RE: Golf GTI Clubsport S sold out!

[Artey]

Buster73 said:

You sir are living in cloud cuckoo land if you expect otherwise.

http://www.motortrader.com/motor-trader-news/autom...

"I'm sorry I was wrong trying to be a patronising smart ass" will suffice

[Tuvra]

Artey said:

Buster73 said:

You sir are living in cloud cuckoo land if you expect otherwise.

http://www.motortrader.com/motor-trader-news/autom...

"I'm sorry I was wrong trying to be a patronising smart ass" will suffice

Finally someone with sense

The GT4 took the piss, £70k cars selling for £100k, Porsche 911R, £136,000 cars selling for £250-300k I believe.

This happens all the way down the food chain with anything that has a waiting list, even the Focus RS has speculators (including main dealerships) flipping them at £5k more than the RRP. How anyone can think this is acceptable is beyond me

[Gibbonyc]

That's right 200kg saving over my Gold R (dry weight 1285 kg vs 1486. A saving of 30kg over the Clubsport (no rear seats and aluminium sub frame. I took the AC as it's an everyday car for me also, unless it's rising, the semi-slicks won't like it. I'll take the extra 2 tenth a per lap. It would save another 15kg's

[Ozzie Osmond]

Tuvra said:

This happens all the way down the food chain with anything that has a waiting list, even the Focus RS has speculators (including main dealerships) flipping them at £5k more than the RRP. How anyone can think this is acceptable is beyond me

What exactly is your problem with it?

IMO if people are daft enough to want to throw big money at these supposed "limited editions" then so be it. One thing is certain, one high priced limited edition is invariably followed by another.

[Gibbonyc]

Typos, sorry Golf R and raining

[Tuvra]

Ozzie Osmond said:

What exactly is your problem with it?

IMO if people are daft enough to want to throw big money at these supposed "limited editions" then so be it. One thing is certain, one high priced limited edition is invariably followed by another.

I think VW have a responsibility to ensure that these cars are not being passed straight into the trade. There's only 150 of them after all.

Simiarly, how can Ford let Ford main dealers "stock" numerous Focus RS' at £5k over list when there's a 12 month waiting list on them? It just doesn't seem very fair, surely all the cars "stocked" should have been moved straight on to the genuine people waiting on their cars.

[nickfrog]

Tuvra said:

nickfrog said:

Tuvra said:

nickfrog said:

I am pretty sure we'll see a few on track days so it doesn't matter how many have been bought by "speculators", it's a free market economy ! The two are not even incompatible!

It does matter when people use their "contacts" to get them over genuine enthusiasts who may not have the same contacts

What do you mean ? Anything illegal going here you reckon ? If not, again, it's a free market economy. You need to improve the quality of your network if you failed to buy one

Not illegal, morally wrong possibly.

Ah, on the assumption that it's (possibly) morally wrong, whose moral compass do you use ? Yours ?

I find it totally (but subjectively) acceptable as it's the reflection of simple supply and demand economics, prevalent in a free market economy. If a dealer breaks the law, however, and the court rules in favour of the plaintiff (as per the Porsche example) then that's another matter.

What I find immoral is to generalise and assume that laws have been broken just because a car is sold out, without any evidence made available.

PS Ford dealers have nothing to do with Ford. They are (on the whole) independent businesses making their own decisions. Which is good as it prevents price fixing by the manufaxturers too.

Edited by nickfrog on Wednesday 3rd August 14:28

[Tuvra]

nickfrog said:

Ah, on the assumption that it's (possibly) morally wrong, whose moral compass do you use ? Yours ?

I find it totally (but subjectively) acceptable as it's the reflection of simple supply and demand economics, prevalent in a free market economy. If a dealer breaks the law, however, and the court rules in favour of the plaintiff (as per the Porsche example) then that's another matter.

What I find immoral is to generalise and assume that laws have been broken just because a car is sold out, without any evidence made available.

PS Ford dealers have nothing to do with Ford. They are (on the whole) independent businesses making their own decisions. Which is good as it prevents price fixing by the manufaxturers too.

Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on ticket touts?

[DuncB7]

Tuvra said:

I think VW have a responsibility to ensure that these cars are not being passed straight into the trade. There's only 150 of them after all.

Whilst I agree with you to a certain extent, I'm not entirely sure how they would go about legislating against it.

I guess they could carefully select owners from VW owner clubs or similar such as higher end marques do for top models. All things considered, it's just a Golf, does it really need to be controlled as such. I don't think so personally. It'll end up with a good owner eventually, it won't be bought by average Dave to cart his children around, it'll go to an enthusiast.

[nickfrog]

Tuvra said:

nickfrog said:

Ah, on the assumption that it's (possibly) morally wrong, whose moral compass do you use ? Yours ?

I find it totally (but subjectively) acceptable as it's the reflection of simple supply and demand economics, prevalent in a free market economy. If a dealer breaks the law, however, and the court rules in favour of the plaintiff (as per the Porsche example) then that's another matter.

What I find immoral is to generalise and assume that laws have been broken just because a car is sold out, without any evidence made available.

PS Ford dealers have nothing to do with Ford. They are (on the whole) independent businesses making their own decisions. Which is good as it prevents price fixing by the manufaxturers too.

Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on ticket touts?

Are the touts breaking the law ? If not, then I have no opinion as I don't judge other people based on subjective moral criteria. You have made the assumption that "it's the same thing" so we're well into straw man argument territory here.

Out of curiosity, and more crucially, what are your thoughts on a free market economy ?

Edited by nickfrog on Wednesday 3rd August 15:09

[epom]

No surprise really, looks to be a cracker rather than just the usual cosmetic or paying lip service to being a special edition. And even those not so special edition golfs usually sell out quickly.

[ZX10R NIN]

It holds the ring record but not in the form you buy it from VW, it looks like it could be a lot of fun & going by the way Megane Trophy R's are holding their (the only FWD you could actually buy in lap record spec) then the Golf should not only be fun but a very slow depreciator to.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Wednesday 3rd August 15:39

[RemarkLima]

Dave Hedgehog said:

1360 kgs v 1489 kg for the R

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/95342...

So, 129 KG? Quite a far cry from 200kg... It's still an impressive lightening up, but if you say 20KG for back seats and another 40KG for 4wd gubbins? Or would that be more?

[Matt Bird]

Gibbonyc said:

I am lucky enough to have a Clubsport S on the way and I can chime in my opinion on this thread. I’ve been running a manual Golf R for the last 14 months. It rides well on its passive dampers, a good ride/handling balance. has a very slick gearbox (contrary to others) and as fast practicle everyday transport, it’s great. But after a while it’s a bit boring. The reduced sound deadening, proper seats, gaping hole in the back where the seats should be and the pop-bangs should add some much needed theatre to every drive. Combine that with the suspension changes, and 200kg weight saving and I can’t wait. Track day to Spa to be booked.

Excellent news, congrats! Hope you enjoy it.

[SuperchargedVR6]

ZX10R NIN said:

It holds the ring record but not in the form you buy it from VW, it looks like it could be a lot of fun & going by the way Megane Trophy R's are holding their (the only FWD you could actually buy in lap record spec) then the Golf should not only be fun but a very slow depreciator to.

Got any links to the exact spec used on the lap record car?

[giveablondeabone]

FWD, just 2 seats and possibly the most ubiquitous badge there is on its nose....................

There are a LOT of other things I'd be spending my 34k on for my thrills thank you very much

[Lucas Ayde]

WCZ said:

20kg or so max imo

Haldex adds ~130kg so if the removal of seats is even only 20kg then that accounts for 150kg of the stated 200kg saving. Presumably lots of other bits and bobs taken away or made with lighter materials to save the remaining 50kg.

[ZX10R NIN]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

Got any links to the exact spec used on the lap record car?

No but as I understood it the Dampers Roll Cage & some added weight are the only differences, I'm happy to be corrected on that one.

[SuperchargedVR6]

ZX10R NIN said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

Got any links to the exact spec used on the lap record car?

No but as I understood it the Dampers Roll Cage & some added weight are the only differences, I'm happy to be corrected on that one.

I was just interested because I've long held a suspicion some lap record cars are tweaked in terms of power, and slick tyres and the like. Probably different gear ratios as well! We all know a certain car maker like to 'prepare' their demo cars before the media get hold of them

Interesting car though. The ultimate car for die-hard Golf fans, and the ring record is added pub bragging rights.

Edited by SuperchargedVR6 on Wednesday 3rd August 17:32

[ZX10R NIN]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

I was just interested because I've long held a suspicion some lap record cars are tweaked in terms of power, and slick tyres and the like. Probably different gear ratios as well! We all know a certain car maker like to 'prepare' their demo cars before the media get hold of them

Interesting car though. The ultimate car for die-hard Golf fans, and the ring record is added pub bragging rights.

I think that used to happen more often less so now but I've always thought that when they set a record with a pre production model then it had some tweaks that weren't going to be on the production model.