No such Thing as a slow car
Discussion
I did laugh at someone I know who bought a 1 litre Corsa, I suggested other cars, but a Corsa was the one to have apparently, I suggested a 1.4, or 1.2 but she said "Oh, cant get the 1.4 it has the expensive tax" which was like £120 or something per year, buys Corsa 1 litre and thinks its broken, doesnt feel right, yes that is because you bought the one with the crap, frustrating under-powered engine to save a few quid on VED, yet spend seven grand on the POS.
I think 100 bhp per tonne is really where most should aim and be more or less happy, the lower you dip under that, the less enjoyment you will get and the more painful it will be, go over that and the reverse applies until the law of diminishing returns apply and for most, they wont ever use that additional, obviously power delivery and other factors skews it but as a general premise that is plenty to get the job done without annoying you.
I think 100 bhp per tonne is really where most should aim and be more or less happy, the lower you dip under that, the less enjoyment you will get and the more painful it will be, go over that and the reverse applies until the law of diminishing returns apply and for most, they wont ever use that additional, obviously power delivery and other factors skews it but as a general premise that is plenty to get the job done without annoying you.
J4CKO said:
I did laugh at someone I know who bought a 1 litre Corsa, I suggested other cars, but a Corsa was the one to have apparently, I suggested a 1.4, or 1.2 but she said "Oh, cant get the 1.4 it has the expensive tax" which was like £120 or something per year, buys Corsa 1 litre and thinks its broken, doesnt feel right, yes that is because you bought the one with the crap, frustrating under-powered engine to save a few quid on VED, yet spend seven grand on the POS.
I think 100 bhp per tonne is really where most should aim and be more or less happy, the lower you dip under that, the less enjoyment you will get and the more painful it will be, go over that and the reverse applies until the law of diminishing returns apply and for most, they wont ever use that additional, obviously power delivery and other factors skews it but as a general premise that is plenty to get the job done without annoying you.
I was just a stupid impatient teenager so bought the first POS I viewed just to have a car I think 100 bhp per tonne is really where most should aim and be more or less happy, the lower you dip under that, the less enjoyment you will get and the more painful it will be, go over that and the reverse applies until the law of diminishing returns apply and for most, they wont ever use that additional, obviously power delivery and other factors skews it but as a general premise that is plenty to get the job done without annoying you.
My last car had around 160-170 bhp per tonne and I used all of that all of the time. I think around the 200 mark would be better for day to day driving! My new car has less power (184bhp vs 210BHP) and it does notice and I find I miss that extra kick from the Golf. Not that I'm implying my car is too slow, but I am certain a KA would feel too slow. Any car that actually requires a bit of strain to comfortably reach 70 is too slow imo, or would be at least a stressful car to drive and not worth the hassle of owning it.
J4CKO said:
I think 100 bhp per tonne is really where most should aim and be more or less happy, the lower you dip under that, the less enjoyment you will get and the more painful it will be, go over that and the reverse applies until the law of diminishing returns apply and for most, they wont ever use that additional, obviously power delivery and other factors skews it but as a general premise that is plenty to get the job done without annoying you.
Agreed!100 hp/ton will keep up with modern day traffic and join motorways easily, and when pushed on, can be a decent bit of fun, provided the suspension etc.. is any good. Below that, fun disappears quickly, above it, you quickly get into the range where having any fun on public roads becomes a hazard to your license.
My current car comes in at 88hp/ton, decent enough, but a bit quicker wouldnt be a bad thing.
Limpet said:
Totally agree with this.
I had a fast passenger ride in an Audi RS5, the first modern "quick" car I'd been in (0-60 in around 4 secs). The acceleration off the line is of course massively impressive, but it's the relentlessness of it that made a far greater impression. Both in terms of the lack of any noticeable pause in acceleration between gears thanks to the dual clutch transmission, and the way it just kept pulling past 100 mph. This level of accessible, drama-free performance simply wasn't available in a standard road car until very recently. I only highlight the RS5 because it's the one I experienced. There are of course many others out there.
Yes, "cooking" models have got a lot quicker in recent years, and modern diesels often feel quick in daily use, but modern performance cars are at a different level altogether. I can't think what you'd need to be driving, and how unbelievably aggressively / illegally you'd need to be driving it, to out-drag, out-corner or otherwise "beat" that RS5 on the public road.
To be fair, to drive the Audi very fast you'd need to be very, very illegal.I had a fast passenger ride in an Audi RS5, the first modern "quick" car I'd been in (0-60 in around 4 secs). The acceleration off the line is of course massively impressive, but it's the relentlessness of it that made a far greater impression. Both in terms of the lack of any noticeable pause in acceleration between gears thanks to the dual clutch transmission, and the way it just kept pulling past 100 mph. This level of accessible, drama-free performance simply wasn't available in a standard road car until very recently. I only highlight the RS5 because it's the one I experienced. There are of course many others out there.
Yes, "cooking" models have got a lot quicker in recent years, and modern diesels often feel quick in daily use, but modern performance cars are at a different level altogether. I can't think what you'd need to be driving, and how unbelievably aggressively / illegally you'd need to be driving it, to out-drag, out-corner or otherwise "beat" that RS5 on the public road.
My favorite thing about this thread is that it's now up to 5 pages long, despite that fact that the OP clearly contradicted himself within 2 lines!
chaz1234 said:
Sick of posts saying certain cars are slow No car is slow It is the driver that is slow. Normally people who complain that a car is slow are in the wrong gear for the situation A good driver in a slow car on b roads can easily keep up with a bad driver in a fast car..
What is a 'slow car' if 'no car is slow'?S0 What said:
Gary29 said:
veccy208 said:
I think what OP is trying to say is there's no such thing as a 'too slow' car in the UK. They will all get you from a-b (providing they don't overheat on the way.) This annoys me too. People saying such and such a car is 'dangerously slow.' The danger is in the driver not adapting to the car and available power.
I take it you've never driven a Vauxhall Corsa C 1.0 12V then???Not possible to safely join a dual carriageway / motorway in one of those. I owned one for a very brief period as I was skint, even a full bore launch from a motorway services car park straight down the slip road at full chat and you still could not join at more than 45-50mph, you had no power to out accelerate anything already in L1, and if you eased off to pull in behind something already alongside, you'd get rear ended by whatever was behind that as you wouldn't be able to accelerate up to their cruising speed.
I get what you're trying to say, but there are still some woefully under powered cars out there that I don't think are suitable for motorway driving.
it's rubbish like that that "i think" the OP was having a pop at.I regularly drive tractors on the road (granted not on MW's) which are going well to do 30mph. They can still be driven safely.
FN2TypeR said:
Patrick Bateman said:
Normally people who complain that a car is slow are...in a slow car.
The good old "it's pretty nippy you know" statement usually comes from those who own a 1.6 Ford Focus with 100bhp or similar in my experience 
I once worked with a chap who claimed his one litre Corsa (three cylinder perhaps?) "went like f
k".
(they are 'nippy', but I was under no illusion it was a quick car)
Was a very nice car to drive (Mk1), but I've since changed to a Mk3 (150bhp diseasal) and there is no contest. My daily route is mainly B roads and I find I'm taking corners about 5-10mph faster than I would in the old Focus. By no means driving like a lunatic (seen too many deer around here to take silly risks) but the car copes so much better, whereas the old one always felt you were pushing it a bit closer to the limits. I've driven an old Ka and know I'd have to be really on the limits to stay with something like my fairly average diesel Focus, let alone something genuinely fast. But if someone in an old Ka did come steaming up my chuff I would have no hesitation in letting them by if they wanted... I'd prefer they ended up in a ditch further up the road and leave me out of it
Neighbour took me out in their remapped Megane RS recently (300+ bhp), that was properly quick... (although we were overtaken* by someone in a Nissan Micra, does the OP have a 2nd car...?)
* we were parked up at the time
My cars range in power from 54bhp up to about 200bhp. The 54bhp car is an 18 year old 1.0l Micra. It's perfectly capable of keeping up with modern traffic, even on give-and-take country roads. In fact, much as in other cars, I'm usually being held up in it on NSL roads. The key is knowing how to drive it and keep the engine spinning - heel n' toeing into bends so you can use what power the engine has on the way out, and blipping down a gear or two to keep your momentum up hills. It's good fun, and makes for an entertaining challenge on the way to and from work. It probably helps that it has a quick gearshift, a cable throttle and unassisted steering, which all help you drive the thing quite comfortably up to its limits.
In my experience, people who say they 'need' a faster car, are really telling you they're a slow driver...
In my experience, people who say they 'need' a faster car, are really telling you they're a slow driver...
I have owned a MK1 Ford KA and have to agree that it's a complete laugh round the bends... handles/grips well, has enough power to tiptoe into three figures and feels fantastic behind the wheel. Was a basic runaround that cost me a few hundred quid to cart me to/from college and take the dog out in, but I really rated it, only sold it when it failed it's MOT and would require more money to fix than it was worth.
It wasn't fast and I couldn't have lived with it as my sole car, was too slow for that. But on the local back roads I know really well and on the boring skelp to/from college, it was more than enough to keep me happy.
Cheers,
Grant
It wasn't fast and I couldn't have lived with it as my sole car, was too slow for that. But on the local back roads I know really well and on the boring skelp to/from college, it was more than enough to keep me happy.
Cheers,
Grant
veccy208 said:
S0 What said:
Gary29 said:
veccy208 said:
I think what OP is trying to say is there's no such thing as a 'too slow' car in the UK. They will all get you from a-b (providing they don't overheat on the way.) This annoys me too. People saying such and such a car is 'dangerously slow.' The danger is in the driver not adapting to the car and available power.
I take it you've never driven a Vauxhall Corsa C 1.0 12V then???Not possible to safely join a dual carriageway / motorway in one of those. I owned one for a very brief period as I was skint, even a full bore launch from a motorway services car park straight down the slip road at full chat and you still could not join at more than 45-50mph, you had no power to out accelerate anything already in L1, and if you eased off to pull in behind something already alongside, you'd get rear ended by whatever was behind that as you wouldn't be able to accelerate up to their cruising speed.
I get what you're trying to say, but there are still some woefully under powered cars out there that I don't think are suitable for motorway driving.
it's rubbish like that that "i think" the OP was having a pop at.I regularly drive tractors on the road (granted not on MW's) which are going well to do 30mph. They can still be driven safely.
If a car pulls out, you will expect them to accelerate up to a reasonable speed quickly. Someone pulling out on such a DC with an underpowered car will find it difficult to use a gap in the traffic large enough not to surprise other drivers, and given how a lot of drivers pay attention on the road, that makes it dangerous.
NDNDNDND said:
The 54bhp car is an 18 year old 1.0l Micra. - heel n' toeing into bends
^^ This is some serious enthusiasm in a Micra. made me lolRS Grant said:
I have owned a MK1 Ford KA and have to agree that it's a complete laugh round the bends... handles/grips well, has enough power to tiptoe into three figures and feels fantastic behind the wheel. Was a basic runaround that cost me a few hundred quid to cart me to/from college and take the dog out in, but I really rated it, only sold it when it failed it's MOT and would require more money to fix than it was worth.
It wasn't fast and I couldn't have lived with it as my sole car, was too slow for that. But on the local back roads I know really well and on the boring skelp to/from college, it was more than enough to keep me happy
My wife had an original shape KA many years ago now and I do remember it being pretty good in the corners, probably to do with the wheels being right in the corners with very little overhangs on it. 1.3 engine was of course no dream but was ok.It wasn't fast and I couldn't have lived with it as my sole car, was too slow for that. But on the local back roads I know really well and on the boring skelp to/from college, it was more than enough to keep me happy
I think what most people are trying to say is that these cars are too slow for them, not that they are actually dangerously slow.
I bet OP belongs to the group of slow car/van drivers that drive right up my bumper and overtake me on blind bends when I'm keeping a safe speed on twisty NSL roads. More often than not during school holidays.
OP - do you drive away thinking "HAHAHA I WON THAT RACE I AM SO MUCH FASTER THAN HIM EVEN THOUGH HIS 0-60-0 TIME IS FASTER THAN MY 0-60 TIME"?
You know nobody's racing your 1.3 Ka, right? They're just enjoying the drive in their high spec car.
OP - do you drive away thinking "HAHAHA I WON THAT RACE I AM SO MUCH FASTER THAN HIM EVEN THOUGH HIS 0-60-0 TIME IS FASTER THAN MY 0-60 TIME"?
You know nobody's racing your 1.3 Ka, right? They're just enjoying the drive in their high spec car.
Alex@POD said:
veccy208 said:
S0 What said:
Gary29 said:
veccy208 said:
I think what OP is trying to say is there's no such thing as a 'too slow' car in the UK. They will all get you from a-b (providing they don't overheat on the way.) This annoys me too. People saying such and such a car is 'dangerously slow.' The danger is in the driver not adapting to the car and available power.
I take it you've never driven a Vauxhall Corsa C 1.0 12V then???Not possible to safely join a dual carriageway / motorway in one of those. I owned one for a very brief period as I was skint, even a full bore launch from a motorway services car park straight down the slip road at full chat and you still could not join at more than 45-50mph, you had no power to out accelerate anything already in L1, and if you eased off to pull in behind something already alongside, you'd get rear ended by whatever was behind that as you wouldn't be able to accelerate up to their cruising speed.
I get what you're trying to say, but there are still some woefully under powered cars out there that I don't think are suitable for motorway driving.
it's rubbish like that that "i think" the OP was having a pop at.I regularly drive tractors on the road (granted not on MW's) which are going well to do 30mph. They can still be driven safely.
If a car pulls out, you will expect them to accelerate up to a reasonable speed quickly. Someone pulling out on such a DC with an underpowered car will find it difficult to use a gap in the traffic large enough not to surprise other drivers, and given how a lot of drivers pay attention on the road, that makes it dangerous.
Almost any car designed in the last 30 years is fast enough that the limitations on ordinary A and B roads are going to be visibility, what's legal, and the irritating detail of other drivers. Mountain passes, long uphill stretches of motorway and short sliproads you'll notice the difference, but mostly it's going to be a case of, "do I really want to be approaching this hedgerow-lined blind corner at 60mph?" - and since even a little Endura-E can get you up to that 60mph in reasonable time, the car isn't so relevant.
I'd certainly say that when I drive something like a Fiesta, I'm still punting about at much the same speed as I do in my T5 despite the latter car having three times the power. Difference is in a Fiesta there will be a lot less throttle travel left before the stop, and I'll need to use the gears rather than just doing so for my own amusement.
But even something basic like a Fiesta still has performance that would have been considered a reasonably quick sports car back in the 1950s or 1960s (look up the figures for an MGB or a Sprite some time) and if you go back to the inter-war period when a lot of our A and B road network was built, or at least re-engineered to its current state, that was the equivalent of supercar performance.
So it's no surprise that almost anything modern can reach the point where the main thing stopping you from driving faster is the engineering standards of a road network designed when a mid-range saloon car had a top speed of 60mph. If we rebuilt all of our roads with a view to regularly making use of cars with a 130mph top speed and legislated accordingly, you'd start seeing significant differences between having 75bhp, 200bhp or 400bhp under your right foot. (Beyond merely that nice feeling of having power in reserve)
I'd certainly say that when I drive something like a Fiesta, I'm still punting about at much the same speed as I do in my T5 despite the latter car having three times the power. Difference is in a Fiesta there will be a lot less throttle travel left before the stop, and I'll need to use the gears rather than just doing so for my own amusement.
But even something basic like a Fiesta still has performance that would have been considered a reasonably quick sports car back in the 1950s or 1960s (look up the figures for an MGB or a Sprite some time) and if you go back to the inter-war period when a lot of our A and B road network was built, or at least re-engineered to its current state, that was the equivalent of supercar performance.
So it's no surprise that almost anything modern can reach the point where the main thing stopping you from driving faster is the engineering standards of a road network designed when a mid-range saloon car had a top speed of 60mph. If we rebuilt all of our roads with a view to regularly making use of cars with a 130mph top speed and legislated accordingly, you'd start seeing significant differences between having 75bhp, 200bhp or 400bhp under your right foot. (Beyond merely that nice feeling of having power in reserve)
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff