RE: Golf GTI Clubsport S sold out!

[culpz]

These will almost definitely appreciate in value, especially with such low numbers. You just know the moment one crops up for sale it's gonna go for more than the original price it was sold at.

Speaking of price, as stated on here, the Clubsport S actually looks like a bit of a bargain considering its exclusivity and high chance of appreciation in value. I just hope they're not all bought to be stored and sold on.

[Ursicles]

Its a £34k golf ... and there will be another special edition in a yr or 2 with a faster lap record and be billed as 'the ultimate golf (until the next one)'.

I bought a new Gti in 2006 for £21k... cant see how 10yrs later they can charge more than 50% more for the car. Yes im sure it will drive well, but its a very limited audience vehicle.

£34k in about 6 months would get you an M2.

[Dave Hedgehog]

Ursicles said:

£34k in about 6 months would get you an M2.

LMAO, they are currently 5k+ over book with dealers reporting new orders are for 2018! and don't forget the 1m coupe is still selling for list price after 5 years

you can actually buy a dealer demo auto M4 for the same price as an auto M2 (52K)

[MrBarry123]

Wills2 said:

FWD won't help as the weight will shift backwards under a starting start, I would imagine that a 40-100mph run would be a lot closer.

Absolutely but with modern traction control systems, dual-clutch gearboxes (albeit the Clubsport S doesn't have one) and sticky tyres, it's not as much of a problem as it once was. From 40-100mph I'd expect the Clubsport S to be at least level with the R, perhaps actually slightly quicker.

[SidewaysSi]

How much will anyone actually make? A couple of grand? Is it worth it?

[MrBarry123]

SidewaysSi said:

How much will anyone actually make? A couple of grand? Is it worth it?

On this car? I'd expect very little, if anything, however I would expect the residuals to remain strong once the car has depreciated to around the £30k mark. I'd be surprised if it didn't match the Megane Trophy-R's depreciation curve almost exactly.

[vpr]

Ursicles said:

Its a £34k golf ... and there will be another special edition in a yr or 2 with a faster lap record and be billed as 'the ultimate golf (until the next one)'.

I bought a new Gti in 2006 for £21k... cant see how 10yrs later they can charge more than 50% more for the car. Yes im sure it will drive well, but its a very limited audience vehicle.

£34k in about 6 months would get you an M2.

As stated, not a chance. The M2 orders are vast

And regarding the next faster updated Special, it's no different from any other manufacturer although I can't remember the last time VW produced a focused track orientated car and especially in such low volumes

[Tuvra]

Ursicles said:

Its a £34k golf ... and there will be another special edition in a yr or 2 with a faster lap record and be billed as 'the ultimate golf (until the next one)'.

I bought a new Gti in 2006 for £21k... cant see how 10yrs later they can charge more than 50% more for the car. Yes im sure it will drive well, but its a very limited audience vehicle.

£34k in about 6 months would get you an M2.

1. £30k is the ballpark figure for most hot hatches.

2. £21k in 2006 would be £27,500 today, £33k for all the extras and limited production make it good value IMO in comparison.

3. It wouldn't

Look at cars like the R26R & Focus RS500, this will go the same way.....

[SuperchargedVR6]

Lucas Ayde said:

Something that doesn't make sense - claimed 0-62 for both manual and DSG versions of the Clubsport is 6.3s yet the Golf R is quoted as 5.1s Manual / 4.9s DSG. Actually, many testers have found it even faster to sixty.

Yes, the Clubsport is down a bit on horsepower but it is quite a bit lighter too. Does the AWD Haldex vs regular FWD really make that much of a difference? On a dry track I can't see how it boosts the 0-62 by over a second. Maybe the gearing is different?

But the Clubsport S does the 60 sprint in 5.8 seconds, so only 0.7 slower than the manual R.

Given the huge traction deficit (even with VAQ diff), I'd say that's quite impressive.

These newer Golfs switched from Bosch ECUs to very sophisticated Siemens SIMOS ECUs, which have very complex torque modelling and physics strategies. I suspect it will have a FWD modelled map in it, which limits the torque curve accordingly. I reckon a very skilled driver with all of that and TC switched off, could shave a few tenths off, and if it was DSG, another couple lopped off, putting it very close to the Manual R's time.

5 second FWD from a factory car? Who'd have thought it 20 years ago when Clarkson et al were banging on about 200hp being the absolute limit for FWD, pah!

[epom]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Ursicles said:

£34k in about 6 months would get you an M2.

LMAO, they are currently 5k+ over book with dealers reporting new orders are for 2018! and don't forget the 1m coupe is still selling for list price after 5 years

you can actually buy a dealer demo auto M4 for the same price as an auto M2 (52K)

Or better still wait a few years and you will get an M2 cheaper again.

[xjay1337]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

But the Clubsport S does the 60 sprint in 5.8 seconds, so only 0.7 slower than the manual R.

Given the huge traction deficit (even with VAQ diff), I'd say that's quite impressive.

These newer Golfs switched from Bosch ECUs to very sophisticated Siemens SIMOS ECUs, which have very complex torque modelling and physics strategies. I suspect it will have a FWD modelled map in it, which limits the torque curve accordingly. I reckon a very skilled driver with all of that and TC switched off, could shave a few tenths off, and if it was DSG, another couple lopped off, putting it very close to the Manual R's time.

5 second FWD from a factory car? Who'd have thought it 20 years ago when Clarkson et al were banging on about 200hp being the absolute limit for FWD, pah!

I think for road based manual front wheel drive cars with normal tyres 5.5-5.8 is the absolute best you will get.

[Wills2]

epom said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

Ursicles said:

£34k in about 6 months would get you an M2.

LMAO, they are currently 5k+ over book with dealers reporting new orders are for 2018! and don't forget the 1m coupe is still selling for list price after 5 years

you can actually buy a dealer demo auto M4 for the same price as an auto M2 (52K)

Or better still wait a few years and you will get an M2 cheaper again.

Or even better still, just buy what you want today!

[Ozzie Osmond]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

These newer Golfs switched from Bosch ECUs to very sophisticated Siemens SIMOS ECUs, which have very complex torque modelling and physics strategies. I suspect it will have a FWD modelled map in it, which limits the torque curve accordingly.

Perhaps it should be re-named the "Playstation" edition? But you're right, these cars are very dependent upon computer torque management to make them viable on the road.

[vpr]

Not sure why comparisons are being made with the M2 and M4 ect

Horses for courses and they're all lovely cars but I'm getting a Golf because I want a Golf

You can keep your M2 and your M4

[IMI A]

vpr said:

Not sure why comparisons are being made with the M2 and M4 ect

Horses for courses and they're all lovely cars but I'm getting a Golf because I want a Golf

You can keep your M2 and your M4

+1. BMW M series cars have seriously lost their way over the years. From being lightweight normally aspirated road racers to over weight turbo charged barn stormers that play fake engine noise through their speakers. WTF? Truly pathetic.

This GTI is the absolute business. Very desirable for me as a quick sporty hatch to do the mundane things in day to day like trip to tescos then go back home down the back roads. Reminds me of the good old days 80's GTIs. Then off to the track and embarrass some seriously exotic machinery in a Golf - just brill

[nickfrog]

IMI A said:

+1. BMW M series cars have seriously lost their way over the years. From being lightweight normally aspirated road racers to over weight turbo charged barn stormers that play fake engine noise through their speakers. WTF? Truly pathetic.

The M2 is the weight of a E46 M3. The M4 is less than 50kgs more. The engines are superb in terms of rev range and throttle response, despite the turbos.

We may disagree on the definition of pathetic, or maybe you've tracked a current M ? Even there they're surprisingly good for a road car.

[JoeMarano]

mwstewart said:

Is the Polo GTi worth a look as a contender to the Golf? The Golf has grown a bit too large for my needs at the moment.

I've got one and it's the reason it's famous on PH! Genuinely it's a very good car. I've got lots of videos on my youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/sax0joe

[IMI A]

nickfrog said:

IMI A said:

+1. BMW M series cars have seriously lost their way over the years. From being lightweight normally aspirated road racers to over weight turbo charged barn stormers that play fake engine noise through their speakers. WTF? Truly pathetic.

The M2 is the weight of a E46 M3. The M4 is less than 50kgs more. The engines are superb in terms of rev range and throttle response, despite the turbos.

We may disagree on the definition of pathetic, or maybe you've tracked a current M ? Even there they're surprisingly good for a road car.

Playing fake engine sounds through car speakers is pathetic...Everything out of M division after the E30 has been a disappointment for me. E46 with upgraded brakes and completely stripped out shell, manual gearbox, race steering rack is very nice and I'd have one in fact I've been keeping my eye out for one for a project. M2 and M4 wouldn't even look at them.

[nickfrog]

IMI A said:

E46 with upgraded brakes and completely stripped out shell, manual gearbox, race steering rack is very nice and I'd have one in fact I've been keeping my eye out for one for a project. M2 and M4 wouldn't even look at them.

Sounds like your ideal car might be some slightly removed functionally from the daily road cars that the people at BMW produce for the M range so your expectations were never going to be fulfilled as they make cars to be used daily. I am not sure they're going to lose much sleep over the loss of your custom. It would be good to hear more about your "project".

[IMI A]

nickfrog said:

IMI A said:

E46 with upgraded brakes and completely stripped out shell, manual gearbox, race steering rack is very nice and I'd have one in fact I've been keeping my eye out for one for a project. M2 and M4 wouldn't even look at them.

Sounds like your ideal car might be some slightly removed functionally from the daily road cars that the people at BMW produce for the M range so your expectations were never going to be fulfilled as they make cars to be used daily. I am not sure they're going to lose much sleep over the loss of your custom. It would be good to hear more about your "project".

M cars used to represent something completely different i.e. a car you could use as a dd but drive down to the track at weekend etc. I'm not sure modern M cars car weighing a wet 1500-1600kg and with and average weight driver closer to 1600-1700kgs really fit with the original philosophy anymore. Maybe modern emissions regs etc and the typical BMW customer doesn't want that type of car and likes to listen to fake engine sounds through their speakers who knows?

Going back to the comparison with this new Golf CS S I don't think BMW makes anything like this car anymore. Sad as they were one of the pioneers behind the clubsport type car. I'd personally have this Golf CS S over an M2/M4 any day of the week.