Why you shouldn't give cyclist a wide berth when passing

[anonymous-user]

julian64 said:

Honestly this is the most dire type of post on PH. I feel slightly disinclined to even answer. It you think the whole post is a lie then just don't reply. If you call custard on everyone on the internet then why have the conversation.

I'm not, just the fact that it was 8 miles, it seems like an enormous amount of time to be stuck behind someone.

julian64 said:

I didn't measure eight miles, or take the time behind them. It felt like.......

ok

julian64 said:

it was an estimate, but I fail to see what's going on with your brain. If I tell you where and you measure it to 3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10, does it make the comment any less valid. The only certainty was me looking at my speedo and seeing 10mph for most of the way with the cyclist making little attempt to go faster although they undoubtedly could, or pull over. I didn't actually measure the time or distance but gave an estimate and for that I whole heatedly apologise, but really does that make any difference

It kind of does when you are suggesting being held up as a huge inconvenience, over 8 miles which nobody, including me could understand. Now you are saying you don't know exactly how long?

julian64 said:

It matters not whether you believe me or not. What matters is that I posted that is was unreasonable for a cyclist to hold up a car at 10mph for eight miles and there have been a significant number of posters on here defend their right to do so.

The estimated 8 miles that you didn't take the time to measure?

julian64 said:

Those particular cyclist need their moral responsibility not to hold up faster traffic put into law in the same way a middle lane moron can now be bought to book.

And I say that with a heavy heart cos I hate the ever increasing legislation in this country.

And i'll ask again, how long were you actually held up? Personally I don't see the issue if it was in the normal scope of what everyone on the road deals with on a daily basis.

There are good and bad 'motorists', if we legislated for every single event nobody would get anywhere. The problem is that motorists in this country are far too hot headed in general.

[ashleyman]

walm said:

ashleyman said:

Now, I get that sometimes my car can be a bit noisy, but she had to be pretty stupid taking her 2 young boys, one of which looked like he could hardly ride a bike, on a bike ride down a country lane like that. Especially as further up the track is literally only just wide enough for 1 car to pass.

You would rather she took them on a main road?

There are literally hundreds of miles of NSL round me where doing anything more than 20-30mph (in a car or on a bike) is suicidal.

That's where I take my youngest to learn to ride on the road.
Because people pass slowly rather than with a 60mph differential.

I am sure she was making a fuss over nothing as most over-protective mothers who don't get out of third in their cars are wont to do!

No, that's not what I'm saying. It was more a comment that if she's worried about speed differential then being on a back road NSL is probably a bad idea. This particular road we were on is wide open, easy to do way more than 60 down and then gradually filters down into the suicidal single track roads you describe.

I'd rather she taught the boy how to ride a bike before taking him on a country road like the one we were on! Just genuinely surprised that we stopped to see if she was ok after the waving of hands and instead got a load of abuse.

[walm]

ashleyman said:

No, that's not what I'm saying. It was more a comment that if she's worried about speed differential then being on a back road NSL is probably a bad idea. This particular road we were on is wide open, easy to do way more than 60 down and then gradually filters down into the suicidal single track roads you describe.

I'd rather she taught the boy how to ride a bike before taking him on a country road like the one we were on! Just genuinely surprised that we stopped to see if she was ok after the waving of hands and instead got a load of abuse.

Ah - I see, sorry.

Taking a young one on a road where 60 is easy is madness - totally agree.
And obviously you don't deserve the abuse!

[FiF]

Didn't contribute to the other thread because I'm a firm believer in the behaviour which was the purpose of that OP, namely provide enough room that if the cyclist falls sideways you don't drive over their head. Wasn't helped on that thread by the numerous "drunk old git at fault" remarks.

So I'm patient behind cyclists, but really some don't help themselves at all.

Anecdotally the other day there was a cycling club outing, one of the older farts was riding well ahead of the pack, on his own, seemed to be dawdling along waiting for the rest to catch up. He had a bit of a shout at a couple of vehicles ahead that squeezed past, so I waited, wide stretch a bit further on, so passed leaving a car width.

Short time later, some traffic lights, and of course he filters to the front of the queue. On green sets off slowly, really slowly, everyone gets past him again, I'm well clear past him approaching a "All traffic turn left" junction into a narrow one way system, have been tracking the old duffer's progress and saw him putting a spurt on, to me it seemed as if he was deliberately trying to put himself close to my n/s rear and in danger of being trapped by a left turning vehicle. Taking a very wide turn dealt with that.
Quarter of a mile further on traffic is slowing for a right turn at a roundabout, nobody is stopped, we are all moving reasonably, still tracking Bob on his bike, and just as I get to the island he comes hacking past on my left, flings it over close to n/s front quarter, sticks a right turn desultory hand signal after he's done the manoeuvre, enters the roundabout and now rides round it deliberately slowly. WTF!

Concluded it was just some stroppy old tt just set out for an argument, which was going to be with me.

All you reasonable cyclists out there, you are being done no favours by idiots like that, just as reasonable drivers suffer from the image given by dangerous antics of other drivers.

/rant, yeah not enough swearing.

[Matt_N]

pablo said:

Dear OP, I'm currently sat in hospital with a double pelvis fracture and a broken thumb, last Wednesday I was cycling along a fairly quiet road approaching a roundabout when a car on the road to my left pulled out in front of me, those of you well versed with the highway code will attest that it was my right of way but he obviously hadn't looked for incoming traffic, most likely because as confirmed by a witness to the police, he was on his phone at the time.

It is most likely that he barely slowed before joining the roundabout based on where he knocked me off and where I landed, he got out, muttered something to a witness and drove off without leaving any details. To my knowledge the police have been unable to trace him.

So you can take your jolly little bicycles don't deserve to be on the road thread and shove it right up your fking arse you utter utter and possibly in the future, think before you post such utter fking nonsense again.

Edited by pablo on Tuesday 23 August 16:25

Ouch, GWS mate.

[Hol]

g7jhp said:

Hol said:

g7jhp said:

newoldfart said:

And nobody has mentioned yet that cyclists don,t pay road tax or v.e.d or whatever else you like to call it.

They have paid because they all have cars. Bikes are just another toy!

Yup, And its usually a cyclist that mentions it first, in a thread that includes words like 'nobody has mentioned VED yet'.




But, on the other hand nobody on this thread has mentioned that ALL drivers are 100% on their mobile phones whenever they are trying to overtake a cyclist.
(Do you see what I did there? )

Funny the one time I can remember almost getting knocked off was when I was approaching a road island, which means cars can't fit through and I heard a screech of tyres behind me. Looked behind to see a woman with mobile in hand looking very white as though she hadn't been concentrating on the road.

You do ride more defensively and cautiously when you've aware of these situations and try to get off busier roads as soon as possible.

Actually... that's not funny at all - which is probably what you meant???

[julian64]

CS Garth said:

julian64 said:

I didn't measure eight miles, or take the time behind them. It felt like an age it was an estimate, but I fail to see what's going on with your brain. If I tell you where and you measure it to 3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10, does it make the comment any less valid. The only certainty was me looking at my speedo and seeing 10mph for most of the way with the cyclist making little attempt to go faster although they undoubtedly could, or pull over. I didn't actually measure the time or distance but gave an estimate and for that I whole heatedly apologise, but really does that make any difference

Indeed it does. As the shorter the distance the more you look like an impatient moaning Minnie. . I'd suggest your wild exaggeration was to garner greater sympathy. If the post was "i sat behind some sub-optimally courteous cyclists for a little over 1800 yards" you'd have been less well treated even on a motoring forum imho

So, in short: impatient man meets cyclists who doesn't pull over when man would like. Man has to wait for a few minutes to pass. We as car owners don't own the road and the sooner we stop acting like we do the better

Live and let live

Edited by CS Garth on Wednesday 24th August 10:59

The only thing I'm impatient with now is your laziness. I gave you the route, so where did the 1800 yds come from or the few minutes inconvenienced? Did you just pick figures out of the air. I've already admitted I didn't measure it, but you are welcome to with the rough directions I gave. You can easily see it wouldn't be a few minutes. Why don't you google down the route and spot the overtaking places if you are really that anal about it.

I am however having my suspicions about lycra warriors confirmed by the comments on this thread. Any excuse, even simple denial of everything rather than agree the cyclist were unreasonable. Unbelievable!

It is becoming my suspicion that legislation will come to cycling whether it be tax or laws, not because cycling really needs them, or because the vast majority of cyclist cause any problem on the road. but because a few of you cycling warriors leave the rest of sensible road goers no other choice.

The sort of cyclist I met on that day will one day cause an accident by causing that frustration, and when they do they should be accountable.

the eye opener for me and possibly my last comment on this thread is that they obviously weren't two in a million when people on here are backing them up.

[V8OW]

okgo said:

Also - utter bks did you sit behind someone for 50 minutes.

That was my first though when I read this

OP, do you drive an inaudible car?

[Hol]

RobM77 said:

newoldfart said:

And nobody has mentioned yet that cyclists don,t pay road tax or v.e.d or whatever else you like to call it.

• VED is a levy on emissions. Cyclists, horses and electric cars etc therefore don't pay it.

• VED is not road tax; there is no such thing as a road tax. Roads are a public benefit paid for by general taxation. Where I live we don't have pavements, so roads are how everyone walks places! They're not exclusively for cars or in fact anyone - they are for us all to share with equal rights.

• Most cyclists will also have a car. For most people, cycling is a sport and a way to keep fit, like running. This especially applies to the lycra brigade as people like to call them; because generally speaking, if someone's wearing dedicated cycling clothes and wearing shoes that you can barely walk in, they're not riding to the shops, funnily enough!

.

Please can someone without a bicycle, who doesn't already know the answer from a 100 prior threads kindly go back to the beginning of this thread and retrospectively ask about cyclists not paying VED, so that Rob's response isn't wasted?

[jock mcsporran]

Pooh said:

The highway code states that if you are on a single track road and a faster vehicle catches up with you, you should pull into a passing place and let them pass, this applies to all vehicles from TVRs to bicycles so there is no excuse for holding somebody up.
Anybody who has driven much in the west of Scotland should be familiar with this and with the exception of a few numpties (usually tourists) it works very well.

Assuming it is a single track with passing places then the above is the only really relevant comment on this thread (along with Brapp). Cyclists should have used a passing place to let faster traffic through.
Works very well in the North of Scotland with the exception of some tourists who seem to think that letting someone through impacts on their manliness despite the many signs to remind you.

[Mr2Mike]

Rick101 said:

Calling BS on this. 8 miles? No chance.

Dashcam footage?
Google Phone tracker data?

You'd have to be properly weird to GPS track every single journey you made as a private motorist. Fortunately not every car driver is a dashcam wker.

[je777]

julian64 said:

So I found the other thread interesting but infuriating. Always try to be courteous to cyclists and motorcyclist as I do both myself

However going down a country lane (with passing places) for cars for nearly eight miles on Saturday in my car. In front of me were two lycra clad cyclists drinking from water bottles, eating what looked like mars bars and generally chatting with each other while enjoying the countryside air.

They were completely aware I was behind them and spent the entire eight miles at about ten miles an hour, one of them demonstrating their hands off handlebar technique for about a mile. At no time did either of them think to pull into a passing place to let me through.

There were two occasions early on when the road started to widen when I could've made an overtake manoeuvre but I would have come very close to the cyclist to do so.

If I had known there would be eight miles involved I would've gone for it early on. Gawd only knows what people with that cycling attitude must create in a busy part of London.

After that little meeting I'm now of the opinion that cyclists should not have equal access to the road as cars.

Regarding your last line, I agree: that is how all rules should be made. Whatever happens to you in an isolated incident should be the basis for all laws that are applied to everyone.

[je777]

J4CKO said:

Weird thread !

Trying to justify 50 minutes sat transfixed by some Lycra covered buttocks...

Excellent. And infinitely more likely than this actually being a true story as opposed to someone trying to make a point.

[SteveSteveson]

FiF said:

Didn't contribute to the other thread because I'm a firm believer in the behaviour which was the purpose of that OP, namely provide enough room that if the cyclist falls sideways you don't drive over their head. Wasn't helped on that thread by the numerous "drunk old git at fault" remarks.

So I'm patient behind cyclists, but really some don't help themselves at all.

Anecdotally the other day there was a cycling club outing, one of the older farts was riding well ahead of the pack, on his own, seemed to be dawdling along waiting for the rest to catch up. He had a bit of a shout at a couple of vehicles ahead that squeezed past, so I waited, wide stretch a bit further on, so passed leaving a car width.

Short time later, some traffic lights, and of course he filters to the front of the queue. On green sets off slowly, really slowly, everyone gets past him again, I'm well clear past him approaching a "All traffic turn left" junction into a narrow one way system, have been tracking the old duffer's progress and saw him putting a spurt on, to me it seemed as if he was deliberately trying to put himself close to my n/s rear and in danger of being trapped by a left turning vehicle. Taking a very wide turn dealt with that.
Quarter of a mile further on traffic is slowing for a right turn at a roundabout, nobody is stopped, we are all moving reasonably, still tracking Bob on his bike, and just as I get to the island he comes hacking past on my left, flings it over close to n/s front quarter, sticks a right turn desultory hand signal after he's done the manoeuvre, enters the roundabout and now rides round it deliberately slowly. WTF!

Concluded it was just some stroppy old tt just set out for an argument, which was going to be with me.

All you reasonable cyclists out there, you are being done no favours by idiots like that, just as reasonable drivers suffer from the image given by dangerous antics of other drivers.

/rant, yeah not enough swearing.

No diffrent to the tt in a Volvo the other day that was doing 30 on a 50 limit DC. As he saw me comming past he put his foot down, so that as the back of my car was at his bonnet he started to undertake me, forcing me to brake and pull back in behind him where the road went to one lane for a roundabout, and giving me the waggy finger. As we then pulled off the roundabout he did 30, so I went to overtake him he put his foot down again. Does this mean all drivers are responsible for him being a tt?

[walm]

julian64 said:

The route was from my house in ash kent through pease hill toward stanstead and then onto trottiscliffe, but I could simply have scoured the map for any section of road for your nonsensical request.

Ash to Trottiscliffe is 4.2 miles.

The first bit along "The Street" has a dashed white line down it - plenty of room to overtake, not a single track road at all.

Perhaps if you took the faster route google recommends (via the M20 rather than via single track road) you wouldn't have these problems.

It probably would have been better to scour the map for something that at least vaguely backed up your lies!

[Conscript]

julian64 said:

I suppose the point of the post was that it was a demonstration to me that there is a 'section' of cyclist behaviour which is unlike anything else you find on the road.

I've lived in my neck of the wood for nearly twenty years and due to its location ash, kent there are large quantities of times you will be going down small country roads behind caravans, tractors, hay bailers, horses. Its all expected and part of living in a small country roads area.

I've never met a pack of horse riders who didn't pull into the next layby, and thank you for creeping past so as not to alarm the horses.

I've never met a tractor driver or someone herding sheep who didn't put an arm up to thank you for waiting. Tractors often hold up cars but you can see them trying to get to the next field so no problem

These guys didn't have to travel at 10mph, they could've pulled over at any time and I would've been passed in a flash. I've done this countless times on a bike its simple just to pull into a driveway for a few secs, you don't even have to take your feet off the pedals.

The 'I can hold you up and bugger you' attitude is particularly peculiar to some types of cyclists usually the lycra clad ones. Its an aggressive attitude which is contrary to MOST road users.

perhaps I should say that I kinda like sorts cars so am unlikely to be the sort who just stays behind for no reason. I do draw the line however at roaring past with a few inches to spare even if they are annoying me.

Just for balance, I live in a semi-rural area in north Kent. I regularly encounter cyclists on the rural roads around here, some wearing Lycra, others not (not that attire matters), as individuals and as groups and cannot recall a single encounter where they have acted discourteously or deliberately gone out of their way to hold me up.

I ride occasionally with my friends (usually 3 or 4 of us) generally on rural roads. We sometimes ride abreast of each other, but make sure we switch to single file and get as far over as we can when cars approach. If someone is having trouble overtaking us, either due to them not being particularly confident or because the rod narrows, etc, then we will look to find the next suitable spot where we pull over and let traffic past. We acknowledge and thank any oncoming traffic which goes out of it's way to wait for us.

Of all the traffic I encounter regularly on the roads, I find cyclists the least obstructive, the easiest to pass and generally the most consistently courteous. Which is why I'm always surprised at threads like these; perhaps I have just been lucky, but I suspect that some people are just automatically less tolerant of other road users if they happen to be on a bike.

EDIT: I've just seen that you meant Ash as in, near New Ash Green, so you're not all that far from me. And the route you mention (through Stansted) is one I've ridden a few times before. Those roads are indeed, narrow, but I've encountered cars on them whilst driving and always found room to pull over as soon as I can. The problem here is not "cyclists", the problem is "dheads"...they just happened to be be on bikes, that's all.

Edited by Conscript on Wednesday 24th August 13:45

[je777]

julian64 said:

The fact that you defend them is what's worrying me.

No-one is defending the actions of these two cyclists - not one post on here.

People are mocking you (apart from for your driving) because you apparently believe that all cyclists should be punished because of this event (assuming it actually happened).

[SteveSteveson]

walm said:

julian64 said:

The route was from my house in ash kent through pease hill toward stanstead and then onto trottiscliffe, but I could simply have scoured the map for any section of road for your nonsensical request.

Ash to Trottiscliffe is 4.2 miles.

The first bit along "The Street" has a dashed white line down it - plenty of room to overtake, not a single track road at all.

Perhaps if you took the faster route google recommends (via the M20 rather than via single track road) you wouldn't have these problems.

It probably would have been better to scour the map for something that at least vaguely backed up your lies!

Looking at those roads, if it were true, someone would have to be monumentaly stupid to sit behind someone doing ten mph and not take another route, and on those winding single track lanes your not going to be averaging more than 20mph anyway. I doubt a car is going to be much faster than a cyclist down there.

[julian64]

je777 said:

Regarding your last line, I agree: that is how all rules should be made. Whatever happens to you in an isolated incident should be the basis for all laws that are applied to everyone.

Sarcasm aside, I quite agree and as I have posted before no one would change the law for me. But up until that point I'd never really met bloody minded cyclists before. If you read my posts though the reason I suggest a change in the law is two fold

1) If their behaviour was duplicated in a busy area like London it would cause untold frustration to all other road users.

2) The number of posters on here who seem to be backing them up suggesting that behaviour on the road is acceptable. Demonstrating that those two cyclist are not alone in their anti car/car frustrating thinking.

I have to say I don't commute in London so have no idea. I do see loads of posts on PH about road warrior cyclists in london and consider them almost always to be 6 of one and half a dozen of the other when angry driver meets annoyed cyclist. I considered myself to be rather on the fence and swayed by the fact we are over legislated already.

Having met said road warriors in their country form I consider them to be the unacceptable face of cycling if they were to appear in a busy area would be dangerous but in my country lane obviously just very frustrating.

because of 1) and 2) I have therefore come off the fence.

Is that clearer? Apologies for other readers where this is simply a reiteration of the posts so far.

[walm]

julian64 said:

The number of posters on here who seem to be backing them up suggesting that behaviour on the road is acceptable.

Citation needed.