RE: Alfa Romeo Giulia pricing announced

[Clivey]

Vitorio said:

Problem is that with everything turbo-charged these days, there isnt that much room engine wise between a 2.0 4 banger and the V6T, that 2.0 petrol engine will easily do more then the standard 200hp, considering alfa also ship it in 280hp form. An NA V6 wouldnt make any sense, and a smaller V6 (say 2.5 litre) turbo would easily be modded to approach QV levels of performance.

Honestly, i wouldnt mind that auto box as long as it comes with flappy paddles, and considering the 159 topped out with a 260hp engine, i dont think 280 is bad for a non-QV top model. Do remember that historically Alfa had quite a few models which topped out with a 1.6/2.0 4 banger (like the previous giulia).

Would a NA V6 make for a more interesting car? sure, but it'd get eaten alive by cheaper 2.0 turbos on performance, and downsizing is a reality these days, hell, BMW will soon be rolling out 3 cilinder engines to the mini and 1 series range...

They could just do what Audi, BMW, Jaguar and Mercedes manage to do and sell a less powerful version of the 3.0 turbo (OK, supercharged in Jag's case) six cylinder in the 320-370 BHP range. Of course I'd want a manual, which is likely to be more of a problem!

Selling a less powerful six pot is no more difficult than selling several versions of a 2.0-litre 4-pot diesel. The question is whether it'd be profitable enough and sadly the answer these days is increasingly negative.

[Vitorio]

Clivey said:

They could just do what Audi, BMW, Jaguar and Mercedes manage to do and sell a less powerful version of the 3.0 turbo (OK, supercharged in Jag's case) six cylinder in the 320-370 BHP range. Of course I'd want a manual, which is likely to be more of a problem!

Selling a less powerful six pot is no more difficult than selling several versions of a 2.0-litre 4-pot diesel. The question is whether it'd be profitable enough and sadly the answer these days is increasingly negative.

The problem is that with todays turbo engines, the obvious way to sell a lower strung v6 would make it far too easy to extract QV level performance out of the lesser, far cheaper models, for likely the cost of a remap, or perhaps a bigger turbo. Audi, BMW, Jag etc.. all dont sell a downtuned version of their top engine either.

And honestly, how many people would buy the theoretical ~350-400hp V6T version if you can get a 280hp version much cheaper, which most likely maps to 320-240 as well?

Personally im more annoyed that the entry level petrol is 200hp, the 159 entered with 140hp, why didnt they just bung in the 170hp 1.4 unit, and drop the price another two grand? Many motorists would have easily gotten along with that "little" power.

[Clivey]

Vitorio said:

The problem is that with todays turbo engines, the obvious way to sell a lower strung v6 would make it far too easy to extract QV level performance out of the lesser, far cheaper models, for likely the cost of a remap, or perhaps a bigger turbo. Audi, BMW, Jag etc.. all dont sell a downtuned version of their top engine either.

And honestly, how many people would buy the theoretical ~350-400hp V6T version if you can get a 280hp version much cheaper, which most likely maps to 320-240 as well?

Personally im more annoyed that the entry level petrol is 200hp, the 159 entered with 140hp, why didnt they just bung in the 170hp 1.4 unit, and drop the price another two grand? Many motorists would have easily gotten along with that "little" power.

As I've already posted, other manufacturers manage it (Audi S4, BMW 340i etc.). Also consider that there's (for example) an M235i and an M2 with c30 horsepower between them - the "halo" model in these cases is about more than just additional power and you can't gain the chassis, suspension etc. etc. changes via a remap.

[Ozzie Osmond]

Vitorio said:

why didnt they just bung in the 170hp 1.4 unit, and drop the price another two grand? Many motorists would have easily gotten along with that "little" power.

Because the car would cost them exactly the same amount of money to build but sell for £2,000 less profit.

[kambites]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Vitorio said:

why didnt they just bung in the 170hp 1.4 unit, and drop the price another two grand? Many motorists would have easily gotten along with that "little" power.

Because the car would cost them exactly the same amount of money to build but sell for £2,000 less profit.

And petrols are pretty much an irrelevance in this market anyway, at least in Europe.

[wal 45]

Triumph Man said:

Damn, I would have had the 4cyl petrol with a manual box.

I don't think you'd be alone but I'm sure Alfa know exactly what they are doing...

Even with my rose tinted goggles on I think most potential German converts will be put off within the first 10 minutes of the AR franchised dealer "experience". Shame as the car looks a good proposition in its class if you are OK with auto only.

[Vee12V]

I drove a manual QV and the 6 speed really isn't anything to write home about, so I'd definitely have one with an automatic. Pretty sure the UK isn't missing out on anything by getting auto only. It's the ZF 8 speed after all and you can get it with big, alu peddles.

[Jimmy Recard]

Clivey said:

As I've already posted, other manufacturers manage it (Audi S4, BMW 340i etc.). Also consider that there's (for example) an M235i and an M2 with c30 horsepower between them - the "halo" model in these cases is about more than just additional power and you can't gain the chassis, suspension etc. etc. changes via a remap.

Those makers are selling a lot more cars.

I'm disappointed in it too but it seems a logical choice by Alfa

[wal 45]

Vee12V said:

I drove a manual QV and the 6 speed really isn't anything to write home about.

Interesting, I take it that it is worse than the 6 speed in the 159? Maybe this is indeed the car to ease me into motoring middle age then after all.

[Vee12V]

wal 45 said:

Vee12V said:

I drove a manual QV and the 6 speed really isn't anything to write home about.

Interesting, I take it that it is worse than the 6 speed in the 159? Maybe this is indeed the car to ease me into motoring middle age then after all.

It's lighter in the throw but also less mechanical than the one in the 159, and the gears are perhaps a bit long-ish (although that was to be expected). I was also told there'll only be 1200 to max 1500 manuals to be made.

[ZesPak]

Vee12V said:

I was also told there'll only be 1200 to max 1500 manuals to be made.

That's seriously low numbers.
Possible future classic?

[Ali_T]

Er, all those 3 series prices are a nonsense. I'm sitting with the BMW configurator in front of me and a) they're quoting for manual cars and b) even then, the prices are around £800 lower then BMW actually chargr.

[daemon]

IanCress said:

Nobody actually buys cars like these brand new. PCP and lease deals are what will make or break it. I imagine they may be able to rival the deals on the Jag XE, but won't get close to the 320d.

+1

Unless theres subsidised PCP deals, its stuffed.

[Ali_T]

Vitorio said:

Honestly, i wouldnt mind that auto box as long as it comes with flappy paddles, and considering the 159 topped out with a 260hp engine, i dont think 280 is bad for a non-QV top model.

A 350bhp version of the 2.0 is also planned. That'll also, likely, end up in the Giulietta QV in 2018.

[craigjm]

Ali_T said:

Er, all those 3 series prices are a nonsense. I'm sitting with the BMW configurator in front of me and a) they're quoting for manual cars and b) even then, the prices are around £800 lower then BMW actually chargr.

Nobody buys a 3 series etc at full retail

[Vitorio]

Ali_T said:

A 350bhp version of the 2.0 is also planned. That'll also, likely, end up in the Giulietta QV in 2018.

350hp in a giulietta? holy cow, that is RS3/M1 killer territory, i wonder if they'll fix up a Q4 driveline for it, or foolishly throw all that power at the front wheels.

I'd hope they make it a proper GTA then, body kit etc.. the gap from the 235hp QV to 350 is more then big enough to justify it.

Im still mad they axed the mito GTA..

[Wills2]

craigjm said:

Ali_T said:

Er, all those 3 series prices are a nonsense. I'm sitting with the BMW configurator in front of me and a) they're quoting for manual cars and b) even then, the prices are around £800 lower then BMW actually chargr.

Nobody buys a 3 series etc at full retail

Indeed the Auto 320d M sport is £34,460 but you'll get one for £28,741 without even haggling I would expect to get it below 28k if you push.

That's got to be an issue for Alfa IF they want to sell these in large volumes (which I presume they do)

Statements like, we don't discounts sir won't wash.

[Kolbenkopp]

Anyone knows what the rev limit is for the petrol 4? Or better yet, any power/torque curves available? Bit worried these will feel just like diesels run on a different fuel.

[LarryUSA]

underphil said:

Vitorio said:

This isnt an economies of scale thing, manuals are being built, just not in RHD, hence the UK only getting autos. Apparently they dont think the market is big enough to bother with converting a manual over to RHD.

And AT boxes will still be more expensive then manuals, no matter the scale.

except in the US, where A/T is the norm and manual box is a cost option!

Auto is the norm here, but is still more expensive than the manual version!

[Ali_T]

craigjm said:

Nobody buys a 3 series etc at full retail

Doesn't matter. The article is comparing retail pricing and is wrong.

Alfa most certainly do discounts as well. My Giulietta, with options, was a £31k car. I paid £25k even when it was a new model.

Edited by Ali_T on Tuesday 9th August 08:05