RE: Audi TT RS: Review

[Leo-RS]

J4CKO said:

redroadster said:

we get to page 4 until someone points out the fantastic acceleration ,quite a rapid thing faster than an fq400 without 4000 mile servicing what a great daily driver would smoke nearly everything off the line .

Indeed, 3.7 to sixty, remember when 7.3 to sixty was pretty bloody quick ?

3.7 to 62 remember

Evo have managed 3.4 0-60 here...

http://www.evo.co.uk/audi/tt-rs/18262/audi-tt-rs-r...

The last car (335hp) was officially rated at 4.3 secs 0-62mph and the mags were testing it at 3.6-3.7secs so I suspect the times will dip down further into the low 3 secs with further/other reviews soon enough.

With a tune to nearly 500hp, you would think it would dip into the 2's. Of course, 2.x sec 0-60's are right on the limits of traction irrespective of how much power you put through the wheels.

VAG have always been conservative with their acceleration figures, in direct contrast to say Nissan's claims with their GTR's. They claim 2.7 60's but are frequently tested at 3.0-3.2.

Edited by Leo-RS on Wednesday 14th September 09:08

[Leo-RS]

EricE said:

Is that Co2 emissions number accurate?
301g/km would make this more expensive than a well equipped 991S due to taxes in the country I'm in.

Incorrect - 187g/km

For us in the UK, the emissions figures wont matter much post April 2017

[Rovnumpty]

While I would never buy one of these - I like stirring the gearbox myself - I can see the attraction for a great many people.

Got a mk1 TT sitting in the garage as a toy. Its not running massive horsepower, or had the suspension modified to 'be a better drivers car', or 'stanced' to within an inch of its life. It's reasonably standard, but never fails to raise a smile when I have it out. And I can take it out in ANY weather and have 'fun' in it. It's got two seats in the back that I can just about fit both kids into if need be. And it's a fantastic, quick car to drive along sections of the NC500 when I want to go for a drive.

Part of the attraction for me was the challenge of making it go quick through the corners.

All fast audi's I've been in are devastatingly quick piont to piont in any weather. For me, that's part of the attraction. I used to run some high power (for their day) capris. They were great fun, a recognised drivers car. But an absolute pain in the backside when just wanting to make 'progress' on a wet road. They very rarely came out the garage when it was wet or icy because of that. The TT goes out no matter the weather.

The current fad amongst the motoring magazines in the uk is for oversteer and 'oppo'. When that shifts again to other concerns, cars like fast audis and x-drive bmws will start to be viewed in a different light. Anybody remember how air cooled 911s were considered an accident waiting to happen in the 80's by the motoring press?

[IanJ9375]

Leo-RS said:

Incorrect - 187g/km

For us in the UK, the emissions figures wont matter much post April 2017

It will do on the "showroom tax" first year figure - 301g/km would have meant £2000! But if it's 187 as you say then it's £800.

The bigger problem from a VED point of view is the £40k+ RRP which means that the first 5yrs will incur and extra £310 per year on top of the £140 std VED rate

[angelicupstarts]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

Jam12321 said:

Leo-RS said:

You've sat in a new model TTRS? How have you managed to do that considering they were only released to the press on Monday?

Why will the screens look very old in a couple of years time? They are digital dashes and can be updated through a software update to keep up to date with the times. You mean the screen resolution? The screens in the first TT's released back in 2014 still look very modern today in 2016, same dash being used in the new R8's.

These screens may need an update in about 2022, just the same way the dashes from 2010 could do with an up date today.

Edited by Leo-RS on Tuesday 13th September 12:01

Well have you driven one, what makes you the bloody expert? Shock horror a normal TT is the same car as a TTRS... Having sat in a couple of new TT's i feel like i can comment on the new TTRS' interior quality.. Which is good, but glorious? its just simply not, its black plastic with chrome bits.. Classy.

Any screen given a few years looks old and outdated, a quality instrument binacle won't. You can update a screen's firmware as much as you want but if the hardware cannot supply modern resolution natively then you would need to rip out the device and replace it. It may look snazzy to you now but in 5 years it will look old and ste and no amount of 'updates' will sort that.

It's certainly an improvement on the MK1 TT interior, in my opinion. Round dials are pretty old school now. People want 'smart' everything these days and it wouldn't be very smart of Audi to ignore what their customers want.

Im not so sure , the clean lines , uncluttered look in the cabin of the mk1 has an appeal to me .
although your probably right about people wanting smart iPhone this I connect that tech these days , sometimes I long for a car that dosnt tell me everything from ..
1, a huge beep at 4 am in the morning whilst driving to let me know there is frost scares the poop out of me , worst still as I know there is frost as I spent 5 mins scraping it off windscreen .
2, failing mot as wheel sensor says I have flat tyre ..even though obviously round and full of air !
3, stupid electric windows ...two turns of the wrist stop where I want with winders , or fluffing around up and down with servos ...

apologies ...early morning rant ...coffee

[Gio G]

Anyone know if Audi will put this engine into any other models?

G

[s m]

Rovnumpty said:

While I would never buy one of these - I like stirring the gearbox myself - I can see the attraction for a great many people.

Got a mk1 TT sitting in the garage as a toy. Its not running massive horsepower, or had the suspension modified to 'be a better drivers car', or 'stanced' to within an inch of its life. It's reasonably standard, but never fails to raise a smile when I have it out. And I can take it out in ANY weather and have 'fun' in it. It's got two seats in the back that I can just about fit both kids into if need be. And it's a fantastic, quick car to drive along sections of the NC500 when I want to go for a drive.

Part of the attraction for me was the challenge of making it go quick through the corners.

All fast audi's I've been in are devastatingly quick piont to piont in any weather. For me, that's part of the attraction. I used to run some high power (for their day) capris. They were great fun, a recognised drivers car. But an absolute pain in the backside when just wanting to make 'progress' on a wet road. They very rarely came out the garage when it was wet or icy because of that. The TT goes out no matter the weather.

The current fad amongst the motoring magazines in the uk is for oversteer and 'oppo'. When that shifts again to other concerns, cars like fast audis and x-drive bmws will start to be viewed in a different light. Anybody remember how air cooled 911s were considered an accident waiting to happen in the 80's by the motoring press?

I do remember when Honda trumpeted their new rear wheel steering on the Prelude back in the 80s, some motoring journo wryly remarked that it was no new thing....Porsche had it on the 911 from the start!

The irony I think is that Audi came out with an edgy driver's car from the start with the TT, like many Porsches are ( GT2 etc ). They were just too mainstream to get away with it as the cars were more accessible to Joe Public price-wise.

As the Peugeot guy remarked on the launch of the 206GTi 180, they wouldn't be allowed to make a car that handled like the 205Gti these days ( although quite a few do if you switch off all the stability systems )

Edited by s m on Wednesday 14th September 09:41

[tankplanker]

The big issue I have with the Cayman and the Boxster is the additional cost over the TT RS once you have added basics like sat nav that I need in my daily driver that will come as standard in the TT RS. Start adding the extras like dual zone climate, LED headlights and the like that are standard on the TT RS and you'll end up with a significant spend on options for the Porsches.

Then if you get to the options on the TT RS most will want: R8 seats and wheel, magnetic drive and sports exhaust, I would put money on them being cheaper than the equivalent options on the Porsche.

Even if you manage to stay off the Porsche options list factoring in Audi's cheaper PCP/leasing costs due to greater subsidies and the monthly, which lets face it is what 95% of buyers will be using to get the car, it is going to be significantly cheaper to drive the Audi on a per month basis than the alternatives from Porsche.

If I was buying an out and out drivers car in this segment I'd be looking at the Exige 350 as it has the engine in the right place, six cylinders, its supercharged rather than turbo charged, its the lightest out of its competitors, it has the most feedback (even the Porsches come with electronic steering now) and it the dry is giving away the least to the TT RS in terms of performance. Of course the Exige is likely to be too much effort as most will be buying this sort of car new as a daily driver, in other words people are prepared to compromise on performance/feedback for usability far more readily than you'd expect.

I find it interesting that if the 718 Porsches had come with 6 cylinders even if smaller capacity than before and with turbos to make up the shortfall then much more would have been made of the TT RS being "only" 5 cylinders. Woe betide the TT RS if it had "only" been 4 cylinders as well. The Porsche is getting a relatively free ride here despite a significant downgrade from what was a very good "driver's" NA engine.

[Dagnut]

Surely the only reason to justify buying this is that you like the the looks/image of it over an RS3?
Which is a valid reason of course...but you can't quote all the performance, practicality, cabin, Audi traction blah blah when you can get all this for less in the RS3?

[Lowtimer]

tankplanker said:

The Porsche is getting a relatively free ride here despite a significant downgrade from what was a very good "driver's" NA engine.

I think for a lot of the younger people on here the loss of cylinder count is offset by the turbo four having much better numerical performance thn the n/a six. And when they drive it, it thumps them in the back all the way from the bottom of the midrange which seems to be what a generation brought up on turbodiesels wants. Let's not forget how many people complained about the last-gen n/a Cayman feeling overgeared and lacking mid-range punch. The low-end and mid-range grunt of the turbo four takes away those concerns on the typical short test drive.

For a lot of old gits like me anything which out-drags a Ferrari Daytona or 930 Turbo feels fast enough on UK roads, so once that ceases to be part of the buying decision the sources of fun are much more about the balance, the steering feel, the braking feel, the sound and other non-numerical qualities of the engine, the quality of the damping and so on. And that's where the last-gen Cayman beats the TT RS all round, and the current-gen one beats it on all but one category, albeit the TT RS engine is definitely a very strong one and I'd like to see it used more likely in the overall VAG universe. We used to have fives in Passats and Golfs after all, no real reason why we should not have them again.

[SuperchargedVR6]

hufggfg said:

Jam12321 said:

The screen is just part of it, a mobile phone from several years ago is noticeably slower to use in all situations. The technology employed here is evolving continuously, in 5 years just browsing the menus will feel slow even if it is running at the same rate it is now. Just think about how quickly you get used to using fast internet..

Chances are we will soon see more apple and android based systems in new cars rather than a manufacturers car software, apps like GMaps, Itunes, spotify, youtube. The technology just moves forward.

It just guarantees that in a number of years time the car will have an irritating 'feature' thats stuck in front of you all the time. little chance of one of those becoming a classic, who's going to fix the screen in 15-20 years if that goes?

Think those are fair points. The other thing is that I think all those people with the attitude of "but it's a screen so software updates will keep it looking current" are actually 100% wrong. Audi know their customers well, the typical Audi customer (for new cars) is probably relatively image conscious, and likes to have the latest things (tech particularly). The chances are that Audi will purposefully not update the software as soon as there is a newer version of the car out (of course they're not going to say they're refusing to do it, but you won't see any updates), as its hugely beneficial to them to have the guy that bought a new TT 3 years ago yearning for the new one because it's got the newer screen etc that does all these new things. Even if they technically could give you that in a software update, they won't.

Edited by hufggfg on Tuesday 13th September 19:04

I'd agree with that. Other than nav map updates, what actually needs updating? Does this car have facebook, Spotify, snapchat, news, air play and iTunes on it? It's updates that slow devices down over time. Bloatware to deliberately force you to upgrade to the newest tablet/phone/laptop, which quelle surprise, has a faster chip and more memory.

I've got a windows XP laptop at home which it's sole purpose is for running VAG diagnostics software. It's never been updated or connected to the network, and you know what? It's just as fast now as it was when I built it 5 years ago. So I don't buy into this notion that software just slows down of it's own accord. It only does so if it's been influenced to do so by the vendor(s).

Anyway, love the look of the new TT and it's interior but it's too rich for my blood. Anything German these days is bonkers money and I can't bring myself to rent a car. I'd rather own it outright.

[J4CKO]

Leo-RS said:

J4CKO said:

redroadster said:

we get to page 4 until someone points out the fantastic acceleration ,quite a rapid thing faster than an fq400 without 4000 mile servicing what a great daily driver would smoke nearly everything off the line .

Indeed, 3.7 to sixty, remember when 7.3 to sixty was pretty bloody quick ?

3.7 to 62 remember

Evo have managed 3.4 0-60 here...

http://www.evo.co.uk/audi/tt-rs/18262/audi-tt-rs-r...

The last car (335hp) was officially rated at 4.3 secs 0-62mph and the mags were testing it at 3.6-3.7secs so I suspect the times will dip down further into the low 3 secs with further/other reviews soon enough.

With a tune to nearly 500hp, you would think it would dip into the 2's. Of course, 2.x sec 0-60's are right on the limits of traction irrespective of how much power you put through the wheels.

VAG have always been conservative with their acceleration figures, in direct contrast to say Nissan's claims with their GTR's. They claim 2.7 60's but are frequently tested at 3.0-3.2.

Edited by Leo-RS on Wednesday 14th September 09:08

Yes, it was 62 wasnt it, but that didnt work with reversing the numbers so well makes it even more mind boggling, and though its only numbers it does show how far things have come, part of it is the 4wd, it being relatively light and double clutch malarkey but however it does it those figures are impressive.

I dont think the standard GTR is perhaps as quick as the sub 3 sec thing as a rule, obviously still bonkers quick but they get blitzed by a 991 Turbo S based on the video someone posted, which is listed as 3.1.

All a bit nerdy and ultimately a little pointless but still good fun.

[Matt Bird]

Hi all,

Good to see this has provoked some debate! Just to add that the CO2 figure has now been addressed, apologies for the original error.

Cheers,


Matt

[tankplanker]

Lowtimer said:

I think for a lot of the younger people on here the loss of cylinder count is offset by the turbo four having much better numerical performance thn the n/a six. And when they drive it, it thumps them in the back all the way from the bottom of the midrange which seems to be what a generation brought up on turbodiesels wants. Let's not forget how many people complained about the last-gen n/a Cayman feeling overgeared and lacking mid-range punch. The low-end and mid-range grunt of the turbo four takes away those concerns on the typical short test drive.

For a lot of old gits like me anything which out-drags a Ferrari Daytona or 930 Turbo feels fast enough on UK roads, so once that ceases to be part of the buying decision the sources of fun are much more about the balance, the steering feel, the braking feel, the sound and other non-numerical qualities of the engine, the quality of the damping and so on. And that's where the last-gen Cayman beats the TT RS all round, and the current-gen one beats it on all but one category, albeit the TT RS engine is definitely a very strong one and I'd like to see it used more likely in the overall VAG universe. We used to have fives in Passats and Golfs after all, no real reason why we should not have them again.

You'll not get any disagreement from me on the previous generation of Boxster/Cayman vs. the new TT RS even though they'll not see which way the TT RS went.

The engine is an incredibly important part of how the car feels to drive, in terms of overall power, power delivery and sound track. The engine in the 718 is a major negative for the 718 its frankly adds no more interest than the 4 pot in my Golf R for me and that has zero to do with how much power it makes and everything to do with the way it delivers power, the noise it makes and the extra weight it added to the car. Its the difference between a Fiat 124 and a MX-5 for me.

For the current generation I take it you've driven both the 718 and the new TT RS on the track? As those are bold statements to make if you haven't actually driven both.

[J4CKO]

I was walking the dog and heard something that sounded more than a bit handy being thrapped, was a smidge disappointing to spot it was a white Boxster, a 15 plate, would that be the six or the turbo four, assume it must have been the six on a 15, didnt get chance to listen properly, but was making a lot of noise for a Boxster.

[AMGJocky]

Leo-RS said:

You've sat in a new model TTRS? How have you managed to do that considering they were only released to the press on Monday?

Why will the screens look very old in a couple of years time? They are digital dashes and can be updated through a software update to keep up to date with the times. You mean the screen resolution? The screens in the first TT's released back in 2014 still look very modern today in 2016, same dash being used in the new R8's.

These screens may need an update in about 2022, just the same way the dashes from 2010 could do with an up date today.

On the straights, a 781 Cayman will look like a lethargic hamster next to this TTRS. The 781 looks awful from the rear end, it has no presence, you can tell its the baby in the entire Porsche range and that has always put me off the low end Porsche's. GT4 an exception, they look a lot better. TTRS is far more practical also and wins hands down there too.
Performance - TTRS
Practicality - TTRS
Engine - TTRS
Sound - TTRS
Traction - TTRS
Drifting - Cayman
Fuel Economy - Cayman (Just) 34.9mpg vs 34.4mpg

345hp in 2016/17 just doesn't cut the mustard in a £50k+ performance sports car. The TTRS's power output is just about right at 400hp and will no doubt be pushed up to 420 when the eventual + model is released. I'd be mega pis*ed not being able to keep up with a Golf R in my new 781.

Edited by Leo-RS on Tuesday 13th September 12:01

Sorry, but when is a 781 Cayman S going to struggle to keep up with a Golf R?! Deary me.

Edited by AMGJocky on Wednesday 14th September 11:46

[Dave Hedgehog]

Carman2 said:

Point is with remap etc 500hp easy with sub 3secs.for 50k. Still want a Gayman?

that proves the point exactly, not everyone wants to be the big man by nuking everything away from the lights

some people actually want a sports car that's engaging and fun, launch control is not fun and takes zero skill

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Wednesday 14th September 11:20

[AMGJocky]

Carman2 said:

Point is with remap etc 500hp easy with sub 3secs.for 50k. Still want a Gayman?

Yawn.

Dave Hedgehog said:

some people actually want a sports car that's engaging and fun, launch control is not fun and takes zero skill

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Wednesday 14th September 11:20

[Terminator X]

MX5 for you chaps, pls stick to the slow lane though

TX.

[HannsG]

I can't understand why so many say Audi's are dull?

I am BMW M man myself having owned a few. Are the RS versions really 'dull'? whats missing?