A Good Barge / B Road Blaster Balance?
Discussion
andy-xr said:
Gor, right manufacturer, wrong model
An X Type has AWD, will be very good in the snow with winters on. The 2.1 V6 isnt great if I'm honest, but would be the closest to hitting the MPG you're after. The 2.5 is about as thirsty as the 3.0 but the 3.0 has more power and torque. But you're looking at early 20s to the gallon
Yep, according to the road test the 2.1 V6 X-type will hit your mpg targets ( 36mpg in this test ) and will have good all weather ability but not particularly quick if you found the IS200 a bit slowAn X Type has AWD, will be very good in the snow with winters on. The 2.1 V6 isnt great if I'm honest, but would be the closest to hitting the MPG you're after. The 2.5 is about as thirsty as the 3.0 but the 3.0 has more power and torque. But you're looking at early 20s to the gallon
The Alfa 156 V6 I think will struggle a bit on the mpg front but they sound lovely when stretched and fall within budget
Don't discount the BMWs in snow though - a set of winters and you'll be fine.
I've got around in deepish snow that defeated lots of fwd cars on summer tyres
I recommend Conti Winter Contacts and Nokians from personal experience of Welsh snow
I'd forgotten that VW (I seem like I'm on a bit of a theme here!) did a Passat 4Motion with the 2.8 VR6 engine. While it might not be the last word in dynamic handling, I think this or this could potentially tick a few boxes.
The back seats are plenty spacious enough for adults on a long run, and performance should be on-par with an E46 325.
The back seats are plenty spacious enough for adults on a long run, and performance should be on-par with an E46 325.
s m said:
WaldoMcBaldo said:
I seem to keep arriving at Lexus IS200s as I really want a petrol 6 (never had a car with more than a 4 pot) but the fuel economy seems absymal really. I'd like at least 30mpg from gentle driving.
Am I asking too much for my budget?
For a little real world reassurance, here's a snap I took for my friend who thought 30+ mpg wasn't possible in 6-cylinder at a reasonable averageAm I asking too much for my budget?
Warm temps, car loaded up with 4 , aircon on, 60mph average, E46 325 with 190bhp
Computer is a little optimistic but genuine 35 on hilly terrain
If you back off a little more that'll head towards 40
Kawasicki said:
s m said:
WaldoMcBaldo said:
I seem to keep arriving at Lexus IS200s as I really want a petrol 6 (never had a car with more than a 4 pot) but the fuel economy seems absymal really. I'd like at least 30mpg from gentle driving.
Am I asking too much for my budget?
For a little real world reassurance, here's a snap I took for my friend who thought 30+ mpg wasn't possible in 6-cylinder at a reasonable averageAm I asking too much for my budget?
Warm temps, car loaded up with 4 , aircon on, 60mph average, E46 325 with 190bhp
Computer is a little optimistic but genuine 35 on hilly terrain
If you back off a little more that'll head towards 40
- still going well I guess?Don't get me wrong, I can get the numbers to fall dramatically on a favourite bit of road
It was just in response to show the OP what might be possible with gentler driving but still at a decent average of 60mph
s m said:
Good effort - still going well I guess?
Don't get me wrong, I can get the numbers to fall dramatically on a favourite bit of road
It was just in response to show the OP what might be possible with gentler driving but still at a decent average of 60mph
Yep. Bounced off the rev limiter constantly for 8 miles this morning. Very smooth. I'm shocked that the fuel economy is so good. - still going well I guess?Don't get me wrong, I can get the numbers to fall dramatically on a favourite bit of road
It was just in response to show the OP what might be possible with gentler driving but still at a decent average of 60mph
I also think 60mph average is faster than what is possible in the UK, at least with a normal, somewhat law abiding driver, in the daytime.
s m said:
Kawasicki said:
s m said:
WaldoMcBaldo said:
I seem to keep arriving at Lexus IS200s as I really want a petrol 6 (never had a car with more than a 4 pot) but the fuel economy seems absymal really. I'd like at least 30mpg from gentle driving.
Am I asking too much for my budget?
For a little real world reassurance, here's a snap I took for my friend who thought 30+ mpg wasn't possible in 6-cylinder at a reasonable averageAm I asking too much for my budget?
Warm temps, car loaded up with 4 , aircon on, 60mph average, E46 325 with 190bhp
Computer is a little optimistic but genuine 35 on hilly terrain
If you back off a little more that'll head towards 40
- still going well I guess?Don't get me wrong, I can get the numbers to fall dramatically on a favourite bit of road
It was just in response to show the OP what might be possible with gentler driving but still at a decent average of 60mph
Loyly said:
The IS200 is a really nice balanced car with a good engine. Unfortunately, it's about 30bhp short of where it should be an fuel economy is never amazing. I usually love Lexus cars but I don't think the IS200 is one of their best. For cheap fun though, accepting the failings of the car, it could be a winner. Try finding one that isn't a tatty banger now though.
Agreed. The Lexus IS was an XE10 series Toyota Altezza in Japan, so I think was more Toyota than Lexus. I know don't even deem it a 'proper' Lexus.
C70R said:
£1,500? 30mpg? More than 4cyls? Space for passengers? Good on long runs? Good on B-roads? Good in the snow?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you're asking far too much for your budget.
You're probably going to need to compromise in one or more of those areas - so prepare yourself for that. Also, consider cars which aren't great cosmetically, or aren't in desirable colours/specs. In effect, your budget and requirements is only going to be satisfied with a entry-level exec saloon, so that narrows things down a bit.
My best suggestions:
Your budget should get you a decent Golf, and the cross-country performance would be in a different league to any of the above. The interior is a lovely place to be on a run and the boot is a decent size, but I (6ft+) wouldn't want to be a back-seat passenger for more than a couple of hours (having said that, the same is true for the E46, 156 and A4).
If the Golf idea doesn't work for you, then my money would be going on the Audi or Skoda.
As I've said above the SEAT Toledo seems to fit the bill nicely. Ok it's not got the badge and the kudos but think about it;I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you're asking far too much for your budget.
You're probably going to need to compromise in one or more of those areas - so prepare yourself for that. Also, consider cars which aren't great cosmetically, or aren't in desirable colours/specs. In effect, your budget and requirements is only going to be satisfied with a entry-level exec saloon, so that narrows things down a bit.
My best suggestions:
- E46 325 Sport 4dr. A coupe is out of budget, but a saloon in silver with basic spec might just slip under if you're lucky. Don't bother with SE spec, as the suspension/seats are pants when driving quickly.
- Mondeo ST220. You're pushing it with budget in a big way, but you might get a leggy one if you keep your eyes open.
- Alfa 156 2.5 V6. You'll need to buy carefully, and accept that you aren't getting pick of the bunch.
- Audi A4/B5 2.8 Quattro. Budget buys you plenty. Not a brilliant steer, but 4WD will make the most of an average chassis.
- Skoda Octavia 1.8T. Cheap to improve performance, and plentiful in budget. 4x4 and VRS may also be options.
Your budget should get you a decent Golf, and the cross-country performance would be in a different league to any of the above. The interior is a lovely place to be on a run and the boot is a decent size, but I (6ft+) wouldn't want to be a back-seat passenger for more than a couple of hours (having said that, the same is true for the E46, 156 and A4).
If the Golf idea doesn't work for you, then my money would be going on the Audi or Skoda.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 26th October 10:39
4dr barge - check
B-road handling - check, quite nimble
More than 4 cyl - check
Interesting engine - check
30mpg - check
Nice interior - check, leather and suede seats, Audi A3 dashboard.
Enough space in back
And big boot - check
Plenty fast enough - check
Comes in budget - checkmate - hell you can get them from £700!
Ok not everyone's idea of a barge but from the above it fits in pretty well. It also has a good reputation for reliability the Toledo in particular. And no I'm not selling one, just think it's an underrated budget car.
Kierkegaard said:
C70R said:
£1,500? 30mpg? More than 4cyls? Space for passengers? Good on long runs? Good on B-roads? Good in the snow?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you're asking far too much for your budget.
You're probably going to need to compromise in one or more of those areas - so prepare yourself for that. Also, consider cars which aren't great cosmetically, or aren't in desirable colours/specs. In effect, your budget and requirements is only going to be satisfied with a entry-level exec saloon, so that narrows things down a bit.
My best suggestions:
Your budget should get you a decent Golf, and the cross-country performance would be in a different league to any of the above. The interior is a lovely place to be on a run and the boot is a decent size, but I (6ft+) wouldn't want to be a back-seat passenger for more than a couple of hours (having said that, the same is true for the E46, 156 and A4).
If the Golf idea doesn't work for you, then my money would be going on the Audi or Skoda.
As I've said above the SEAT Toledo seems to fit the bill nicely. Ok it's not got the badge and the kudos but think about it;I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you're asking far too much for your budget.
You're probably going to need to compromise in one or more of those areas - so prepare yourself for that. Also, consider cars which aren't great cosmetically, or aren't in desirable colours/specs. In effect, your budget and requirements is only going to be satisfied with a entry-level exec saloon, so that narrows things down a bit.
My best suggestions:
- E46 325 Sport 4dr. A coupe is out of budget, but a saloon in silver with basic spec might just slip under if you're lucky. Don't bother with SE spec, as the suspension/seats are pants when driving quickly.
- Mondeo ST220. You're pushing it with budget in a big way, but you might get a leggy one if you keep your eyes open.
- Alfa 156 2.5 V6. You'll need to buy carefully, and accept that you aren't getting pick of the bunch.
- Audi A4/B5 2.8 Quattro. Budget buys you plenty. Not a brilliant steer, but 4WD will make the most of an average chassis.
- Skoda Octavia 1.8T. Cheap to improve performance, and plentiful in budget. 4x4 and VRS may also be options.
Your budget should get you a decent Golf, and the cross-country performance would be in a different league to any of the above. The interior is a lovely place to be on a run and the boot is a decent size, but I (6ft+) wouldn't want to be a back-seat passenger for more than a couple of hours (having said that, the same is true for the E46, 156 and A4).
If the Golf idea doesn't work for you, then my money would be going on the Audi or Skoda.
Edited by C70R on Wednesday 26th October 10:39
4dr barge - check
B-road handling - check, quite nimble
More than 4 cyl - check
Interesting engine - check
30mpg - check
Nice interior - check, leather and suede seats, Audi A3 dashboard.
Enough space in back
And big boot - check
Plenty fast enough - check
Comes in budget - checkmate - hell you can get them from £700!
Ok not everyone's idea of a barge but from the above it fits in pretty well. It also has a good reputation for reliability the Toledo in particular. And no I'm not selling one, just think it's an underrated budget car.
JakeT said:
To add to this more, I have had a fill verified 42MPG from mine on a 240 mile run on a set of 16" energy saver tyres. This was sitting at 65-70MPH. Were it my money I'd be going 325i, BMW straight sixes are what they do best.
Good result - managed a good average of just under 70 and still did around 35mpg to catch the Tunnel crossing. Trouble is the crowded M25 dings the fuel usage 
I think the exhaust note knocks a couple of mpg off mine
I'd agree though - the sixes in the E36/46 offer a good performance/mpg balance
Here's the old E36 328 - a cruising best of nearly 35mpg but still a decent turn of speed
Edited by s m on Thursday 27th October 00:15
Holy crap, this far in and nobody has insisted that you buy a 9-5 Aero? Are they not in favour any more?
Before anyone does: Don't get a 9-5 Aero - yet, they're nippy, but the chassis is rubbish. B road fun they are not.
E46 330i M Sport is a good balance of all, if you can a) find a good one, and b) put up with the appallingly badly damped suspension.
Before anyone does: Don't get a 9-5 Aero - yet, they're nippy, but the chassis is rubbish. B road fun they are not.
E46 330i M Sport is a good balance of all, if you can a) find a good one, and b) put up with the appallingly badly damped suspension.
FD3Si said:
Holy crap, this far in and nobody has insisted that you buy a 9-5 Aero? Are they not in favour any more?
Before anyone does: Don't get a 9-5 Aero - yet, they're nippy, but the chassis is rubbish. B road fun they are not.
E46 330i M Sport is a good balance of all, if you can a) find a good one, and b) put up with the appallingly badly damped suspension.
Even though I don't think it's likely that the OP will find a 330 Sport in his budget, I feel like I should stick up for the suspension (on the basis that a 325 Sport might squeak into budget). I've done ~10,000 miles in two different 330 Sports - most of those miles were in/around Central London, with a few excursions to the deep/dark countrysides of Southern France and West Wales. I came to the 330 Sport from a 2000 Volvo C70, so I get the idea of 'cossetting' rides.Before anyone does: Don't get a 9-5 Aero - yet, they're nippy, but the chassis is rubbish. B road fun they are not.
E46 330i M Sport is a good balance of all, if you can a) find a good one, and b) put up with the appallingly badly damped suspension.
While the Sport suspension is undoubtedly stiffer than the SE spec, "appallingly badly damped" is so far from the mark it's untrue. Yes, if you want a comfortable car then you would choose the SE - but you'd also get something with park-bench seats and wobbly suspension. The Sport suspension isn't jarring or crashy like Vauxhall VXR or Audi S-Line models, and isn't so stiff that you actively avoid potholes and drain covers. I actually think it's a great balance of usability and fun - it certainly rides better than a friend's E46 M3 on 19s.
I've been looking at motors recently that fall into this kind of bracket and I've thought the Audi TT 1.8T 225 Quattro is looking like a bit of a bargain these days. Surely has real potential as a future classic once the numbers thin out and the bad examples die off...
Admittedly the styling/image isn't everyones cup of tea, personally I think it's an attractive, clean looking coupe shape. Can be had for £1.5 or less, 225 horse, awd, and should be able to scrap 30mpg if you go easy?
Admittedly the styling/image isn't everyones cup of tea, personally I think it's an attractive, clean looking coupe shape. Can be had for £1.5 or less, 225 horse, awd, and should be able to scrap 30mpg if you go easy?
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