RE: Lotus Exige 350 Special Edition
Discussion
cib24 said:
Anyway, does the Evora 400 have the same modifications to the gear linkage as the Exige Sport 350? You often read the gear change on Lotus cars are not very good (not like a Honda or Porsche for example) but the Exige Sport 350 apparently made a huge stride in this regard and I wonder if it also affected the 400.
Yes, same mechanism/changes. Although it looks a lot better in the Exige though. kambites said:
There's no doubting that the Exiges sills keep it from being a mainstream choice... but does it need to be? Of course they could have produced a more comfort focussed car with lower sills without compromising chassis stiffness; in fact they did, it's the Evora. http://www.lotuscars.com/evora-sport-410
A big part of the Elise and Exige's appeal is that they are small and light. The reality of that is that some people in the last decile of size won't find them comfortable.
DonkeyApple said:
Buyers today are also the same people who spend heavily on personal image
physically excluding a large number of potential buyers they have failed to understand that at the same time a large number of short blokes don't rush to buy things that draw draw attention to their shortness, such as flat soles shoes or Lotus cars. Most short blokes tend to want to buy things that intimate they are taller than they actually are.
auto boxes, easier access, bigger stats and fancier interiors
Sniped the main bits.physically excluding a large number of potential buyers they have failed to understand that at the same time a large number of short blokes don't rush to buy things that draw draw attention to their shortness, such as flat soles shoes or Lotus cars. Most short blokes tend to want to buy things that intimate they are taller than they actually are.
auto boxes, easier access, bigger stats and fancier interiors
That will be a sad sad day when Lotus comes away from it's roots to make a boring, safe, look how much money I have 'sports car' like every other manufacturer.
The thing that attracts me to Lotus is that they are no frills, they are about the drive and the experience for the driver. You don't need to be rich to own one, just have a love of what real sports cars should be about.
It's compromised, but so it should be!
p.s 6'3" and 16st. In an out of an S2 Exige like a greased otter.
saaby93 said:
DonkeyApple said:
The long and short of it being they still need a halo model. The Evora just isn't it. It has the absolutely perfect under pinnings to be so but they need to clothe it in a far more sleek and expensive wrapper. Having a genuine premium halo car will be the quickest way to increase sales of the current cars.
The SUV?The pretence of needing to go off-road or even being 4ed is really over now but most manufacturers are hobbled still by this archaic legacy that hasn't been relevant this century to the SUV niche.
But it looks like Lamborghini will be first with the Uris when Lotus could have owned the performance, lightweight SUV sector and just made it theirs.
I think their SUV intentions rather than being an amazing Bowler Nemisis type vehicle is more targeted at being a cheap, stamped out steel, SUV for the Asian market?
kambites said:
DonkeyApple said:
The Lotus business structure is geared for considerably more volume than they currently deliver. If they could afford to make the changes to the Exige and increase sales volumes then I suspect they would as they need to.
From the perspective of the current pool who'd buy an Exige you are spot on but the reality is that a few smart changes would increase the size of that pool considerably.
You may be right, but personally I can't imagine what "smart" changes they could make? They can't ease access without significantly increasing weight and/or price which would push the thing so close to the Evora that it would be pointless. From the perspective of the current pool who'd buy an Exige you are spot on but the reality is that a few smart changes would increase the size of that pool considerably.
Personally I think their choice is between ditching the Exige/Elise line-up completely or leaving it pretty much as it is. Right now the Exige at least is selling so they have little incentive to get rid of it.
Edited by kambites on Friday 7th October 08:42
DonkeyApple said:
saaby93 said:
DonkeyApple said:
The long and short of it being they still need a halo model. The Evora just isn't it. It has the absolutely perfect under pinnings to be so but they need to clothe it in a far more sleek and expensive wrapper. Having a genuine premium halo car will be the quickest way to increase sales of the current cars.
The SUV?The pretence of needing to go off-road or even being 4ed is really over now but most manufacturers are hobbled still by this archaic legacy that hasn't been relevant this century to the SUV niche.
But it looks like Lamborghini will be first with the Uris when Lotus could have owned the performance, lightweight SUV sector and just made it theirs.
I think their SUV intentions rather than being an amazing Bowler Nemisis type vehicle is more targeted at being a cheap, stamped out steel, SUV for the Asian market?
A cash strapped company moving away from it's roots into a highly controversial segment that was unproven - what could possibly go wrong!
Bye bye Lotus
DonkeyApple said:
I would agree. Given the track pretensions (not meant in a negative way) the cost of making the changes would probably be hard to recoup but I do think that the business needs a proper, road focussed halo model that will basically be a tool to increase sales of the existing cars. The fact that the company and the media keep pitching the Evora against the bottom of the range Porsche sports cars shows that they are missing an actual halo car to take the image argument to where it needs to be.
A halo model is an interesting one for Lotus; on the one hand, the "junior supercar" market is more crowded and talented than it's ever been before, on the other it's also drifted further away from what Lotus do well which arguably has created space for them to produce something with a genuine unique selling point. As has been noted before, Lotus's single biggest problem at the moment seems to be that most potential customers for the Evora don't even realise the thing exists and even those who do have probably never seen one in let alone driven one. I remember reading somewhere that the Evora has one of the highest test-drive to purchase ratios of any car on the market... they just need to get more people to test drive them.
Edited by kambites on Friday 7th October 10:19
Herbs said:
Benefit of hindsight.
A cash strapped company moving away from it's roots into a highly controversial segment that was unproven - what could possibly go wrong!
Bye bye Lotus
Agreed but for me, when Porsche brought out the big, fat Cayenne Turbo I looked at Lotus and thought that this was the segment where they could decimate the incumbents and turn far bigger margins and volumes than on any sports car they ever make. It's been clear for years that this was the automotive space for sports car builders to get into to underpin their original business. A cash strapped company moving away from it's roots into a highly controversial segment that was unproven - what could possibly go wrong!
Bye bye Lotus
Ozzie Osmond said:
Herbs said:
A cash strapped company moving away from it's roots into a highly controversial segment that was unproven - what could possibly go wrong!
At this stage it's a good question what Lotus roots actually are.DonkeyApple said:
Herbs said:
Benefit of hindsight.
A cash strapped company moving away from it's roots into a highly controversial segment that was unproven - what could possibly go wrong!
Bye bye Lotus
Agreed but for me, when Porsche brought out the big, fat Cayenne Turbo I looked at Lotus and thought that this was the segment where they could decimate the incumbents and turn far bigger margins and volumes than on any sports car they ever make. It's been clear for years that this was the automotive space for sports car builders to get into to underpin their original business. A cash strapped company moving away from it's roots into a highly controversial segment that was unproven - what could possibly go wrong!
Bye bye Lotus
The saying "money makes money" applies to companies as well as individuals.
DonkeyApple said:
The other big issue that again the current management are fully aware of and redressing as they can afford to is that for decades Lotus cars have been built for malnourished Hobbits, a pretty niche market. 
. But also, as well as physically excluding a large number of potential buyers they have failed to understand that at the same time a large number of short blokes don't rush to buy things that draw draw attention to their shortness, such as flat soles shoes or Lotus cars. Most short blokes tend to want to buy things that intimate they are taller than they actually are.
I'm 5'6, and have never even considered it. If I were to, I think I'd be less drawn to a car that looks like I'm trying to compensate. I suppose there probably are some blokes who think like that, and they would buy some monstrous SUV.. But also, as well as physically excluding a large number of potential buyers they have failed to understand that at the same time a large number of short blokes don't rush to buy things that draw draw attention to their shortness, such as flat soles shoes or Lotus cars. Most short blokes tend to want to buy things that intimate they are taller than they actually are. kambites said:
DonkeyApple said:
I would agree. Given the track pretensions (not meant in a negative way) the cost of making the changes would probably be hard to recoup but I do think that the business needs a proper, road focussed halo model that will basically be a tool to increase sales of the existing cars. The fact that the company and the media keep pitching the Evora against the bottom of the range Porsche sports cars shows that they are missing an actual halo car to take the image argument to where it needs to be.
A halo model is an interesting one for Lotus; on the one hand, the "junior supercar" market is more crowded and talented than it's ever been before, on the other it's also drifted further away from what Lotus do well which arguably has created space for them to produce something with a genuine unique selling point. As has been noted before, Lotus's single biggest problem at the moment seems to be that most potential customers for the Evora don't even realise the thing exists and even those who do have probably never seen one in let alone driven one. I remember reading somewhere that the Evora has one of the highest test-drive to purchase ratios of any car on the market... they just need to get more people to test drive them.
Edited by kambites on Friday 7th October 10:19
I think Donkey Apple made the point elsewhere that (aside from requiring -ugh- product placement) it unfortunately looks a tiny bit dumpy and Halfords post-400 facelift. Perhaps the car could therefore appear a bit more 'upmarket' with minimal changes.
The simplest way of dealing with the Exige's sills is to lose the roof altogether. But I agree the interior is truly awful in places and it could be easily modernised/made slightly less spartan for minimal weight and cost. Buyers are simply becoming a bunch of big girls' blouses. Even if some of us don't want a bloody Porsche...
I can foresee the 'Elise Classic' continuing in production post the new car due in 2020 for the real puritans, whereas the mainstream car (New Elise/Elan/Europa?) becomes more like a smaller Evora. The Evora could THEN progress a bit more upmarket/halo when its time comes around.
k me it's loud) one in the plastic, and it was very nice.DonkeyApple said:
Ares said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
When they launched this version at Geneva I thought "that's the car for me" but when I got to try one the access, accommodation and rear visibility were unacceptable. Most particularly the door looks OK from outside the car but when you open it you find that humungous sill,
In short, you need to MTFU. This is a sports car. Not a 3-series.I'm quite sure no-one, in the history of designing the best sports cars around, lost sleep over slightly diminished rear visibility and the ease of chubbsters to get in and out.
Another couple of issues is that the interior really isn't nice at all. Lotus have come a huge way in the last few years but the cabin has too many legacies of their post Esprit business model of being as cheap and plasticy as possible. The new management, who are the best thing to have happened to Lotus in 20 years, are having to make do with an awful lot of the 'look we're really cheap!' tat from the previous managers but at least it is clear that they are getting rid of that stuff as quickly as they can afford to.
The other big issue that again the current management are fully aware of and redressing as they can afford to is that for decades Lotus cars have been built for malnourished Hobbits, a pretty niche market.
. But also, as well as physically excluding a large number of potential buyers they have failed to understand that at the same time a large number of short blokes don't rush to buy things that draw draw attention to their shortness, such as flat soles shoes or Lotus cars. Most short blokes tend to want to buy things that intimate they are taller than they actually are. Lotus are making the best cars they have in decades but crucially the management know what they have to do to increase sales volumes. It will involve auto boxes, easier access, bigger stats and fancier interiors as they do seem to clearly understand what it takes in the image is everything 21st century to sell debt packages with a free personal image enhancing product thrown in.
I really don't see slightly awkward rear vision and slightly wider sills, plus stripped out interiors as being an inhibitor to significant sales for Lotus. IMO of course. I wouldn't want to see the Exige become a flabby Cayman competitor. Lotus is about light weight and no compromises. My argument is that it is the fatter cars that are the compromised ones
kambites said:
You may be right, but personally I can't imagine what "smart" changes they could make? They can't ease access without significantly increasing weight and/or price which would push the thing so close to the Evora that it would be pointless.
Personally I think their choice is between ditching the Exige/Elise line-up completely or leaving it pretty much as it is. Right now the Exige at least is selling so they have little incentive to get rid of it.
Exactly. Lotus is all about light weight. The one thing car enthusiasts crave and complaint about with modern cars. Lotus are the only real manufacturer doing this with their cars, and yet now enthusiasts complain that fatties can't get in very easily. Personally I think their choice is between ditching the Exige/Elise line-up completely or leaving it pretty much as it is. Right now the Exige at least is selling so they have little incentive to get rid of it.
Edited by kambites on Friday 7th October 08:42
Lightweight starts with the driver ;-) Maybe lotus doesn't want chubbsters driving their cars.....
I wish they'd start making cars more like the 2-Eleven. Target weight of 750kg, but a modern Elise with a windscreen. We've got a 2-Eleven and a new 220 Sport, the 220 Sport is really nice but the 2-Eleven is just alive with feedback especially in the steering and braking departments. Keep the Exige and bin the rest. Downsize the business and target a more specialist market. They are never going to compete with any volume manufacturers without massive investment and they should stop trying.
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