Novice trying to planning a restoration. How hard can it be?
Discussion
Hey guys,
first of all, some words about myself, I am 24 years old and living in Turkey.
If you want to know how bonkers the Turkish car market is, feel free to join us here
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Me and my brother have set out to have something that we can bond over and do together. And what do two pistonheads come up with? Restore an old car.
Well the thing is, we both are novices when it comes to working on cars. Other than the odd wheel and oil/filter change
That didnt stop us from further investing into the idea emotionally.
So here we are.
What I wanted to ask you guys is what tips do you have for a start? What kind of car to look for, what tools to have from the beginning. We have space in an underground garage to store the car.
Any and every input on these and every other topics is greatly appreciated.
Our goal is to do as much as possible ourselves.
Some of the cars we found and circled are to be found below:
https://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/vasita-klasik-arac...
https://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/vasita-klasik-arac...
https://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/vasita-klasik-arac...
https://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/vasita-klasik-arac...
https://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/vasita-klasik-arac...
first of all, some words about myself, I am 24 years old and living in Turkey.
If you want to know how bonkers the Turkish car market is, feel free to join us here
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Me and my brother have set out to have something that we can bond over and do together. And what do two pistonheads come up with? Restore an old car.
Well the thing is, we both are novices when it comes to working on cars. Other than the odd wheel and oil/filter change
That didnt stop us from further investing into the idea emotionally.
So here we are.
What I wanted to ask you guys is what tips do you have for a start? What kind of car to look for, what tools to have from the beginning. We have space in an underground garage to store the car.
Any and every input on these and every other topics is greatly appreciated.
Our goal is to do as much as possible ourselves.
Some of the cars we found and circled are to be found below:
https://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/vasita-klasik-arac...
https://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/vasita-klasik-arac...
https://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/vasita-klasik-arac...
https://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/vasita-klasik-arac...
https://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/vasita-klasik-arac...
Personally I do not have a workshop or any tools at the moment. I would do the work in the space we have at our houses garage.
That's why I asked what the essentials would be in terms of tools?
I thought about a good kit of spanners, ratchets, a Jack and axle stands for a start.
What's else would come to mind?
Thanks for the tip regarding bodywork vs mechanical work. Will definitely adhere to that.
That's why I asked what the essentials would be in terms of tools?
I thought about a good kit of spanners, ratchets, a Jack and axle stands for a start.
What's else would come to mind?
Thanks for the tip regarding bodywork vs mechanical work. Will definitely adhere to that.
You have to decide whether you have the budget or inclination to pay somebody else to do some of the work. It's likely you're going to need a guy who can weld or spray paint as these are activities which are likely to be impractical in your underground garage.
I would implore you to spend the money to get a half decent car to start with- It's tempting to buy the cheapest example because you're 'going to restore it', but if you pick something which has been involved in a big accident or is severely rusty you may never get close to finishing it and / or it may have little value at the end.
Basically, know your limitations. Mechanical, interior and light bodywork repairs are probably feasible.
Look at your local market and buy a car which is worth restoring- a car which you can add value to. At the same time consider parts supply and affordability.
As the other guy said, mechanical stuff is the easiest to fix as a DIY repairer so a car with mechanical problems has to be the favourite.
Oh and in answer to your question- 'how hard can it be?', it can be very hard. I've spent a year on an old 5-series and it was a functioning car when I started. Life gets in the way. Don't underestimate how much you'll end up spending either.
I would implore you to spend the money to get a half decent car to start with- It's tempting to buy the cheapest example because you're 'going to restore it', but if you pick something which has been involved in a big accident or is severely rusty you may never get close to finishing it and / or it may have little value at the end.
Basically, know your limitations. Mechanical, interior and light bodywork repairs are probably feasible.
Look at your local market and buy a car which is worth restoring- a car which you can add value to. At the same time consider parts supply and affordability.
As the other guy said, mechanical stuff is the easiest to fix as a DIY repairer so a car with mechanical problems has to be the favourite.
Oh and in answer to your question- 'how hard can it be?', it can be very hard. I've spent a year on an old 5-series and it was a functioning car when I started. Life gets in the way. Don't underestimate how much you'll end up spending either.
tektas said:
Personally I do not have a workshop or any tools at the moment. I would do the work in the space we have at our houses garage.
That's why I asked what the essentials would be in terms of tools?
I thought about a good kit of spanners, ratchets, a Jack and axle stands for a start.
What's else would come to mind?
Thanks for the tip regarding bodywork vs mechanical work. Will definitely adhere to that.
Socket set a good one,brake kits,timing light,fire extinguisher first aid kit,safety kit.That's why I asked what the essentials would be in terms of tools?
I thought about a good kit of spanners, ratchets, a Jack and axle stands for a start.
What's else would come to mind?
Thanks for the tip regarding bodywork vs mechanical work. Will definitely adhere to that.
Overalls, gloves,screwdriver kit.
Overalls,ramps,axle stands more tools as you need them for certain jobs that you will come across with time.
Another big factor enthusiastic approach to the work.
Also a radio in the background,kettle,biscuits.
Edited by SEE YA on Wednesday 27th July 16:43
Having restored a few cars... so much to say.
But some basics.
Rust. Big issue. Nothing else compares, so this is the no.1 factor, what you see on the outside is 20% of the size of the problem, and you need skills and equipment to handle this, or else pay someone to do so, so the project cost can escalate to non-viability. Rust free, rust free all the way, if possible, and always, always spend as much more money extra to start off with to buy a rust free/low rust example, as necessary - it never works out otherwise.
Age. Buy an old car. The older, the better. The older, the simpler, and you will be amazed at how complicated a car even from the mid 80's can be in comparison to one from the 70s or earlier.
Before you start... Clean the underside very well, remove all the grime, grease and mud, clean everywhere in fact, makes the job so much easier, so much more pleasant too.
At every stage of dismantling, and even before you start - take lots and lots of photos from every angle especially closeups. Remove an item, take pics of what's underneath. You may be reassembling 10 years later (don't laugh - my current resto started in 2002) - you forget what went where and stuff like the routing of some pipework or wiring, and no, you don't find pictures of everything on the Internet.
Label all wiring, where it came from, etc. Use masking tape, write on it and just stick it to the item, or use string-type tags.
Buy lots of ziplock bags in various sizes. You remove parts of all sizes, bolts, washers, accessories, whatever - you bag them and use permanent marker to write where they belong, and once removed, group them in boxes depending on where they came from e.g. engine, engine bay, suspension, interior, trim, etc.
Be very organised, use an Excel spreadsheet to manage your parts list for purchases. Otherwise you may forget what you already bought... or forget to buy stuff, and have to stall continually during assembly till parts are sourced and received. As soon as a part is removed from the car and a replacement is deemed necessary, put it down immediately. It may take a very long time to source some parts, at the right price particularly, so when it is listed, you can start looking immediately.
Be prepared to automatically replace each and every oil seal, some gaskets, many bearings, etc, even if you don't overhaul the engine, which latter you probably don't want/need to do. And pretty much everything made of rubber, suspension, mounts, etc.
Last but not least - don't attempt to restore "a" car, any car - but one which you have an interest in, a car that is desirable to you. The one thing that runs out well before the money does, in these cases, is enthusiasm, so if you don't start with much, the project is doomed from the start and you'll be selling boxes of bits some years down the line.
Have fun, and be prepared to divorce the project from your brother, it sometimes happens too.
But some basics.
Rust. Big issue. Nothing else compares, so this is the no.1 factor, what you see on the outside is 20% of the size of the problem, and you need skills and equipment to handle this, or else pay someone to do so, so the project cost can escalate to non-viability. Rust free, rust free all the way, if possible, and always, always spend as much more money extra to start off with to buy a rust free/low rust example, as necessary - it never works out otherwise.
Age. Buy an old car. The older, the better. The older, the simpler, and you will be amazed at how complicated a car even from the mid 80's can be in comparison to one from the 70s or earlier.
Before you start... Clean the underside very well, remove all the grime, grease and mud, clean everywhere in fact, makes the job so much easier, so much more pleasant too.
At every stage of dismantling, and even before you start - take lots and lots of photos from every angle especially closeups. Remove an item, take pics of what's underneath. You may be reassembling 10 years later (don't laugh - my current resto started in 2002) - you forget what went where and stuff like the routing of some pipework or wiring, and no, you don't find pictures of everything on the Internet.
Label all wiring, where it came from, etc. Use masking tape, write on it and just stick it to the item, or use string-type tags.
Buy lots of ziplock bags in various sizes. You remove parts of all sizes, bolts, washers, accessories, whatever - you bag them and use permanent marker to write where they belong, and once removed, group them in boxes depending on where they came from e.g. engine, engine bay, suspension, interior, trim, etc.
Be very organised, use an Excel spreadsheet to manage your parts list for purchases. Otherwise you may forget what you already bought... or forget to buy stuff, and have to stall continually during assembly till parts are sourced and received. As soon as a part is removed from the car and a replacement is deemed necessary, put it down immediately. It may take a very long time to source some parts, at the right price particularly, so when it is listed, you can start looking immediately.
Be prepared to automatically replace each and every oil seal, some gaskets, many bearings, etc, even if you don't overhaul the engine, which latter you probably don't want/need to do. And pretty much everything made of rubber, suspension, mounts, etc.
Last but not least - don't attempt to restore "a" car, any car - but one which you have an interest in, a car that is desirable to you. The one thing that runs out well before the money does, in these cases, is enthusiasm, so if you don't start with much, the project is doomed from the start and you'll be selling boxes of bits some years down the line.
Have fun, and be prepared to divorce the project from your brother, it sometimes happens too.
Edited by 996TT02 on Thursday 28th July 08:46
What do you mean by "be prepared to divorce the project from your brother" ? I did not understand that unfortunately.
We will definitely not choose "any" car, as you said there has to be enthusiasm and will to finish it and keep at it.
We will either go with an E21 or E30 3 series or a 5 series of that vintage (E12 /E28)
Mercedes Benz is also possible (114/115/123)
One of these will be a start point.
Our plan is to get acquainted with the mechanical side, get comfortable and gain valuable experience with it.
Long term goal is definitely a 60er Chevy Impala.
We will definitely not choose "any" car, as you said there has to be enthusiasm and will to finish it and keep at it.
We will either go with an E21 or E30 3 series or a 5 series of that vintage (E12 /E28)
Mercedes Benz is also possible (114/115/123)
One of these will be a start point.
Our plan is to get acquainted with the mechanical side, get comfortable and gain valuable experience with it.
Long term goal is definitely a 60er Chevy Impala.
996TT02 said:
Rust. Big issue. Nothing else compares, so this is the no.1 factor, what you see on the outside is 20% of the size of the problem, and you need skills and equipment to handle this, or else pay someone to do so, so the project cost can escalate to non-viability. Rust free, rust free all the way, if possible, and always, always spend as much more money extra to start off with to buy a rust free/low rust example, as necessary - it never works out otherwise.
This, absolutely this! A solid shell is an absolute must! Parts can easily be bought and bolted on but the cost of bodywork can get eye watering! I'd sooner deal with a dead engine than a rotten shell!
bobbo89 said:
996TT02 said:
Rust. Big issue. Nothing else compares, so this is the no.1 factor, what you see on the outside is 20% of the size of the problem, and you need skills and equipment to handle this, or else pay someone to do so, so the project cost can escalate to non-viability. Rust free, rust free all the way, if possible, and always, always spend as much more money extra to start off with to buy a rust free/low rust example, as necessary - it never works out otherwise.
This, absolutely this! A solid shell is an absolute must! Parts can easily be bought and bolted on but the cost of bodywork can get eye watering! I'd sooner deal with a dead engine than a rotten shell!
I am still after two Karmann beetle doors 69.
To use a PH phrase, the answer is always MX5!
Very easy to work on, quite common (although I don't know of numbers in Europe / Turkey) and tons of information and advice out there online.
Perhaps one to start with as they're cheap and simple to work on and see if you and your brother enjoy it? Then sell, if any profit, great, if not then you should make your money back and you can look for a nice E30 to get truly in depth with. My budget always ended up around +40% what I'd anticipated.
I wouldn't touch a car beyond oil and filter change a couple of years back and I've done almost everything there is including installing a turbo kit. No welding yet and I agree with the above comments around rust.
Starated off with a 200pc Halfords toolkit initially and a couple of axle stands. Decent tools are the way forward, nothing worse than manhandling a poor ratchet spanner / handle.
Good luck, it's great fun watching it progress.
Very easy to work on, quite common (although I don't know of numbers in Europe / Turkey) and tons of information and advice out there online.
Perhaps one to start with as they're cheap and simple to work on and see if you and your brother enjoy it? Then sell, if any profit, great, if not then you should make your money back and you can look for a nice E30 to get truly in depth with. My budget always ended up around +40% what I'd anticipated.
I wouldn't touch a car beyond oil and filter change a couple of years back and I've done almost everything there is including installing a turbo kit. No welding yet and I agree with the above comments around rust.
Starated off with a 200pc Halfords toolkit initially and a couple of axle stands. Decent tools are the way forward, nothing worse than manhandling a poor ratchet spanner / handle.
Good luck, it's great fun watching it progress.
This one looks ok to start with
https://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/vasita-klasik-arac...
Bodywork 'looks' ok but that's not to say its hiding something.
But it looks straight and inside is pretty clean inside.
Not sure what the text says or if the 20k kms is the mileage its done.
https://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/vasita-klasik-arac...
Bodywork 'looks' ok but that's not to say its hiding something.
But it looks straight and inside is pretty clean inside.
Not sure what the text says or if the 20k kms is the mileage its done.
The VW is a car which unfortunately never grew on me.. I have no idea why, everyone seems to love them.
I am pretty sure it will be one of the below mentioned model.
E21,E30,E12,E28
Mercedes Benz 114/115/123
as long as its rust free. Thats bullet point number one.
I dont care about the colour, or the condition of the mechanical side (mostly) as long as I find a good clean shell I can start on.
I am pretty sure it will be one of the below mentioned model.
E21,E30,E12,E28
Mercedes Benz 114/115/123
as long as its rust free. Thats bullet point number one.
I dont care about the colour, or the condition of the mechanical side (mostly) as long as I find a good clean shell I can start on.
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