]

So. I took my 987 in for a service the other week and got a 991.2 C4S for the day. I honestly didn't think I'd say this, but I don't think the 718 being a 4 pot is going to be the main issue! The response of the turbo 6 in the 911 just kills it. It's no longer the car it once was, but instead (especially in PDK form) feels like a generic 'sports' car in the same mould as the GTR. OK, it's fecking quick and has peerless traction, but the steering was diabolical with zero feel at all (apart from the occasional bit of torque steer on lock when accelerating) and if you don't look behind you, you honestly could be in a Panamera.

The new cars are great, but they're just not Porsches in the true sense. I'm not being all misty eyed about this. Undoubtably they'll sell them as fast as they can make them, but if you want a genuinely involving, emotive and razor sharp Porsche, go and buy a 997.2 GTS. I was genuinely surprised that driving back from the dealers on the same road in my Cayman S, I felt like I was in the better drivers car....

The 718 will be faster, more capable, cheaper to run and easier to drive, but for £65-75k with a few options, there's no way I could bring myself to buy that over a second hand 981 or 997 which costs similar money. And that's not the old versus new argument. If they offered a six pot NA Cayman again, I'd genuinely consider it. As it is though, I can't see myself putting any money down however 'attractive' the deal is....

Edited by RacerMike on Monday 11th July 12:26

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

They have done but the power/litre they are putting out combined with the packaging and extra cost doesn't make it attractive. Check out the Kawasaki H2

[WojaWabbit]

Jam12321 said:

Another car that looks like it was updated using a CAD machine with no human interaction at all.

A buddy has been eyeing one of these up for a few months, when i asked him what attracted him to the car he replied:

Interior is sharp looking
0-60 is 5 seconds
Its a porsche

My friend is not a car person and is aware i have posted this. He agrees with me that the he has no intention of buying a sports car, just wants something that is fast and has a nice badge (his words). He lives in a town and i can guarantee he wont go out looking for roads to drive on, the only time that car will stretch its legs will be coming down a slip road or teaching people a lesson at the lights.

Standard demographic of Porsche buyers these days. Of all the owners I know, very, very few would go for a drive just for the sake of it. They are predominantly interested in the image, or the attainment of having bought a Porsche. I've even heard members of PCGB saying things like "If you trigger traction control you're going too fast for public roads" and others who think venturing into the red line is a crime punishable by death.