RE: Lotus Evora Sport 410: Review
Discussion
Guvernator said:
Fair enough, I think it's at least £10k overpriced for what Lotus current brand image, PR presence and dealership network can support but that's just my opinion. 
It depends a lot on how much store you put on brand. Bahar was a firm believer, and if the reviews are to be believed, Porsche are banking on it with the current models. If you look at Aston Martin, you could argue it shows you can overcome a lot with a brand image and PR presence Getting into Veblen goods territory there.Has there ever been a thread where someone doesn't say that 'car X is overpriced by..'? When the first Evora came out at 45K, the threads all started with "It should be 10K less..".
It doesn't help that Porsche muddy the waters with their options list of doom trick. A well specc'd porker is 10-20K more than the headline 'base' price. Should Lotus be playing that trick rather than having a very limited set of flavours?
(BTW - none of this is being touchy, just interested in different viewpoints. I know that I'm a very atypical customer when it comes to most goods. Function over all else for me.)
Guvernator said:
Fair enough, I think it's at least £10k overpriced for what Lotus current brand image, PR presence and dealership network can support but that's just my opinion.
Even if it is accepted that you're right - I think it is a reasonable strategy and preferable to the alternative.At the moment they are building their brand by delivering low volumes of increasingly well received cars with a better understanding of what the market values and progressively working their way up the pricing scale to a point where they can afford to expand.
The alternative - without a huge injection of cash - is keep the prices down while investing in marketing and a dealership network which will better facilitate a large scale roll out of more expensive models. The problem with is that when you do finally launch that model, stick it into all your dealers and plaster it all over the press - no one buys it because Lotus is perceived as pitching above it's station, it's too expensive and doesn't deliver on enough fronts.
Yes I'd start using the Porsche options list trick as a poster above suggested, in fact Porsche where in a similar position to Lotus a few decades ago, almost going out of business and now they the most successful car manufacturers in the world so it might be an idea to start copying their strategy while still trying to retain the bits that make Lotus unique.
No point in re-inventing the wheel so if that means big options lists, investing more in PR (Bahar at least got this bit right) or shock horror building an SUV so be it. That might make the traditional beardy Lotus fans cry but so long as it means it keeps the cash-flow going so that they can keep building brilliant paired down sportscars then I'm all for it.
No point in re-inventing the wheel so if that means big options lists, investing more in PR (Bahar at least got this bit right) or shock horror building an SUV so be it. That might make the traditional beardy Lotus fans cry but so long as it means it keeps the cash-flow going so that they can keep building brilliant paired down sportscars then I'm all for it.
gregs656 said:
Guvernator said:
Fair enough, I think it's at least £10k overpriced for what Lotus current brand image, PR presence and dealership network can support but that's just my opinion.
Even if it is accepted that you're right - I think it is a reasonable strategy and preferable to the alternative.At the moment they are building their brand by delivering low volumes of increasingly well received cars with a better understanding of what the market values and progressively working their way up the pricing scale to a point where they can afford to expand.
The alternative - without a huge injection of cash - is keep the prices down while investing in marketing and a dealership network which will better facilitate a large scale roll out of more expensive models. The problem with is that when you do finally launch that model, stick it into all your dealers and plaster it all over the press - no one buys it because Lotus is perceived as pitching above it's station, it's too expensive and doesn't deliver on enough fronts.
Alfa 4C From £51,500
F Type From £50,000 with the R starting at £86,000
Audi R8 From £117,000
BMW M4 From £56,650
Porsche 911 Turbo From £145,000
Now consider that is base starting prices - a top of the range, rare sports car with supercar looks and minimal option list to be added for £80k looks stonking good value.
As others have said, its the marketing that lets them down.
LOL, everyone seems to think 911's have been without their faults?! what about the 911's that set on fire and had to be recalled?! i'll take a parking sensor that fails any day over that.
any way, another Porsche sheep or something rare that people are going to come up to you and chat about, who doesn't know what a 911 is like these days... yes ticks all boxes fast reliable blah blah,
any way, LOTUS keep doing more of this, definitely a step forward rather than backwards, which is all we can ask.
any way, another Porsche sheep or something rare that people are going to come up to you and chat about, who doesn't know what a 911 is like these days... yes ticks all boxes fast reliable blah blah,
any way, LOTUS keep doing more of this, definitely a step forward rather than backwards, which is all we can ask.
shibby! said:
RacerMike said:
The reason is that Porsche offer incredibly competitive finance, great customer service, a premium brand name that people want, perceived reliability, strong residuals and a great image. Oh, and they're also pretty quick and handle quite well. Basically, people buying in this market care very much for the former, and very little for the latter
Lotus are offering 50:50 0% finance deals and their APR rate are lower than Porsche . 3 year warranties, and i thought the residuals were pretty much the best of any car manufacturer (outside of the Porsche GT models).Edited by shibby! on Wednesday 2nd November 11:50
Edited by blueg33 on Wednesday 2nd November 13:01
Porsche\Ferrari Lamborghini actually charge a premium for making their cars lighter and more focused, Lotus seem to be going the other way, asking you to pay more for a car which is heavier and has more toys. Now I'm not sure which approach is right but the former seems to make more money. If Lotus where able to charge for making cars lighter and more focused I reckon they could clean up. 
LambShank said:
Exige and Elise Cup cars are more expensive than non Cup cars.
Possibly not as much more expensive as you'd pay to fit those damgers on the standard car, though? Is the cup actually lighter than the standard car anyway?
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 2nd November 13:34
Herbs said:
As others have said, its the marketing that lets them down.
It must be a frustrating thing to try and advertise a Lotus, because it seems to me that everyone in the car market says things about their cars which blatantly aren't true: "get's your pulse racing", "communicates directly to the driver", "great fun to drive", "sporty", "agile" etc - all these terms are used by marketing teams to describe everything from Vauxhall Corsas to Porsche Boxsters. In reality, although many of those cars are very good, those phrases aren't really true for most cars, they're just marketing speak. Lotus do actually provide those things, possibly uniquely in the sectors they're in, but how do you convince people that you're the one telling the truth when everyone else is massively exaggerating?kambites said:
LambShank said:
Exige and Elise Cup cars are more expensive than non Cup cars.
Possibly not as much more expensive as you'd pay to fit those damgers on the standard car, though? Is the cup actually lighter than the standard car anyway?
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 2nd November 13:34
Both 1125kg
GT4 wasn't much more expensive than a Cayman GTS, was it any lighter?
Edited by LambShank on Wednesday 2nd November 13:58
LambShank said:
GT4 wasn't much more expensive than a Cayman GTS
More expensive to who? The Porsche dealer's mates who were the only ones allowed to buy new, or the second buyers who got reamed when the cars were flipped after 100 miles?Edited by LambShank on Wednesday 2nd November 13:58
Edited by SrMoreno on Wednesday 2nd November 15:23
Mrcarsportscarcam said:
Having worked for a Lotus dealership in the past in after sales i can tell you the cars being produced are brilliantly put together and well thought but i always thought this was a very big leap for Lotus and is a hope for the best built car.
Disappointingly the same faults found on the Evora's cheaper sisters, the Exige S and Elise S share the same electrical counter parts which either fail under warranty or out of warranty and often! One story i remember hearing from their head field technician where a 2015 Exige S with parking sensors failed to leave the production line after having been replaced three times with a parking sensor control unit (made by cobra alarms) which for me brings some big questions on reliability for an £82K car. Its competitors priced about the same, arguably have a much better platform and reliability in terms of supplied electrical parts.
That being said Lotus are going in the right direction and give or take 10 years i i think we will see a successful reliable British own made sports car brand.
Thought Lotus was Malaysian? Owned by Proton Disappointingly the same faults found on the Evora's cheaper sisters, the Exige S and Elise S share the same electrical counter parts which either fail under warranty or out of warranty and often! One story i remember hearing from their head field technician where a 2015 Exige S with parking sensors failed to leave the production line after having been replaced three times with a parking sensor control unit (made by cobra alarms) which for me brings some big questions on reliability for an £82K car. Its competitors priced about the same, arguably have a much better platform and reliability in terms of supplied electrical parts.
That being said Lotus are going in the right direction and give or take 10 years i i think we will see a successful reliable British own made sports car brand.
Edited by Mrcarsportscarcam on Tuesday 1st November 14:59
cypriot said:
An interesting fact I read in one of the other reviews of the 410 is that one would have to get a Porsche Turbo to get a faster Porsche than the 410. this puts its value proposition into perspective i think.
With the introduction of the turbo Carrera models, I'd put my money on the Sport 410 being no faster than the base 911 (non-S) model. SidewaysSi said:
New non GT Porsches are pretty dull. Great for the man trading up from an Audi though.
Since you've decide to stir the "dull" pot, and given that Evora sales have been pitiful throughout the last 10 years, are we to believe the car is so "interesting" that nobody will buy it? Ozzie Osmond said:
SidewaysSi said:
New non GT Porsches are pretty dull. Great for the man trading up from an Audi though.
Since you've decide to stir the "dull" pot, and given that Evora sales have been pitiful throughout the last 10 years, are we to believe the car is so "interesting" that nobody will buy it? Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff