RE: Audi TT RS: Review
Discussion
caymanbill said:
You still don't seem to have understood my original post. I wasn't trying gereralise RWD car drivers. It was a genuine question regarding oversteer.
To reiterate, my question was In terms of oversteer "fun", does anyone actually manage to do this on public roads anyway? How often does the opportunity present itself? Surely this is dangerous on all but completely empty roads in the middle of nowhere, from which you can see around the bend?
Of course I understand your question... why do you think I'd be able to answer it for the whole forum? To reiterate, my question was In terms of oversteer "fun", does anyone actually manage to do this on public roads anyway? How often does the opportunity present itself? Surely this is dangerous on all but completely empty roads in the middle of nowhere, from which you can see around the bend?
Edited by caymanbill on Sunday 18th September 22:19
Edited by caymanbill on Sunday 18th September 22:20
If, IF, you mean Chris Harris stylee then personally I don't. Very ccasionally coming out a slow tight bend on a country road I know well, clear sight lines, I might give it a little extra to get the back to stepout. Plenty of space, early Sunday morning. The Cayman S allows a little slip then kills it. No mad, lurid, crazy stuff though... it's an involving, enjoyable car on B roads at legal speeds.
So back at you... is roaring along at the warp speeds RS lovers are so horny over and quote as the reason to have the car, is that really any safer on the public roads?
HighwayStar said:
Remember this....
"I also disagree that the TT is all about image, ,there's more to car ownership then drifting around corners sideways, i.e being able to tour around europe in "GT" style comfort, a nice cabin for the boring stuff etc etc"
You're the one bleating on about oversteer and sideways on the roads.
Travelling in style and comfort can be done in a Cayman, the TTS interior is a bit more stylish granted but it's not I'm exactly slumping it.
And note... I've had 3 TT's... a 225 Quattro for 6 yrs, a MK2 TT 2.0l TFSI (boring, had it 4 weeks) & a TTS for 5 years so I'm know what I'm talking about... Twice I looked at the RS, both tests drives just confirmed it nothing more than faster than the TTS with the same numb, disconnected uninvolving drive. The noise it made wasn't going to make up for its lack of driving pleasure.... If simply going fast and hanging on is your bag then of course it's the car for you.
I'll never tell someone they've bought the wrong car if it's what they wanted... I'm just giving my opinion on what's right for me.
You are free to think of it and me what you will and say what you like... I don't care.
So you hated them yet had 3 over a period of 11 years "I also disagree that the TT is all about image, ,there's more to car ownership then drifting around corners sideways, i.e being able to tour around europe in "GT" style comfort, a nice cabin for the boring stuff etc etc"
You're the one bleating on about oversteer and sideways on the roads.
Travelling in style and comfort can be done in a Cayman, the TTS interior is a bit more stylish granted but it's not I'm exactly slumping it.
And note... I've had 3 TT's... a 225 Quattro for 6 yrs, a MK2 TT 2.0l TFSI (boring, had it 4 weeks) & a TTS for 5 years so I'm know what I'm talking about... Twice I looked at the RS, both tests drives just confirmed it nothing more than faster than the TTS with the same numb, disconnected uninvolving drive. The noise it made wasn't going to make up for its lack of driving pleasure.... If simply going fast and hanging on is your bag then of course it's the car for you.
I'll never tell someone they've bought the wrong car if it's what they wanted... I'm just giving my opinion on what's right for me.
You are free to think of it and me what you will and say what you like... I don't care.
TX.
Leo-RS said:
On a hot summers day perhaps but I live in Scotland where I would say a minimum of 250 of the 365 days in a year the roads are cold/damp or soaking wet. 250 days minimum where you wouldn't dare dream of accelerating hard in 1st or 2nd gear in an M5 with 600hp. After 3 months, an engine failure and then a subsequent gearbox issue on its return, I managed to reject the car. My first rear wheel drive experience was not great.
It's not just about feathering the throttle in a powerful rear wheel drive car, it's the feeling that the electronics aren't giving you the full whack in 1st or 2nd, you can feel the 'hold back'
You will only understand what I mean by being familiar with Audi Quattro, S-Tronic/DSG/PDK launch control and low end traction. Even rolling from 5mph 1st gear, RS6 vs M5, the RS6 would get around a cruise ship length ahead of the M5 before 100% of the M5's power went down onto the tarmac.
As for Cayman vs Golf R, the same applies, the Golf R has tremendous traction and a 5mph side by side on a cold damp Octobers morning and the Golf will be half way down the road before the Cayman has full traction. On a drag strip side by side, the Golf R will post a quicker time 100%, I see it month in month out at my local dragstrip. The Golf R market is saturated in a modified cars, I think it's safe to presume that at least 50% of Golf R's you encounter on the road will be software tuned, majority of these approaching 400hp. Due to the 987 Cayman being N/A, I'd estimate less than 5% of Cayman 987's to be modified to increase power. The new 718 Cayman at least has forced induction so the option for increasing the power is there but something tells me that most 718 Cayman's will remain standard still.
4wd with a dedicated launch control feature in a 1500kg car with 300-400hp are all the ingredients you need to achieve 60 in the 3's, 100's in the 8's and 1/4m times in the 11's. Take out the 4wd from that list of ingredients and the times dip substantially. You may get the odd rwd car launching well with its launch control feature but conditions have to be at optimum, engine over the back and with super sticky tyres and a bit of luck you may achieve 4 out of 10 good launches. Hop into a Golf R though, you'll achieve 10/10 good launches.
Launch control, dragstrip racing, not real world I hear you say? Well the same could be said about Nurburgring lap times or how many G's you can pull in a drift around a blind B road bend.
A little off topic. It's not just about feathering the throttle in a powerful rear wheel drive car, it's the feeling that the electronics aren't giving you the full whack in 1st or 2nd, you can feel the 'hold back'
You will only understand what I mean by being familiar with Audi Quattro, S-Tronic/DSG/PDK launch control and low end traction. Even rolling from 5mph 1st gear, RS6 vs M5, the RS6 would get around a cruise ship length ahead of the M5 before 100% of the M5's power went down onto the tarmac.
As for Cayman vs Golf R, the same applies, the Golf R has tremendous traction and a 5mph side by side on a cold damp Octobers morning and the Golf will be half way down the road before the Cayman has full traction. On a drag strip side by side, the Golf R will post a quicker time 100%, I see it month in month out at my local dragstrip. The Golf R market is saturated in a modified cars, I think it's safe to presume that at least 50% of Golf R's you encounter on the road will be software tuned, majority of these approaching 400hp. Due to the 987 Cayman being N/A, I'd estimate less than 5% of Cayman 987's to be modified to increase power. The new 718 Cayman at least has forced induction so the option for increasing the power is there but something tells me that most 718 Cayman's will remain standard still.
4wd with a dedicated launch control feature in a 1500kg car with 300-400hp are all the ingredients you need to achieve 60 in the 3's, 100's in the 8's and 1/4m times in the 11's. Take out the 4wd from that list of ingredients and the times dip substantially. You may get the odd rwd car launching well with its launch control feature but conditions have to be at optimum, engine over the back and with super sticky tyres and a bit of luck you may achieve 4 out of 10 good launches. Hop into a Golf R though, you'll achieve 10/10 good launches.
Launch control, dragstrip racing, not real world I hear you say? Well the same could be said about Nurburgring lap times or how many G's you can pull in a drift around a blind B road bend.
Edited by Leo-RS on Thursday 15th September 09:03
Obviously you have had a bad taste left in your mouth from the M5 which is unfortunate. Specially with the engine failure. That is very very rare, with people running well over 8-900 bhp in the states with no major engine upgrades
Also as your into tuning and straight line performance, the 3xRS6's got no where near a friends m5 at last weekends vmax event afaik. So your comparison (cruise ship lead) is a little unjust.
I do understand the low speed wet weather issues in a high powered rwd car but that is the preference of many high performance car builders.
Oh and i Love the RS6 and will no doubt own one at some point so am not biased.
The New TTRS will be bought by many petrol heads who actually are scared of RWD cars ( i know some ) which there is no shame in admitting as in the wrong hands powerful RWD cars can be lethal.
I had the old TTRS + and thought it was a great little car but was in fact a little numb... but sounded great and was a lovely placed to be so that kinda levelled things out ..
Terminator X said:
HighwayStar said:
Remember this....
"I also disagree that the TT is all about image, ,there's more to car ownership then drifting around corners sideways, i.e being able to tour around europe in "GT" style comfort, a nice cabin for the boring stuff etc etc"
You're the one bleating on about oversteer and sideways on the roads.
Travelling in style and comfort can be done in a Cayman, the TTS interior is a bit more stylish granted but it's not I'm exactly slumping it.
And note... I've had 3 TT's... a 225 Quattro for 6 yrs, a MK2 TT 2.0l TFSI (boring, had it 4 weeks) & a TTS for 5 years so I'm know what I'm talking about... Twice I looked at the RS, both tests drives just confirmed it nothing more than faster than the TTS with the same numb, disconnected uninvolving drive. The noise it made wasn't going to make up for its lack of driving pleasure.... If simply going fast and hanging on is your bag then of course it's the car for you.
I'll never tell someone they've bought the wrong car if it's what they wanted... I'm just giving my opinion on what's right for me.
You are free to think of it and me what you will and say what you like... I don't care.
So you hated them yet had 3 over a period of 11 years "I also disagree that the TT is all about image, ,there's more to car ownership then drifting around corners sideways, i.e being able to tour around europe in "GT" style comfort, a nice cabin for the boring stuff etc etc"
You're the one bleating on about oversteer and sideways on the roads.
Travelling in style and comfort can be done in a Cayman, the TTS interior is a bit more stylish granted but it's not I'm exactly slumping it.
And note... I've had 3 TT's... a 225 Quattro for 6 yrs, a MK2 TT 2.0l TFSI (boring, had it 4 weeks) & a TTS for 5 years so I'm know what I'm talking about... Twice I looked at the RS, both tests drives just confirmed it nothing more than faster than the TTS with the same numb, disconnected uninvolving drive. The noise it made wasn't going to make up for its lack of driving pleasure.... If simply going fast and hanging on is your bag then of course it's the car for you.
I'll never tell someone they've bought the wrong car if it's what they wanted... I'm just giving my opinion on what's right for me.
You are free to think of it and me what you will and say what you like... I don't care.
TX.
I do see your point, but not quite.Previously French hot hatches were my weapons of choice. 205 GTi 1.9, Clio 16V and a 306 GTi-6. After the 306 Pug had by then made the brilliant decision that building boring cars was the way to go. Around this I also felt I wanted some quality and substance, Golfs were overweight, underpowered and merely living off the GTI name.
A friend suggested the TT. I did love my 225 Quattro, I knew it wasn't going to get close in handling and involvement terms to my previous cars but it had a charm about it. One morning I opened the blinds and it had gone. They'd broken in the house and took the keys.
What I really wanted was a E92 M3 but running costs meant that was a none starter. The 2.0l TFSI, hands up, big mistake, very short lived. 4 weeks later a TTS... I knew what I was getting. It was fast, a nice place to be but not going to be that entertaining. It was a compromise I was willing to make as it was easy to live with and compared to a V8 M3 my friend got around the same time, ridiculously easy on the pocket. Yes it was very practical etc but even 3 days on the Evo Triangle and surrounding roads, it was never truly fun to drive,
Last year the mortgage went. Share save money cashed in this year. TTS traded in in April and came away with a 981 Cayman S. It isn't the fastest thing on the road but it's a great car, lovely just pootling in traffic. Dramatic and involving when pressing on on my favourite B roads.
So yes, an extended period off TT compromise but now, IMO, a proper sports car.
HighwayStar said:
I do see your point, but not quite.Previously French hot hatches were my weapons of choice. 205 GTi 1.9, Clio 16V and a 306 GTi-6. After the 306 Pug had by then made the brilliant decision that building boring cars was the way to go. Around this I also felt I wanted some quality and substance, Golfs were overweight, underpowered and merely living off the GTI name.
A friend suggested the TT. I did love my 225 Quattro, I knew it wasn't going to get close in handling and involvement terms to my previous cars but it had a charm about it. One morning I opened the blinds and it had gone. They'd broken in the house and took the keys.
What I really wanted was a E92 M3 but running costs meant that was a none starter. The 2.0l TFSI, hands up, big mistake, very short lived. 4 weeks later a TTS... I knew what I was getting. It was fast, a nice place to be but not going to be that entertaining. It was a compromise I was willing to make as it was easy to live with and compared to a V8 M3 my friend got around the same time, ridiculously easy on the pocket. Yes it was very practical etc but even 3 days on the Evo Triangle and surrounding roads, it was never truly fun to drive,
Last year the mortgage went. Share save money cashed in this year. TTS traded in in April and came away with a 981 Cayman S. It isn't the fastest thing on the road but it's a great car, lovely just pootling in traffic. Dramatic and involving when pressing on on my favourite B roads.
So yes, an extended period off TT compromise but now, IMO, a proper sports car.
as someone who believes that a std Elise, MX5 or GT86 are great driver's cars despite lack of headline power, it's funny that you should 'apologise' for a Cayman S not being the fastest. That's a pretty complete package and not short of power in my book.
caymanbill said:
You still don't seem to have understood my original post. I wasn't trying gereralise RWD car drivers. It was a genuine question regarding oversteer.
To reiterate, my question was In terms of oversteer "fun", does anyone actually manage to do this on public roads anyway? How often does the opportunity present itself? Surely this is dangerous on all but completely empty roads in the middle of nowhere, from which you can see around the bend?
I don't think many people do it regularly, I certainly don't. Power oversteer is not even part of the reason that I generally prefer a RWD chassis to a 4wd one. To reiterate, my question was In terms of oversteer "fun", does anyone actually manage to do this on public roads anyway? How often does the opportunity present itself? Surely this is dangerous on all but completely empty roads in the middle of nowhere, from which you can see around the bend?
CABC said:
HighwayStar said:
I do see your point, but not quite.Previously French hot hatches were my weapons of choice. 205 GTi 1.9, Clio 16V and a 306 GTi-6. After the 306 Pug had by then made the brilliant decision that building boring cars was the way to go. Around this I also felt I wanted some quality and substance, Golfs were overweight, underpowered and merely living off the GTI name.
A friend suggested the TT. I did love my 225 Quattro, I knew it wasn't going to get close in handling and involvement terms to my previous cars but it had a charm about it. One morning I opened the blinds and it had gone. They'd broken in the house and took the keys.
What I really wanted was a E92 M3 but running costs meant that was a none starter. The 2.0l TFSI, hands up, big mistake, very short lived. 4 weeks later a TTS... I knew what I was getting. It was fast, a nice place to be but not going to be that entertaining. It was a compromise I was willing to make as it was easy to live with and compared to a V8 M3 my friend got around the same time, ridiculously easy on the pocket. Yes it was very practical etc but even 3 days on the Evo Triangle and surrounding roads, it was never truly fun to drive,
Last year the mortgage went. Share save money cashed in this year. TTS traded in in April and came away with a 981 Cayman S. It isn't the fastest thing on the road but it's a great car, lovely just pootling in traffic. Dramatic and involving when pressing on on my favourite B roads.
So yes, an extended period off TT compromise but now, IMO, a proper sports car.
as someone who believes that a std Elise, MX5 or GT86 are great driver's cars despite lack of headline power, it's funny that you should 'apologise' for a Cayman S not being the fastest. That's a pretty complete package and not short of power in my book.
It was in know way an apology, it was more to head off of the usual yes but you could have a TTS, RS, X, Y or Z. Remap it, stage 2 the sh!t out it and I'd have a car that would blow my Croc S into next week. Outright speed has never been the objective, I can see you understand this.
Since I've had the Cayman I can honestly say I don't feel the need for more power or pace. Yes it's easy to say but for me it's more than fast enough for the public roads and just about perfect size. I was lucky enough to have loan of the previous R8 V10 Plus for a day... great and all that too much car to truly enjoy. Fair play those who have those type of cars and I love seeing them but for me... the Flat 6 Cayman is just as you say, the perfect package.
Slightly off topic
I have been looking into the purchase of various cars in this bracket. My lease on the S1 finishes in March 25th 2018
The Outline lead times I have been given are as follow
TTRS currently we can not tell you when ordering will open/reopen? Please have a test drive.
718 Cayman 7/8 Months from receipt of order
M2 14 months from the help guru online please contact each dealer individually my nearest being Stevenage.
These are hardly niche manufacturers is the demand that great or are they holding back production to help residuals?
I have been looking into the purchase of various cars in this bracket. My lease on the S1 finishes in March 25th 2018
The Outline lead times I have been given are as follow
TTRS currently we can not tell you when ordering will open/reopen? Please have a test drive.
718 Cayman 7/8 Months from receipt of order
M2 14 months from the help guru online please contact each dealer individually my nearest being Stevenage.
These are hardly niche manufacturers is the demand that great or are they holding back production to help residuals?
DamianQS said:
Slightly off topic
I have been looking into the purchase of various cars in this bracket. My lease on the S1 finishes in March 25th 2018
The Outline lead times I have been given are as follow
TTRS currently we can not tell you when ordering will open/reopen? Please have a test drive.
718 Cayman 7/8 Months from receipt of order
M2 14 months from the help guru online please contact each dealer individually my nearest being Stevenage.
These are hardly niche manufacturers is the demand that great or are they holding back production to help residuals?
TTRS, on the TT forum, they've been moaning about availability for months... There is a big issue with air con refrigerant.I have been looking into the purchase of various cars in this bracket. My lease on the S1 finishes in March 25th 2018
The Outline lead times I have been given are as follow
TTRS currently we can not tell you when ordering will open/reopen? Please have a test drive.
718 Cayman 7/8 Months from receipt of order
M2 14 months from the help guru online please contact each dealer individually my nearest being Stevenage.
These are hardly niche manufacturers is the demand that great or are they holding back production to help residuals?
718 Cayman, this came later than the Boxster and neither car are made in massive numbers hence the wait.
M2, not a limited production car as such but the plant that produces the 2 series is at full capacity. BMW will produce as many as they can but the other stuff takes priority... I read somewhere on Bimmerpost yesterday that M2 production rate had been raised.
It appears you couldn't have picked a worse 3 options in terms of getting hold of one. March 2018 is still 14 months away, put in some phone time calling various dealers and I'm sure you'd eventually get lucky with the Cayman or M2.
Murmuring are the TT RS order book might open around June/July.
HighwayStar said:
TTRS, on the TT forum, they've been moaning about availability for months... There is a big issue with air con refrigerant.
718 Cayman, this came later than the Boxster and neither car are made in massive numbers hence the wait.
M2, not a limited production car as such but the plant that produces the 2 series is at full capacity. BMW will produce as many as they can but the other stuff takes priority... I read somewhere on Bimmerpost yesterday that M2 production rate had been raised.
It appears you couldn't have picked a worse 3 options in terms of getting hold of one. March 2018 is still 14 months away, put in some phone time calling various dealers and I'm sure you'd eventually get lucky with the Cayman or M2.
Murmuring are the TT RS order book might open around June/July.
It does seem from my initial investigation that the shortlist I have chosen is full of difficult options .My nearest Audi has TTRS available to drive .Another slightly more practical possibility I may test drive is the Mercedes C43 Coupe although the lack of a manual is big minus along with the TTRS. In terms of availability Mercedes currently has shortest lead time followed by Cayman 718 .M2 and TTRS look like long shots . 718 Cayman, this came later than the Boxster and neither car are made in massive numbers hence the wait.
M2, not a limited production car as such but the plant that produces the 2 series is at full capacity. BMW will produce as many as they can but the other stuff takes priority... I read somewhere on Bimmerpost yesterday that M2 production rate had been raised.
It appears you couldn't have picked a worse 3 options in terms of getting hold of one. March 2018 is still 14 months away, put in some phone time calling various dealers and I'm sure you'd eventually get lucky with the Cayman or M2.
Murmuring are the TT RS order book might open around June/July.
The Plus point for the M2 over the Cayman was the back seats ,my wife is getting a dog and we may need to occasionally(Very Occasionally) transport it .
DamianQS said:
HighwayStar said:
TTRS, on the TT forum, they've been moaning about availability for months... There is a big issue with air con refrigerant.
718 Cayman, this came later than the Boxster and neither car are made in massive numbers hence the wait.
M2, not a limited production car as such but the plant that produces the 2 series is at full capacity. BMW will produce as many as they can but the other stuff takes priority... I read somewhere on Bimmerpost yesterday that M2 production rate had been raised.
It appears you couldn't have picked a worse 3 options in terms of getting hold of one. March 2018 is still 14 months away, put in some phone time calling various dealers and I'm sure you'd eventually get lucky with the Cayman or M2.
Murmuring are the TT RS order book might open around June/July.
It does seem from my initial investigation that the shortlist I have chosen is full of difficult options .My nearest Audi has TTRS available to drive .Another slightly more practical possibility I may test drive is the Mercedes C43 Coupe although the lack of a manual is big minus along with the TTRS. In terms of availability Mercedes currently has shortest lead time followed by Cayman 718 .M2 and TTRS look like long shots . 718 Cayman, this came later than the Boxster and neither car are made in massive numbers hence the wait.
M2, not a limited production car as such but the plant that produces the 2 series is at full capacity. BMW will produce as many as they can but the other stuff takes priority... I read somewhere on Bimmerpost yesterday that M2 production rate had been raised.
It appears you couldn't have picked a worse 3 options in terms of getting hold of one. March 2018 is still 14 months away, put in some phone time calling various dealers and I'm sure you'd eventually get lucky with the Cayman or M2.
Murmuring are the TT RS order book might open around June/July.
The Plus point for the M2 over the Cayman was the back seats ,my wife is getting a dog and we may need to occasionally(Very Occasionally) transport it .
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