RE: Honda Civic Type R (EK9): PH Heroes

[SaqibCTR]

Definitely a hero.

Don't think I could ever sell my EK9.

I'd recommend the 4.78 final drive and the steel exhaust manifold from the 98 Spec DC2 (UK model also has the 4.78FD but not the better manifold) as this makes quite a difference. The above won't cost you too much either.

I've also got Spoon fixed suspension, AD08R tyres, other breathing mods, metal sintered RC5 brake pads with decent blank discs and it's incredible to drive on B-road blasts and round Knockhill.

[leonintegra36]

Escy said:

The market wasn't that strong, you could get them for sub 4k easily at that point, by the time I worked out what it was going to cost to sort out it didn't make sense (needed the correct headlights, front bumper painting, 3rd gear synchro, a couple of ball joints, some original EK9 suspension/coilovers). It just didn't stack up at the time, it was worth more as parts. I'd like another as I feel I have unfinished business but 6k gets you much more car elsewhere.

I understand I have an accord Type r sat on the drive needing some tlc and it isn't viable to make money on. I want to sort it though and to be fair that's when I call on a breaker. What would you prefer to buy for 6K over an Ek9 though, that is the question that I am curious about? As regards crashing one, I had a DC2 wiped out on the front end stood at a junction once and it was a very comfortable place to be. I didn't feel a thing!

[nottyash]

I imported my own in 2008.
I had always wanted a black one, and I bought it grade 3.5 from Japan.
I had any marks done, and the wheels powder coated white so it looked original.
For me though it was dissapointing. It wasnt massivly fast. You had to thrash it to death to get anywhere, and as my journey to work was Yorkshire to Hampshire it was noisy to sit on the motorway.
Loved it on the back roads, but ended up selling it after a few months, which was one of the stu p idest things I ever did.

Edited by nottyash on Thursday 20th October 17:28

[SidewaysSi]

What do people think of the DC5 vs DC2? I loved my DC2 but would a modified DC5 be as good, if not better? I used to see a few tricked up DC5s at TGM when getting my old car serviced and they always looked good.

[Alpinestars]

SidewaysSi said:

What do people think of the DC5 vs DC2? I loved my DC2 but would a modified DC5 be as good, if not better? I used to see a few tricked up DC5s at TGM when getting my old car serviced and they always looked good.

Not as good. Not as "organic" or as engaging to drive. Felt much more modern and less raw to me.

Gratuitous picture of another very rare, and brilliant Type R.

[Loyly]

I always thought these were a really smart looking car, irrespective of the fact that they're an absolutely brilliant drive. It smacks of typical Honda engineering. Absolute attention to detail in every single department.

[Leejay-B]

Cracking cars.

While the later versions are not as popular, just wait a few years when it will be even harder to find high revving naturally aspirated motors.

I think the EP3 and FN2 will be appreciated more then.

[havoc]

SidewaysSi said:

What do people think of the DC5 vs DC2? I loved my DC2 but would a modified DC5 be as good, if not better? I used to see a few tricked up DC5s at TGM when getting my old car serviced and they always looked good.

Drove a standard one - artificially-weighted steering without as much feedback, tramlined a lot more over bumpy surfaces, and rode substantially more stiffly (albeit probably about average for a modern hot hatch). Otherwise it was a next-gen DC2 - same seats, same ergonomic driving position, same excellent feel from gearchange and brakes, same silly redline!

Sort the steering and the suspension out and it'd be a hoot - engine is different but almost as characterful and more effective than the B18, diff is at least as aggressive, chassis is probably actually still more than a little adjustable underneath all the stiffness and extra grip, and it looks better inside and out.

[leonintegra36]

SidewaysSi said:

What do people think of the DC5 vs DC2? I loved my DC2 but would a modified DC5 be as good, if not better? I used to see a few tricked up DC5s at TGM when getting my old car serviced and they always looked good.

There isn't as much head room for a helmet in a dc5 compared to a DC2. Says alot about the track inspired nature of a DC2. The clever trick is that a DC2 still keeps greater composure on UK roads next to an Ek9/dc5.

[chrismc1977]

The EK9 & DC2 are two peas in a pod & are the best representation of Hondas Type R ethos that existed in the mid 90's.

Lightweight, revvy B-series motors, fantastic handling & a true driving 'experience'.

All of the subsequent mainstream N/A models (DC5, EP3, Accord-R, FN2 etc) whilst very competent, fail to quite nail it in the way the EK9 & DC2 achieved from the factory.

Recently bought my 2nd DC2 & I honestly think it's sublime. A true modern classic. So full of character & still punches well above its weight! Fantastic in all respects...

[is1]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

This quote is absolutely spot on (whether referencing a DC2 or EK9).
I have a DC2 and it is quite extraordinary as a drivers car. Per the above post, it is the fact that Honda (surely knowingly given the car's character) created a car that would exclude the masses who wouldn't get it. It was Honda saying this is not a car for everyone, it's for the drivers, those that will appreciate effort and involvement = reward.
I believe they could only make 25 a day because the engine was hand finished. Other details are delightful:
- the engine - 8,500 rpm yet if maintained, indestructible.
- double wishbone suspension front and rear;
- LSD and narrow (195!) tyres part of the formula;
- the titanium gearknob that feels so right;
- Recaro Speed seats (shared with a Lancia Integrale and E30 M3) that are perfect fast road seats;
- MOMO wheel (shared with a Ferrari 550/575);
- Enkei forged wheels that weight just over 5KG but fit ("just") over the front brakes (which are the same size as those on the NSX - happy to be corrected);
- extra body welding, bracing upper and lower, front and rear;
- the best seating position of any car I have ever driven - you are a cog in the machine(!)

All this in a coupe (quite long) weighing a shade over a tonne.
Prior to the DC2, I had a Clio 182 Trophy (often lauded as the greatest hot hatch) but from my experience, they are a class apart in my view. The Clio was a gutsy hatchback that felt light on its feet, the DC2 feels like an exotic.

For some reason, the press never took to the EK9 anything like they did the DC2.
If I recall, a period Performance Car greatest hot hatch piece had a 205 and a Clio Williams ahead of it and the write up on the EK9 suggested something was missing (and this was a common theme).

Yet the seemingly similar DC2 has received praise along the lines of "forget front wheel drive, the Integra is one of the greatest drivers cars ever made", "the equal of any Porsche RS" etc.
The late Russell Bulgin once described it as possibly the greatest car to come out of Japan.

[havoc]

Only one thing to add on the tech/mfg specs - the hand-finished bit relates to the intake / exhaust ports, which were hand polished to start with as Honda didn't have a machine capable of doing them well enough. Hand-polished ports on a mass-production car!

From (IIRC) 1999, they introduced a machine to polish them...


...and yes, I'd agree 100% with the comments above about DC2 composure - it's got that very rare combination of flattering the driver while still being innately responsive, adjustable and involving.

[dannyDC2]

is1 said:

For some reason, the press never took to the EK9 anything like they did the DC2.
If I recall, a period Performance Car greatest hot hatch piece had a 205 and a Clio Williams ahead of it and the write up on the EK9 suggested something was missing (and this was a common theme).

It's because the EK9 was never sold over here. The EK4 was, and that's still a cracking motor. I don't know how the press reacted to the EK4 VTI but I'd hope it was pretty positive?

I've been reading this thread with great interest but are yet to find someone to disagree with yet. Hello Honda friends!!

[Yazza54]

havoc said:

Only one thing to add on the tech/mfg specs - the hand-finished bit relates to the intake / exhaust ports, which were hand polished to start with as Honda didn't have a machine capable of doing them well enough. Hand-polished ports on a mass-production car!

From (IIRC) 1999, they introduced a machine to polish them...


...and yes, I'd agree 100% with the comments above about DC2 composure - it's got that very rare combination of flattering the driver while still being innately responsive, adjustable and involving.

Whilst this is true, it's a very minimal bit of work. There's a bit of a ridge behind the valve seat that was smoothed out and that's about it. Worth doing but it certainly sounds a lot better than it is. By no means a full port job.

Edited by Yazza54 on Friday 21st October 13:08

[adam.]

leonintegra36 said:

There isn't as much head room for a helmet in a dc5 compared to a DC2. Says alot about the track inspired nature of a DC2. The clever trick is that a DC2 still keeps greater composure on UK roads next to an Ek9/dc5.

Eh?


I'm 6'4 and fit just fine with a lid on!


I swapped the standard suspension on mine for a Bilstein B16/PSS kit, much more compliant with our shoddy roads.

[mp3manager]

leonintegra36 said:

There isn't as much head room for a helmet in a dc5 compared to a DC2. Says alot about the track inspired nature of a DC2. The clever trick is that a DC2 still keeps greater composure on UK roads next to an Ek9/dc5.

The DC5 is taller than a DC2 by 2.5inches, specifically to give more headroom when wearing a helmet. As for your last point, there's nothing clever about it, the EK9 & DC5 were never released over here, so don't have UK-tuned suspension.

Edited by mp3manager on Friday 21st October 14:12

[chrismc1977]

mp3manager said:

The DC5 is taller than a DC2 by 2.5inches, specifically to give more headroom when wearing a helmet. As for your last point, there's nothing clever about it, the EK9 & DC5 were never released over here, so don't have UK-tuned suspension.

Edited by mp3manager on Friday 21st October 14:12

Actually the suspension on the UK dc2's is no different to the JDM's which kinda nullifies that point.....

No such thing as 'uk tuned' spring/damper rates

[dannyDC2]

chrismc1977 said:

Actually the suspension on the UK dc2's is no different to the JDM's which kinda nullifies that point.....

No such thing as 'uk tuned' spring/damper rates

UKDM and 96 spec are the same... JDM 98 spec is different isn't it?

[adam.]

dannyDC2 said:

UKDM and 96 spec are the same... JDM 98 spec is different isn't it?

I always thought 98 JDM and UKDM were the same tbh.

[Squirrelofwoe]

adam. said:

dannyDC2 said:

UKDM and 96 spec are the same... JDM 98 spec is different isn't it?

I always thought 98 JDM and UKDM were the same tbh.

Me too, I always thought it was the same suspension setup throughout. I'm certainly no Type R beard though, I was always too busy driving them to worry too much about why they drove as well as they did