Anyone into cars but not credit?

[Granfondo]

daemon said:

Granfondo said:

We have had almost a decade of very low interest rates that could have been used to bring down personal debt and increase savings but the exact opposite has happened!
But hey ho people will have nice memories of the new cars they rented when in retirement!

Firstly, incredibly low interest rates means incredibly crap savings rates so it's hardly a surprise that people aren't putting as much as they should into savings accounts

Secondly, surely you are working on the assumption that cars bought with cash don't depreciate or wear out? I will only be left with nice memories of my porsche when I retire because it will be long gone, irrespective of the fact it wasn't financed or leased.

DA was talking about saving for retirement, and I don't think 20%/40% is a poor return saving in a pension do you?
Ii think you are making the assumptions I am only stating facts about the debt/savings ratio!
How's the A45 going?

[daemon]

Granfondo said:

daemon said:

Granfondo said:

We have had almost a decade of very low interest rates that could have been used to bring down personal debt and increase savings but the exact opposite has happened!
But hey ho people will have nice memories of the new cars they rented when in retirement!

Firstly, incredibly low interest rates means incredibly crap savings rates so it's hardly a surprise that people aren't putting as much as they should into savings accounts

Secondly, surely you are working on the assumption that cars bought with cash don't depreciate or wear out? I will only be left with nice memories of my porsche when I retire because it will be long gone, irrespective of the fact it wasn't financed or leased.

DA was talking about saving for retirement, and I don't think 20%/40% is a poor return saving in a pension do you?
Ii think you are making the assumptions I am only stating facts about the debt/savings ratio!
How's the A45 going?

You said saving,not saving for retirement.

Very different as saving for retirement is usually done through a pension plan.

My second point was relative to your "rented" comment. 99.9% of the cars we are all driving right now will just be a nice memory when we all retire irrespective of how they were bought.

It arrived with the dealer yesterday and we're taking delivery some time this week.

Edited by daemon on Sunday 23 October 11:50

[DonkeyApple]

daemon said:

J4CKO said:

Agreed, its very like alcohol, great if used wisely, just dont become dependant/addicted on it.

Exactly.

However we don't need the effects of alcohol addiction trotted out on a thread about fine wines so why is the effects of excess debt on the global economy relevant on a motoring forum?

What is it that you trott out on every single thread on this subject without exception?

We've already established that you don't fully understand leveraged transactions or the concept of affordability but used to peddle debt for a living and seem quite convinced that if the client has some cash left in their account at the end of the month then it's free money to go spending with.

Apologies if I do pop up on some of these threads banging the same drum but it does tend to be in response to the repeated garbage touted by a gang that you seem to be a core member of that tries to polarise any sensible discussion (like the one we've been enjoying here) so that it just collapses the same way as they all have done in the past.

What we will see now that you have arrived is an end to the intelligent debate and a debasing into the usual 'if you can afford it' , 'yolo' drivelnof the consumer drone.

So sadly, I think this thread is done but it was unusually interesting and beneficial for far longer than usual.

[daemon]

SWoll said:

In this case with the title of the thread being 'Anyone into cars but not credit' I can see why. Whilst I agree with very few of DA's points (and non of Audemars) I can understand why these things have been brought up TBH. All adds to the discussion, which is what most of us are here for I thought?

The problem is that the same 2 or 3 posters seem to jump onto every thread regarding leasing or finance with the same posts, whether it's relevant to the OP's question or not.

Though if we're to expand every forum thread on to the social and economic impact on western society and the impact on our children it would drag them down a very dull outcome wouldn't it?

But it seems fine to do so on a finance related thread.

[daemon]

NickCQ said:

daemon said:

Firstly, incredibly low interest rates means incredibly crap savings rates so it's hardly a surprise that people aren't putting as much as they should into savings accounts

I can't understand this point of view. Low rates mean you should save MORE, rather than less, given the same target standard of living. As usual, it'll be people who do the 'right' thing and accumulate a little bit of wealth during their lifetime to account for this who get punitively taxed to bail everyone else out.

Why? Surely it hardly encourages people to put their money into the "safe hands" of our banking industry to get a 1% return?

People need to be encouraged to put more into penoon planning, yes absolutely, however savings rates don't do that.

[Granfondo]

daemon said:

You said saving,not saving for retirement.

Very different as saving for retirement is usually done through a pension plan.

My second point was relative to your "rented" comment. 99.9% of the cars we are all driving right now will just be a nice memory when we all retire irrespective of how they were bought.

It arrived with the dealer yesterday and we're taking delivery some time this week.

Edited by daemon on Sunday 23 October 11:50

Surely even you can see that the borrowing must have the shinnneeee stuff culture is having a direct effect on the fact people are NOT saving for the future ?

[daemon]

DonkeyApple said:

We've already established that you don't fully understand leveraged transactions or the concept of affordability but used to peddle debt for a living and seem quite convinced that if the client has some cash left in their account at the end of the month then it's free money to go spending with.

How little you know about me. When I was motor trading I never sold cars on finance for example.

I don't claim to "understand" leveraged transactions as I don't need to frankly. That's not my job to.

If people want to spend £x per month on x, y or z then it's not up to me or you to pass judgement or take some moral high ground.

DonkeyApple said:

Apologies if I do pop up on some of these threads banging the same drum but it does tend to be in response to the repeated garbage touted by a gang that you seem to be a core member of that tries to polarise any sensible discussion (like the one we've been enjoying here) so that it just collapses the same way as they all have done in the past.

It collapse because one or two people - yourself included - pass moral judgement on other people based on their own black and white subjective view of what is correct.

There are those who respond to that, which clearly causes you problems and encourages you to bang your drum even more.

DonkeyApple said:

What we will see now that you have arrived is an end to the intelligent debate and a debasing into the usual 'if you can afford it' , 'yolo' drivelnof the consumer drone.

Which would hold water IF you hadn't already agreed that "some" finance isn't necessarily a bad thing - which is what I am saying.

I've used finance in the past,might do so again in the future. I've never leased, but might one day.

We plan for our retirement and I would encourage others to do the same.

Sadly my freedom of choice seems to cause people like you offence as it doesn't "fit" with your moralistic subjective views

[daemon]

Granfondo said:

Surely even you can see that the borrowing must have the shinnneeee stuff culture is having a direct effect on the fact people are NOT saving for the future ?

Of course.

And I have never said otherwise.

What I push back on is "borrowing encourages a must-have-right-now-at-any-cost debt culture therefore everyone who borrows must be living like that".

Not so.

Surely even you can see that?

Even powerfully built ph company directors like you have accessed / considered pcp, lease and used loans in the past, have they not?

[Granfondo]

daemon said:

Granfondo said:

Surely even you can see that the borrowing must have the shinnneeee stuff culture is having a direct effect on the fact people are NOT saving for the future ?

Of course.

And I have never said otherwise.

What I push back on is "borrowing encourages a must-have-right-now-at-any-cost debt culture therefore everyone who borrows must be living like that".

Not so.

Surely even you can see that?

Even powerfully built ph company directors like you have accessed / considered pcp, lease and used loans in the past, have they not?

The facts say otherwise!
I have no idea how People employed by Ltd Co's fund their lifestyles!

[anonymous-user]

Granfondo said:

How's the A45 going?

You're a snide little so and so aren't you ?

It's this kind of childish baiting that spoils decent debate.

[daemon]

Granfondo said:

I have no idea how People employed by Ltd Co's fund their lifestyles!

The role of company director does not make them an employee.

Surely even you know that?

[Granfondo]

RSK21 said:

Granfondo said:

How's the A45 going?

You're a snide little so and so aren't you ?

It's this kind of childish baiting that spoils decent debate.

is that an attempt at humour or sarcasm ?

[Granfondo]

daemon said:

Granfondo said:

I have no idea how People employed by Ltd Co's fund their lifestyles!

The role of company director does not make them an employee.

Surely even you know that?

What does it make them?

[anonymous-user]

Granfondo said:

is that an attempt at humour or sarcasm ?

It's neither.

It's just a reflection of your classic passive aggressive internet forum anonymity lets me behave like a smart arse posting persona.

Why did you bring up his recently acquired car if not to try and make a smart quip ?

[daemon]

RSK21 said:

Granfondo said:

How's the A45 going?

You're a snide little so and so aren't you ?

It's this kind of childish baiting that spoils decent debate.

That, sadly, is gran fondos modus operandi

You will also note he has removed all references to his own cars, car history, job role, location, etc from his profile and has even removed his own posts in the past but quite happily trawls forum threads for information that he can try and use against people

[Granfondo]

RSK21 said:

It's neither.

It's just a reflection of your classic passive aggressive internet forum anonymity lets me behave like a smart arse persona.

I don't see how asking someone about their new car is anyway passive aggressive but you do seem to read into things differently than normal people!

P.S. I quite like the GLA 45amg so was interested in how he found his new car but the insults start so before it ruins the thread and people go off running to the mods I will try not to reply to you or D.

Edited by Granfondo on Sunday 23 October 12:48

[daemon]

Granfondo said:

daemon said:

Granfondo said:

I have no idea how People employed by Ltd Co's fund their lifestyles!

The role of company director does not make them an employee.

Surely even you know that?

What does it make them?

Look it up if you don't understand the difference between a director of a limited company and an employee of a limited company.

[daemon]

Granfondo said:

RSK21 said:

It's neither.

It's just a reflection of your classic passive aggressive internet forum anonymity lets me behave like a smart arse persona.

I don't see how asking someone about their new car is anyway passive aggressive but you do seem to read into things differently than normal people!

And when you're googling company director, Google "passive aggressive"

[anonymous-user]

Granfondo said:

I don't see how asking someone about their new car is anyway passive aggressive but you do seem to read into things differently than normal people!

Don't dig any further mate, you've been tumbled trying to be a smart arse and now you're trying to back out of it by taking cheap shots.

If you read things through you'll see that whilst DA and I might have differing views we manage to remain civil and on topic.

If you really wnat to continue maiking yourself look daft then why did you ask about Daemon's new car on this thread ?

Equally why didn't you decide to explain what you meant earlier on when challenged about a cryptic statement you made about debt peddlers ?

[daemon]

Granfondo said:

The facts say otherwise!

Just to clarify - you're saying then that everyone who borrows does so because theyre trapped in a must buy now debt fuelled lifestyle?