RE: McLaren to resurrect the F1
Discussion
I would love to see Mclaren's product roadmap/strategy...... why not use the F1 name for the P1 when it was introduced? Now we have a P1 halo car and an F1 super GT which is around 650S performance? Can't make sense of it and it's also quite disappointing. Also why would you give a central driving position to a warm version of the P1 and not give a central position within the P1. It strikes me as completely lost to be honest.
Edited by vz-r_dave on Wednesday 20th July 10:23
Edited by vz-r_dave on Wednesday 20th July 10:24
scubadude said:
What a horrible mistake (if true) a New F1 would have to echo the original- Worlds Best Drivers Car, it would need to dwarf the P1 out of all proportions.
Re-imagining it as a opulent Veyron type vehicle p*sses on their heritage.
Was the F1 really the best "driving" car of it's time though? It was made to be the fastest road car that could be used everyday using the best technology available at that point in time.Re-imagining it as a opulent Veyron type vehicle p*sses on their heritage.
I think the climate for performance cars has changed and so has McLaren. Back then McLaren was a F1 team that was having a go at making a road car, now McLaren automotive is a quickly establishing road car firm so I think it'll be great for them to make their current interpretation of the fastest road car that can be used everyday.
I don't think this car will take anything away from the original, if anything it'll make that car even more iconic.
(It'd be an interesting question to put to Mr Murray on whether he would use the current McLaren engine technology over the BMW V12 if both engines were available when the original was designed.)
Edited by Babw on Wednesday 20th July 10:26
Babw said:
scubadude said:
What a horrible mistake (if true) a New F1 would have to echo the original- Worlds Best Drivers Car, it would need to dwarf the P1 out of all proportions.
Re-imagining it as a opulent Veyron type vehicle p*sses on their heritage.
Was the F1 really the best "driving" car of it's time though? It was made to be the fastest road car that could be used everyday using the best technology available at that point in time.Re-imagining it as a opulent Veyron type vehicle p*sses on their heritage.
I think the climate for performance cars has changed and so has McLaren. Back then McLaren was a F1 team that was having a go at making a road car, now McLaren automotive is a quickly establishing road car firm so I think it'll be great for them to make their current interpretation of the fastest road car that can be used everyday.
I don't think this car will take anything away from the original, if anything it'll make that car even more iconic.
(Ignoring any McLaren aspect)
I don't understand why more manufacturers don't go for a staggered 3 abreast layout with a central driver.
Chuck in some sort of dipped-beam adjustment (from left to right - don't Porsche do something like this?) and you have a car which can be easily sold in any market.
The greatest change necessary would be changing the toe-in to compensate for road camber.
It need not be confined to sports cars. Six-seater family car with optimum weight distribution (passenger wise) and plenty of space, plus no need for any adjustment for driving anywhere in the world...
Yes please.
I don't understand why more manufacturers don't go for a staggered 3 abreast layout with a central driver.
Chuck in some sort of dipped-beam adjustment (from left to right - don't Porsche do something like this?) and you have a car which can be easily sold in any market.
The greatest change necessary would be changing the toe-in to compensate for road camber.
It need not be confined to sports cars. Six-seater family car with optimum weight distribution (passenger wise) and plenty of space, plus no need for any adjustment for driving anywhere in the world...
Yes please.
vz-r_dave said:
Did you miss the 650S performance piece in the article and why a central driving position in a GT and not the P1?
I did miss that actually but McLaren have a reliable 1000hp drivetrain so if the market/demand arises I don't see why they couldn't make a purely road car alternative to the P1.Babw said:
vz-r_dave said:
Did you miss the 650S performance piece in the article and why a central driving position in a GT and not the P1?
I did miss that actually but McLaren have a reliable 1000hp drivetrain so if the market/demand arises I don't see why they couldn't make a purely road car alternative to the P1.Evilex said:
(Ignoring any McLaren aspect)
I don't understand why more manufacturers don't go for a staggered 3 abreast layout with a central driver.
Chuck in some sort of dipped-beam adjustment (from left to right - don't Porsche do something like this?) and you have a car which can be easily sold in any market.
The greatest change necessary would be changing the toe-in to compensate for road camber.
It need not be confined to sports cars. Six-seater family car with optimum weight distribution (passenger wise) and plenty of space, plus no need for any adjustment for driving anywhere in the world...
Yes please.
This.I don't understand why more manufacturers don't go for a staggered 3 abreast layout with a central driver.
Chuck in some sort of dipped-beam adjustment (from left to right - don't Porsche do something like this?) and you have a car which can be easily sold in any market.
The greatest change necessary would be changing the toe-in to compensate for road camber.
It need not be confined to sports cars. Six-seater family car with optimum weight distribution (passenger wise) and plenty of space, plus no need for any adjustment for driving anywhere in the world...
Yes please.
Much better idea than a 2+2 layout in which you can rarely fit people in the +2. So it would be a bit of a scramble into the central seat but I'd put up with that.
don't really get this. it's over twice the cost of a P1 and 3 times the cost of a 675 and slower than both.
so that's basically a million quid for the interior?
the 3rd seat must be made of solid gold or something
and i should imagine most people who want a gt car would prefer 4 possible seats not 3
so that's basically a million quid for the interior?
the 3rd seat must be made of solid gold or something
and i should imagine most people who want a gt car would prefer 4 possible seats not 3
Evilex said:
(Ignoring any McLaren aspect)
I don't understand why more manufacturers don't go for a staggered 3 abreast layout with a central driver.
Chuck in some sort of dipped-beam adjustment (from left to right - don't Porsche do something like this?) and you have a car which can be easily sold in any market.
The greatest change necessary would be changing the toe-in to compensate for road camber.
It need not be confined to sports cars. Six-seater family car with optimum weight distribution (passenger wise) and plenty of space, plus no need for any adjustment for driving anywhere in the world...
Yes please.
people would struggle with drive thru's, and road toll payment stations I don't understand why more manufacturers don't go for a staggered 3 abreast layout with a central driver.
Chuck in some sort of dipped-beam adjustment (from left to right - don't Porsche do something like this?) and you have a car which can be easily sold in any market.
The greatest change necessary would be changing the toe-in to compensate for road camber.
It need not be confined to sports cars. Six-seater family car with optimum weight distribution (passenger wise) and plenty of space, plus no need for any adjustment for driving anywhere in the world...
Yes please.
but yes you're absolutely right, especially in the SUV/MPV arena where the central seats could be captain/rotating style units... you'd effectively have slimmer, more attractive Mutipla/HRVs
Sports/hyper car wise, getting in an out would require significant forward planning...
scubadude said:
What a horrible mistake (if true) a New F1 would have to echo the original- Worlds Best Drivers Car, it would need to dwarf the P1 out of all proportions.
Re-imagining it as a opulent Veyron type vehicle p*sses on their heritage.
Firstly I think it looks stunning but then I am unashamedly becoming a bit of a McLaren fan-boy.Re-imagining it as a opulent Veyron type vehicle p*sses on their heritage.
The difficulty which trying to improve on the P1 / F1, and especially 'dwarf the P1 out of all proportions' is that the numbers eventually become academic. McLaren have shown with the 570s that taking a step backwards in technology creates a better drivers car at accessible performance levels, so making a new 'Ultimate Series' McLaren so fast that nobody could ever appreciate it would be pointless. Making it feel 'special' seams a much better route.
The reality (sadly) is that most cars at the P1 / Vayron price level are bought by either collectors to squirrel away for profit, or as trinkets to show off to their equally rich friends. That market wants a bespoke quality of fit and finish becoming of the price as much as it wants robust performance figures. If tapping into that market bankrolls McLarens ability to offer 540c / 570GT cars and still make a healthy profit then happy days, certainly a better option than the SUV path others are forced down IMHO
I think I've finally lost contact with the car industry and realised I am turning into a classic/ old car person.
F1 makes me think- relentless attention to weight and design purity, NA V12, pared back, brilliant packaging, fastest. This is a, no doubt incredible, interior on a turbo V8 mid range supercar built for luxury. I'm sure McLaren wouldn't be positioning it as an F1 mk2, Autocar have jumped on the 3 seat layout.
What the article did for me is remind me of how cars (this and many others) are so blingy and over the top now and aimed at people with a very different aesthetic and bank balance than me!
I'm sure it will be good for British industry and exports but it's made me realise i am way out of touch with current cars- endless driver modes, bling, aggressive designs, 22" wheels, over the over the top design, proliferation of models (3 Series, 4, X3, GC, GT, Touring, What else is there?). And me still re-reading the old mags and fascinated by the old F1, R129 Mercedes, E34 BMWs, all the stuff of my youth like any other generation i guess.
F1 makes me think- relentless attention to weight and design purity, NA V12, pared back, brilliant packaging, fastest. This is a, no doubt incredible, interior on a turbo V8 mid range supercar built for luxury. I'm sure McLaren wouldn't be positioning it as an F1 mk2, Autocar have jumped on the 3 seat layout.
What the article did for me is remind me of how cars (this and many others) are so blingy and over the top now and aimed at people with a very different aesthetic and bank balance than me!
I'm sure it will be good for British industry and exports but it's made me realise i am way out of touch with current cars- endless driver modes, bling, aggressive designs, 22" wheels, over the over the top design, proliferation of models (3 Series, 4, X3, GC, GT, Touring, What else is there?). And me still re-reading the old mags and fascinated by the old F1, R129 Mercedes, E34 BMWs, all the stuff of my youth like any other generation i guess.
Polynesian said:
I think I've finally lost contact with the car industry and realised I am turning into a classic/ old car person.
What the article did for me is remind me of how cars (this and many others) are so blingy and over the top now and aimed at people with a very different aesthetic and bank balance than me!
me too... I almost feel sorry for the younger car enthusiast who believes button pressing, mode selecting, exhaust burble trickery represents 'character'.What the article did for me is remind me of how cars (this and many others) are so blingy and over the top now and aimed at people with a very different aesthetic and bank balance than me!
Or that additional carbon fibre pieces or colour coordinated stitching are a modern substitute for high quality car design/aesthetics...that digital read outs and configurable driver and passenger displays are more important than being directly connected to what the engine, drive train and wheels do.
I think the very idea of what personal transport is, is changing....hence the idea of giving a crap about how something 'feels' through your seat, feet and fingers is replaced by what your brain and ears tell you about simple forward motion...'they're' getting lost in what you can do, and what can be done whilst going from a to b....rather than what's actually happening.
I'm quire sure the millennials will feel the same, but I'm very happy as a driving and car enthusiast to appreciate the older cars of 'my era' where analogue is giving way to digital.
Babw said:
Was the F1 really the best "driving" car of it's time though? It was made to be the fastest road car that could be used everyday using the best technology available at that point in time.
According to owners and people lucky enough to drive one it is still possibly the best drivers car ever made, no electronic nanny, absolute attention to weight, feel, vision, handling and power.IMO the P1 is Not the ultimate possible Drivers car, it is the Fastest possible car we could make using a MP4-12C chassis... when you make the ultimate you do not raid the parts bin first!
Babw said:
I don't think this car will take anything away from the original, if anything it'll make that car even more iconic.
Agreed, but it does weaken a company when they reuse an iconic name on a sub-standard parody, I'm sure we all remember the horrible 80's Mustangs (for example) Wobbly towncar underpinnings with woeful engines in cheap nasty bodies, not quick, not good and not Mustangs, but they used the name to shift them.Say Mclaren F1 and everyone thinks of Murry's (and the worlds first) hypercar?
To reuse the name you would have to apply it to something equally ground breaking IMO or the loss of face would be substantial.
Perhaps it wouldn't have to be the fastest car ever built (as the F1 was) as the Fastest tag is becoming something of a pointless pursuit but surely to inherit the name it would need to be a remarkable vehicle- very light and driver focused, incredible engine and handling, so it needs to be better than the current Mclaren clone range IMO.
Babw said:
(It'd be an interesting question to put to Mr Murray on whether he would use the current McLaren engine technology over the BMW V12 if both engines were available when the original was designed.)
Yes, very interesting to see what he'd think.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff