The Best ///M/Barge/General Rant/Look at this/O/T(Vol XVIII)

[Crook]

s m said:

Purple Speedline three-piece wheels and gold brake calipers?


93 Carrera RSR



Interior is interesting

I think that is incredible. Oh to be laughably stinkingly rich.

[Crook]

Here's a funny thing. I was behind a four door (for the Italians, quattroporte) BMW M car. At first I thought it looked a bit odd for a 5 then I realised it was a 3. An M bloody three the size of a house. I exagerate, forgive me. However I thought before I came on here and spouted stuff before finding that it is just my eyes that have shrunk I'd check a few sizes.
My benchmark large car is the Lexus LS400. It is a big car.

Here's a picture.



Not the most flattering of angles but you can see that small is not a word you would use to describe the size of the LS.

Here are the dims: (from Wikipedia)

Wheelbase 2,850 mm
Length 4,996 mm
Width 1,829 mm
Height 1,420–1,435 mm
Curb weight 1,659–1,764 kg

Here's a picture of the new M3



And here are the dims, again from Wikipedia...

Wheelbase 2,812 mm
Length 4,671 mm
Width 1,877 mm
Height 1,430 mm
Curb weight 1,595 kg

It is 32 and a half cms shorter in the body and 76kg lighter than the LS. Those numbers in isolation are not small but when they are the difference between what was a manufacturer's flagship luxury large saloon and the latest iteration what was a manufacturer's small sports saloon then something has gone really badly wrong.

We don't need 'small' cars to be this big.

[Krikkit]

The E30 (around the same time as the LS400) is approx the following:
4,326 mm (170 in) length
1,661 mm (65 in) width
1,400 mm (55 in) height

Weight at most 1368kg

So the newer machine has grown 30cm longer, 25cm wider and 230kg heavier in the last 20 years. Considering all the equipment and features it's gained (not to mention power) that's not that bad.

Safety and technological requirements mean cars have got bigger, and no-one would buy a car that didn't pass a crash test and nothing but seats and a steering wheel as its tech.

[Crook]

Krikkit said:

The E30 (around the same time as the LS400) is approx the following:
4,326 mm (170 in) length
1,661 mm (65 in) width
1,400 mm (55 in) height

Weight at most 1368kg

So the newer machine has grown 30cm longer, 25cm wider and 230kg heavier in the last 20 years. Considering all the equipment and features it's gained (not to mention power) that's not that bad.

Safety and technological requirements mean cars have got bigger, and no-one would buy a car that didn't pass a crash test and nothing but seats and a steering wheel as its tech.

But then they make a 2 series whatever that is smaller yet passes crash regs with the same amount of kit etc.

[Output Flange]

Crook said:

And here are the dims, again from Wikipedia...

Wheelbase 2,812 mm
Length 4,671 mm
Width 1,877 mm
Height 1,430 mm
Curb weight 1,595 kg

Wheelbase 2,625 mm
Length 4,620 mm
Width 1,700 mm
Height 1,415 mm
Curb weight 1,410 kg

No prizes for guessing which car the above stats refer to, but I suppose it's worth noting that it took 30 years for the M3 to become larger in all dimensions than an M5.

[Crook]

I still don't understand why there is this incessant need to make cars constantly larger. I don't ever recall getting into a E30 or 36 or 28 and thinking "this needs to be bigger" The 36 actually feels a little too big to my mind.

The E28 is a perfect size for a mid size saloon. Two adults, three kids, boot full of booze and away you go. If they can get all the safety stuff into a 2 series or a Focus or whatever then I'm sure it can fit into car that size, oh, yes it can, it's the new 3 series...

[Cheburator mk2]

Could it be, that the real margin for car makers is in the add-ons (except finance, Gap Insurance and paint protection )? More add-ons need more space, also, at the stupid prices being charged these days, the customer has to get a feeling of getting value for money. So you pay XXX, but your 3-series is almost the size of an E39, hence you don't feel that ripped off. Lastly, the more I drive in the SE, the more I feel that I actually need a barge as all joy of driving is usually taken out.

[SpeckledJim]

It's so that the new model is 'better' than the outgoing one. 2" more rear legroom and 1" more headroom and 50litres more boot space, etc, can't come from nowhere, so the car has to get bigger.

It's also a competitive situation between brands within a class. A bigger car is a comparative advantage, so if the C-Class is more spacious than the 3 Series, just as if it was faster or more economical, you could expect BMW to react to that in the next generation.

It's easy to 'walk' your models upwards over time, and every now and then, to great fanfare, introduce a new model at the bottom to fill the gap.

[barchetta_boy]

should I spend £1000 putting a CSL bootlid and front bumper on my M3?

My mind's telling me 'no' - but my body, my body's tellin me YES (as R Kelly said)

I have never owned a car that brought out the barry in me like this one.

I'm toying with CSL bumper and bootlid, black side grills, back-ambering, you name it...

[Crook]

SpeckledJim said:

It's so that the new model is 'better' than the outgoing one. 2" more rear legroom and 1" more headroom and 50litres more boot space, etc, can't come from nowhere, so the car has to get bigger.

It's also a competitive situation between brands within a class. A bigger car is a comparative advantage, so if the C-Class is more spacious than the 3 Series, just as if it was faster or more economical, you could expect BMW to react to that in the next generation.

It's easy to 'walk' your models upwards over time, and every now and then, to great fanfare, introduce a new model at the bottom to fill the gap.

[Cheburator mk2]

barchetta_boy said:

should I spend £1000 putting a CSL bootlid and front bumper on my M3?

My mind's telling me 'no' - but my body, my body's tellin me YES (as R Kelly said)

I have never owned a car that brought out the barry in me like this one.

I'm toying with CSL bumper and bootlid, black side grills, back-ambering, you name it...

Yo bruv'- I can sort ya out wiv' some tintz too, while ya at it

WIll swap you a pair of black side grills if you want

[Crook]

But what if "our car is bigger" isn't the main sell?
What about "our car is better?"

I understand that if the competitors change their product in such a way that is marketed as a positive then the rest of the field will invariably do likewise but why?

Being bigger when you already have a bigger car in the range doesn't make sense. Why not simply buy the 5 or the 7? Why is bigger sold as better? I've certainly not got any bigger in the last 20 years, why should my car? It doesn't follow that I need more space.

I'm not trying to be obtuse - I really don't see the logic other than on a very childish level.

[Fezzaman]

I find it funny when many years ago people would say an S-Class/7-series is far too big for family use/daily driving on these roads..... but a new 5 series/E-class is fine purely because it's the 'mid-size' barge even though they're now the size of an old E38 etc

[deadslow]

I drove past a nice Jag XJS yesterday. Its was absolutely tiny, yet, when I had mine, in the day, folks always joked it must be murder to park cos its so big. Times change, waistlines expand.

[TheRocket]

barchetta_boy said:

should I spend £1000 putting a CSL bootlid and front bumper on my M3?

My mind's telling me 'no' - but my body, my body's tellin me YES (as R Kelly said)

I have never owned a car that brought out the barry in me like this one.

I'm toying with CSL bumper and bootlid, black side grills, back-ambering, you name it...

Ambers yes but don't do the rest, does it have a carbon airbox ? if not that would be my only other mod

[barchetta_boy]

OK well the ambers are in the post.

Carbon airbox is on the list along with Porsche brakes, bucket seats and harnesses (necessary for track work).

Also need to sort out a new head unit as it has the radio/cassette sat nav thing with HK audio. Sounds good but no CD / ipod / iphone input.

[ferrisbueller]

barchetta_boy said:

OK well the ambers are in the post.

Carbon airbox is on the list along with Porsche brakes, bucket seats and harnesses (necessary for track work).

Also need to sort out a new head unit as it has the radio/cassette sat nav thing with HK audio. Sounds good but no CD / ipod / iphone input.

Isn't there an input for a CD changer on the back which you can put an iPod adaptor onto?

[SpeckledJim]

Crook said:

But what if "our car is bigger" isn't the main sell?
What about "our car is better?"

I understand that if the competitors change their product in such a way that is marketed as a positive then the rest of the field will invariably do likewise but why?

Being bigger when you already have a bigger car in the range doesn't make sense. Why not simply buy the 5 or the 7? Why is bigger sold as better? I've certainly not got any bigger in the last 20 years, why should my car? It doesn't follow that I need more space.

I'm not trying to be obtuse - I really don't see the logic other than on a very childish level.

Bigger is an important part of better.

Folk want their next car to be better than their current one, and part of that is wanting more space.

But that motivation is very different, and much simpler, than the decision that "one is no longer a 5 Series man - one is now a 7 Series man".

That 5-to-7 upgrade decision, outwith the BIG budgetary step, is also one wrapped up in status, peacocking, embarrassing the boss, upsetting your dad and your wife, worry, worry, worry.

Better for all concerned that the next 5 Series is a bit bigger than the old one, but about the same position in the hierarchy and about the same price.

[braddo]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It's Porsche's Weiss Gold (not sure of the paint code sorry). I don't know if it's exactly the same colour but if you do a google images search, it's Porsche's JRG from the 80s, which Porsche then offered as a wheel colour on the 997.2 GT3 RS.

[bungle]

Itch I need to scratch... Peugeot 106 GTi or Rallye? (S2 varieties). And why?