Why is Japan not making saloons?

[Wacky Racer]

Saloons are old hat, and not very practical, hatchbacks are the future.

You need to be able to nip down to Comet/Curry's to pick up a Washing Machine, or down to the builders merchants for six bags of cement if you need to.

[Dave Hedgehog]

Wacky Racer said:

Saloons are old hat, and not very practical, hatchbacks are the future.

You need to be able to nip down to Comet/Curry's to pick up a Washing Machine, or down to the builders merchants for six bags of cement if you need to.

i have done both of those things in the last 9 months lol well a tumble dryer and 4 bags of cement

[RobM77]

Wacky Racer said:

Saloons are old hat, and not very practical, hatchbacks are the future.

You need to be able to nip down to Comet/Curry's to pick up a Washing Machine, or down to the builders merchants for six bags of cement if you need to.

Why would 6 bags of cement not fit in a saloon? I've had a lot more cement than that in my saloon!

Washing machines and dishwashers are a once every decade (or more) purchase aren't they? Personally I decide on the model, then find the best price online and have it delivered. Why would I want to pay £50 more to get it from the local Currys and go and get it myself?

[techguyone]

I think I've owned precisely 1 saloon in my entire life, that's out of 14 vehicles total.

Ive nothing against saloons but they are so 20th Century and impractical. For the same footprint I can either have 3 suitcases in the boot or a couple of doors in the hatch, oh sure I *might* get a 'ski hatch' big farking deal, what good is that to me in the real world, the reason why there's hardly any saloons in the UK (No idea on the rest of the world) is that they offer more.

Some of us don't just go powering around in our coupes or M3s, some of us use a car for many different things, including practical ones. Saloons don't cut it.

Ive owned Estates too oh and SUVs but only 1 saloon.

[RobM77]

As I said above, it does depend what you carry. My Dad recently retired from running a small building business and regularly carted building materials around, but since I was born he's had 3 hatchbacks, 2 estates and 3 saloons. The 2 saloons were the last two - so he came back to them without any issues. As far as I know he's about to buy another saloon.

I'm in the middle of major works on an old house we bought to do up a couple of years ago, plus I windsurf twice a week and tow a racing car to tracks around the country with all its spares etc, but I own a saloon and don't really have a problem. Sure, I'm considering an estate for my next car, but it's something I'm thinking about, it's not an automatic choice. As I said above, for the 3 series the saloon is 70-80kg lighter and for the 5 series it's a 100kg difference; you also pay more in the first place to buy the car, which echoes down to secondhand prices too, plus there's the refinement issue. It's nice to have the choice.

Edited by RobM77 on Monday 22 August 10:27

[MarkRSi]

skyrover said:

The rest of the world has a weird fetish with saloons that the UK seems to lack.

FTFY

[Evolved]

GroundEffect said:

HTP99 said:

skyrover said:

The UK has a weird fetish with hatchbacks that the rest of the world seems to lack.

Why is it a weird fetish; hatchbacks are far more practical than saloons and look better too, particularly at the cheaper end of the market; ever seen a Polo or Fiesta saloo or an Astra or Focus saloon; hideous looking cars.

The Focus Sedan is a good looking thing:

It really isn't.

[ambuletz]

i think some countries view saloons as a status symbol/affluence. They think a saloon is more premium then a hatchback version. I'm also gona go far as to say that the same countries that prefer saloons never really had the hot hatch bug.

[FN2TypeR]

Pints said:

Just how often do you use the practicality of a hatch though?

I have a Civic Type R and the boot is vast, we put the back seats down and stuff a couple of mountain bikes in there, it's brilliant in my experience.

I'd definitely have an estate over the equivalent saloon when the time to pick a sensibly sized family car comes along.

[Audemars]

HTP99 said:

In the grand scheme of things you are talking a few cm's difference, they look longer as the roof line is longer, it's the same with SUV's or crossovers; "oh it's so big I'll never be able to park it" it looks bigger because it is taller, when in fact it isn't really any longer than the equivalent hatch.

Eh? Most people prefer SUVs than estates due to length. Look how long (and ridiculous) the estate pictured on this thread looks. Estates are long cars. Most SUVs are fiesta sized cars on stilts. Yes there are some SUVs as long as estates eg the Q7 but most people buy the small/medium sized SUVs/crossovers. They look better than a golf or a focus so I can understand why they sell.

[rodericb]

Wacky Racer said:

Saloons are old hat, and not very practical, hatchbacks are the future.

You need to be able to nip down to Comet/Curry's to pick up a Washing Machine, or down to the builders merchants for six bags of cement if you need to.

Depends on the type of load. Mazda 3 hatch load 308 litres, sedan has 408 litres. Sedan is 11cm longer. http://www.mazda.com.au/cars/mazda3/price-specific...

If one wanted ultimate practicality they'd get an estate.

[jamieduff1981]

swerni said:

Evolved said:

GroundEffect said:

HTP99 said:

skyrover said:

The UK has a weird fetish with hatchbacks that the rest of the world seems to lack.

Why is it a weird fetish; hatchbacks are far more practical than saloons and look better too, particularly at the cheaper end of the market; ever seen a Polo or Fiesta saloo or an Astra or Focus saloon; hideous looking cars.

The Focus Sedan is a good looking thing:

It really isn't.

That was my first thought as well
Good looking compared to what ?

I wouldn't say it was good looking, but the normal hatchback is a complete minger so it's nice by juxtaposition.

[jamieduff1981]

eltax91 said:

Because every man needs an estate in his life.

I think you just dispelled a myth about how much more practical estates really are! All that extra metal and what you needed to transport didn't fit anyway and ended up on the roof same as if you had the saloon!

[RobM77]

jamieduff1981 said:

eltax91 said:

Because every man needs an estate in his life.

I think you just dispelled a myth about how much more practical estates really are! All that extra metal and what you needed to transport didn't fit anyway and ended up on the roof same as if you had the saloon!

The advantage in those two photos is the roof bar spacing; with an estate that has rails you can spread the bars further apart to carry long items. It's especially relevant if those items aren't that strong under their own weight like the celotex or ply/plasterboard as shown. You can still carry long items on a saloon of course (I used to carry two 12' kayaks and now it's too 12'6" SUP boards), but they need to be strong enough to be supported a metre or so apart.

Edited by RobM77 on Monday 22 August 13:45

[ReaperCushions]

techguyone said:

, oh sure I *might* get a 'ski hatch' big farking deal

My theory is that Ski hatches are more likely to be 'Billy Book Case' hatches in the real world.

[Mr2Mike]

Audemars said:

Eh? Most people prefer SUVs than estates due to length. Look how long (and ridiculous) the estate pictured on this thread looks. Estates are long cars. Most SUVs are fiesta sized cars on stilts.

Eh? A large estate and a Fiesta sized crossover aren't even remotely comparable in terms of load space.

[RobM77]

ReaperCushions said:

techguyone said:

, oh sure I *might* get a 'ski hatch' big farking deal

My theory is that Ski hatches are more likely to be 'Billy Book Case' hatches in the real world.

I think it's a simply case of something having to have a name, so they call it that. A 'ski hatch' is actually jolly useful if you have something long to transport but don't want to put the rear seats down (for example you may have rear passengers). I don't see the problem?

[djt100]

I've always preferred Saloons and Booted Coupes, I prefer not to hear everything in my boot rattling about, i prefer the look of them. Simple. Hatchbacks are more practical but I've never thought when buying a car, I know I'll buy the most practical, and I'm sure very few on PH do either, Else We'd all be driving poverty spec passat diesel estates or similar. ( I have nothing against estates just never needed one)

[eltax91]

RobM77 said:

jamieduff1981 said:

eltax91 said:

Because every man needs an estate in his life.

I think you just dispelled a myth about how much more practical estates really are! All that extra metal and what you needed to transport didn't fit anyway and ended up on the roof same as if you had the saloon!

The advantage in those two photos is the roof bar spacing; with an estate that has rails you can spread the bars further apart to carry long items. It's especially relevant if those items aren't that strong under their own weight like the celotex or ply/plasterboard as shown. You can still carry long items on a saloon of course (I used to carry two 12' kayaks and now it's too 12'6" SUP boards), but they need to be strong enough to be supported a metre or so apart.

Edited by RobM77 on Monday 22 August 13:45

Very good points well made, spacing the roof bar makes stuff on the roof more stable. I concur, in picture 1, the very heavy fire board doesn't fit in the car, but then it fits in no car, is need a van for that. In fairness if I had a hatch or saloon I'd have bought twice as many half boards as I wouldn't have been happy with long ones on the roof due to spacing, this was quite on the edge of my comfort zone!

At that time I decided that the weight on the roof was enough, but when I put the relatively light insulation on top, the back seats were down flat and the car was stuffed to the roof line with flat pack (nice 2m + tall wardrobes). So, there you go, proof my friend that it doesn't disprove the point of having an estate, I had long stuff on the roof AND in the car, try that in your saloon.

[techguyone]

RobM77 said:

I think it's a simply case of something having to have a name, so they call it that. A 'ski hatch' is actually jolly useful if you have something long to transport but don't want to put the rear seats down (for example you may have rear passengers). I don't see the problem?

not a problem, it's just that compared to a hatchback, the benefits afforded by a 9 inch square hole are... dubious at best and come a very poor second.