RE: Lotus Evora Sport 410: Review

[kambites]

Olivera said:

cypriot said:

An interesting fact I read in one of the other reviews of the 410 is that one would have to get a Porsche Turbo to get a faster Porsche than the 410. this puts its value proposition into perspective i think.

With the introduction of the turbo Carrera models, I'd put my money on the Sport 410 being no faster than the base 911 (non-S) model.

The Evora has a slightly higher power to weight ratio than the Carrera S so I'd be surprised if it wasn't faster than the non-S.

One could argue that any difference is going to be pretty irrelevant on the road anyway. There will be far more difference in the character of the way they drive than their outright performance.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 2nd November 19:18

[Tuna]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Since you've decide to stir the "dull" pot, and given that Evora sales have been pitiful throughout the last 10 years, are we to believe the car is so "interesting" that nobody will buy it?

Does that make a Toyota Yaris the most exciting car ever, as it massively outsells the 911?

[Cold]

Tuna said:

Ozzie Osmond said:

Since you've decide to stir the "dull" pot, and given that Evora sales have been pitiful throughout the last 10 years, are we to believe the car is so "interesting" that nobody will buy it?

Does that make a Toyota Yaris the most exciting car ever, as it massively outsells the 911?

It's certainly more reliable.

[Hungrymc]

I ran a 996 911 for 6 years and didn't have any major problems with it. The engine (for all the horror stories) really was a lovely thing. Nice delivery and lovely noises. The Evora S I have now really is massively more fun and exciting. The trim quality is OK, nice materials but not the best execution. And the engine is very effective but lacks a little charisma compared to the flat 6.

But my Evora is so much exciting than my 911 was, and newer 911s are no more fun than mine was (slick and beautifully engineered, very effective, but not more exciting).

That's what lots of people are missing, an Evora isn't meant to be a 911. Lotus are extremely smart in where they focus their efforts. The specific strengths of an Evora are so very different to a 911 or anything else I've tried. If you want a beautifully engineered, very fast sports car that has cool (in my opinion) image, that everyone will recognise, a 911 is a great place to be (I'm sure I'll have another in time). If you want something that really focuses on tactility and excitement, while being passable / good in areas like trim quality. And that is a mystery in terms of image to none petrol heads, an Evora is brilliant - and that's just an S, not a 400 or a 410.

Lotus can achieve some amazing things with very limited resources and I hope they continue to follow their own path without getting drawn in to trying to out 'Porsche' Porsche.

[Cold]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Mike Kimberley thought he was going to sell 2,000 Evoras a year
Dany Bahar thought he was going to launch five new cars in five years
Lotus sacked 25% of their workforce
CEO Gales has drawn attention to the company's loss of a staggering £168million (How much loss PER CAR?)

and a few blokes on the internet think it's clever to have a pop at Porsche. You couldn't make it up.

Meanwhile one hopes the small handful of Evora buyers are out there enjoying their cars and that this latest model will keep things ticking over pending some long-awaited new product.

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20160812/ANE/16...

Link said:

What does that mean in models sold?

Probably 2,200 to 2,300 in this financial year. But we believe we could do even more because we will have the full-year effect of the U.S., where we launched the Evora in May and we expect sales of 400 cars. We already have 250 orders.

Are you closer to profitability?

We will be profitable this financial year that started in April. We had a three-year plan from when I arrived in 2014. The first two years were basically building up, this year is the year of profitability.

[amgmcqueen]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Mike Kimberley thought he was going to sell 2,000 Evoras a year
Dany Bahar thought he was going to launch five new cars in five years
Lotus sacked 25% of their workforce
CEO Gales has drawn attention to the company's loss of a staggering £168million (How much loss PER CAR?)

and a few blokes on the internet think it's clever to have a pop at Porsche. You couldn't make it up.

Meanwhile one hopes the small handful of Evora buyers are out there enjoying their cars and that this latest model will keep things ticking over pending some long-awaited new product.

You seem to be utterly obsessed with Lotus? Really is quite strange!

[Ozzie Osmond]

My interest is great mid-engine sportscars. It's a huge disappointment to me that Lotus has promised so much and delivered so little. Just look at McLaren - from a standing start they now completely dominate the British mid-engined sportscar market which used to belong to Esprit.

[RobM77]

Ozzie Osmond said:

My interest is great mid-engine sportscars. It's a huge disappointment to me that Lotus has promised so much and delivered so little. Just look at McLaren - from a standing start they now completely dominate the British mid-engined sportscar market which used to belong to Esprit.

It's not exactly a standing start if you have the one commodity that feeds every discipline involved in designing and engineering a car: money. Not only was Mclaren's budget vastly higher to start with, but their cars sell for at least twice as much as even the most expensive Lotus.

Let's not also forget that the original MP4-12C wasn't exactly universally praised..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiqT3sohDZE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI1WYRiZwBg

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 2nd November 22:07

[anniesdad]

W124 said:

I delivered a GTR this morning. List price 83k. It was alllright. Fast and oddly comfortable now. But it's huge! Been a few months since I drove one and, incredible as they are, there is very little to be got from a car like that in the South East of the UK. Much too big and WAY too fast. Ditto the 911 Turbo and especially the F-Type R. I brought back an RS6 the other day and realised afterward that I'd had a much more enjoyable drive in the utterly basic Seat Mii I drove down in. Too big, way too fast and much too flatulent in sound. Stupid things. Farting and bludgeoning down the road with all the grace of a drunken John Prescott. That is why Lotus are surviving. Joy can be had at same speeds. The suspension and steering actually working together, the sensation of brakes holding back little mass. No wasted energy. Joy. You can go at a rapid clip if you want, but you don't HAVE too.

Amen. Spot on.

[blueg33]

I wonder

Take an Evora 410, replace Lotus badges with Mclaren, place in Mclaren showroom. Price £100k. I bet people would praise it and buy it as the "baby" Mclaren. Bet it would also work if it was painted red and put in a Ferrari dealer in, say, Wilmslow.

[Tuna]

Ozzie Osmond said:

My interest is great mid-engine sportscars. It's a huge disappointment to me that Lotus has promised so much and delivered so little. Just look at McLaren - from a standing start they now completely dominate the British mid-engined sportscar market which used to belong to Esprit.

Can't see it myself. The mid-engined sportscar market hardly belonged to the Esprit - it was a niche product for the majority of it's lifetime, and seen as a cheaper alternative to more expensive rivals such as Ferrari. Lotus have always been the underdog wringing the most from very little, far from the boutique gold leaf and carbon fibre of McLaren.

I'm rather glad Lotus didn't reenter that market when Bahar's plan fell apart. The technology is moving very fast at the moment and Lotus just don't have the resources to gamble on the powertrain needed for a serious contender in that segment. The 'new Esprit' would have been still born and unlikely to recover, unlike the Evora which is in a part of the market where a fully bespoke powertrain isn't an absolute requirement.

But of course, that's not really your contention - you're unwilling to accept that the Evora is maturing into a serious competitor to the established players, and is ascending just as people are getting increasingly disillusioned with the mass-market manufacturers. Sure, it's not the ultimate Lotus, but it's now part of a company that can pay its way and start to think about the next model.

[SidewaysSi]

Ozzie Osmond said:

SidewaysSi said:

New non GT Porsches are pretty dull. Great for the man trading up from an Audi though.

Since you've decide to stir the "dull" pot, and given that Evora sales have been pitiful throughout the last 10 years, are we to believe the car is so "interesting" that nobody will buy it?

You know the answer to your own question so I won't bother responding.

[RobM77]

SidewaysSi said:

Ozzie Osmond said:

SidewaysSi said:

New non GT Porsches are pretty dull. Great for the man trading up from an Audi though.

Since you've decide to stir the "dull" pot, and given that Evora sales have been pitiful throughout the last 10 years, are we to believe the car is so "interesting" that nobody will buy it?

You know the answer to your own question so I won't bother responding.

To be honest Si, I don't view your comment quoted above as at all controversial. Audi and Porsche know full well what kind of buyer they're appealing to, and they provide cars for that sort of customer supremely well.

[SidewaysSi]

RobM77 said:

SidewaysSi said:

Ozzie Osmond said:

SidewaysSi said:

New non GT Porsches are pretty dull. Great for the man trading up from an Audi though.

Since you've decide to stir the "dull" pot, and given that Evora sales have been pitiful throughout the last 10 years, are we to believe the car is so "interesting" that nobody will buy it?

You know the answer to your own question so I won't bother responding.

To be honest Si, I don't view your comment quoted above as at all controversial. Audi and Porsche know full well what kind of buyer they're appealing to, and they provide cars for that sort of customer supremely well.

Entirely agree with you. It is just the usual response from our buddy Oz on a Lotus thread.

[RobM77]

SidewaysSi said:

RobM77 said:

SidewaysSi said:

Ozzie Osmond said:

SidewaysSi said:

New non GT Porsches are pretty dull. Great for the man trading up from an Audi though.

Since you've decide to stir the "dull" pot, and given that Evora sales have been pitiful throughout the last 10 years, are we to believe the car is so "interesting" that nobody will buy it?

You know the answer to your own question so I won't bother responding.

To be honest Si, I don't view your comment quoted above as at all controversial. Audi and Porsche know full well what kind of buyer they're appealing to, and they provide cars for that sort of customer supremely well.

Entirely agree with you. It is just the usual response from our buddy Oz on a Lotus thread.

And to that I'd give an uncontroversial reply, which is the classic pleasing 90% of the people quite a bit vs pleasing 10% of the people an awful lot.

[braddo]

Ozzie Osmond said:

My interest is great mid-engine sportscars. It's a huge disappointment to me that Lotus has promised so much and delivered so little. Just look at McLaren - from a standing start they now completely dominate the British mid-engined sportscar market which used to belong to Esprit.

It's not the Evora's fault that Bahar came in and sidelined it. Nor is it the Evora's fault that a global financial crisis was taking place during the first few years of its life (and arguably, continues).

The Evora has had its minor faults but it delivers best-in-class ride, handling and steering (and subjectively for many - pure fun and sense of occasion). I don't understand how that can be a huge disappointment.

Just because it doesn't match Porsche products and their all-round abilities, doesn't make the Evora st.

[saaby93]

Ozzie Osmondo said:

My interest is great mid-engine sportscars. It's a huge disappointment to me that Lotus has promised so much and delivered so little. Just look at McLaren - from a standing start they now completely dominate the British mid-engined sportscar market which used to belong to Esprit.

Didnt that market move on which is where the Evora moved?
Anyway I can't remember now but is there a slight difference in price between a McLaren and an Evora

[CABC]

Oz, provokes and challenges.
As he knows - in fact he quoted the figures previously - Porsche don't even sell sports cars, they sell SUVs in huge numbers. It's the money from Cayennes and Macans that enable them to produce solid, well engineered cars. Lotus don't have that revenue stream to prop up their cars.
Road&Track article is great news (tbh, i never thought the americans would get it)

[RobM77]

CABC said:

Oz, provokes and challenges.
As he knows - in fact he quoted the figures previously - Porsche don't even sell sports cars, they sell SUVs in huge numbers. It's the money from Cayennes and Macans that enable them to produce solid, well engineered cars. Lotus don't have that revenue stream to prop up their cars.
Road&Track article is great news (tbh, i never thought the americans would get it)

That's a really good point. A few years ago I read Harry's column in Evo stating that Range Rover sold more Evoques than all the sports cars in Europe put together

[CTE]

One thing is for sure, despite Lotus`s hopeless marketing, they feature highly in Pistonheads because almost every time there is an article about a Lotus product, it achieves a significant response from Pistonheader`s...so we are very aware of the products.

I for one hope they remain niche and subsequently low in numbers etc, although they do need to make some serious money from somewhere to pay for the development...and the future survival of the company...which the current crew seem to be doing their best to screw up.