RE: Porsche 718 Boxster: Review

[Pan Pan Pan]

jayemm89 said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

This is what apparently what does happen to quite a few buyers of such cars, and they turn up at the dealerships some time later wanting to sell the car back with their licences away with the fairies. (the dealerships are only too happy to do so, but at no where near the price the punter had just paid for it) It is also evidenced by the number of punters, who hire a high performance car for a wedding/birthday/ other significant event etc, and then crash it.
looks like a mid range Caterham could be a good performance car choice for many, in that its `overall' performance is more in line with day to day driving on public roads than a super/hyper car might be?

Although this is really a discussion for another topic, cars becoming faster is obviously an issue for many. One reason why I personally would not be interested in a new 911 - hell, my old 996 C4 was plenty capable of getting me into trouble with the law if you weren't sensible.

I think the majority of owners of these cars are more than able to keep them at sensible or appropriate speeds. Whether those are always legal speeds, who knows. I tend to find the fastest vehicles on the roads are usually white vans and taxis. Whenever I'm driving a flash car I probably drive slower than normal on motorways etc... because I'm so blatantly visible, a copper might feel the need to check my speed where he would not have bothered were I in my Peugeot 207 van.

As for blokes crashing supercars on wedding hire, that is no doubt a combination of lack of experience and a desire to show off with no time to actually learn the car's limits in a safe environment. As a motorcyclist it frustrates me to see the path to 1000cc superbikes becoming ever more difficult (not an inherently bad thing) but the only thing stopping Junior getting into a Lamborghini for his first car is whether Daddy can afford the insurance.

I would agree that when driving a flash /fast car, it is probably a good idea to generally drive slower, because in many cases they stand out like a t*rd in a swimming pool. If such a car was in a line of cars doing significantly over a limit, there are probably no prizes for guessing which one is `most' likely to get pulled.
One advantage is that generally when in such a car, there really is no need to actually demonstrate what it can do, because most sensible people would have an idea. Still find it daft though, seeing a super/high performance car being tail gated by a kn*b in a hatch back, But also when in such a car the temptation to give it a poke on what appears to be an empty road, must be quite strong. It might often seem like buying an amplifier that goes up to eleven, but only ever turning it up to 2!

[jayemm89]

I expect that explains the rise in popularity of track days. Frankly if local councils were sensible they should be encouraging them rather than trying to do everything they can to end them, but that's the petrolhead viewpoint I suppose.

[Pan Pan Pan]

je777 said:

kambites said:

je777 said:

They've - knowingly - made it worse.

No, they've knowingly made it less driver-focussed. Not the same thing at all in a mainstream car.

True enough. When I said 'worse' I meant only from my own point of view, which is that a sports car should be designed to be good to drive. By giving it electric power steering, a 4-cyl engine and 'economical' gearing they've made it less good to drive (my opinion, of course, but one shared, I think, by most who care about whether or not it's fun to drive).
The car may well be excellent, but how many of us don't think it would be better without those three 'flaws'?
I just can't see the logic in having those three things, purely to save some petrol. If your aim is frugality or environmental friendliness don't buy a Porsche.
None of this will affect sales too much, but I'm not talking about money.

Apparently some dealerships have already sold out their 2017 quotas for the 718, I think Porsche may have given themselves a problem, in that the designed from the ground up mid engine format, was likely to dynamically challenge the inherited from the VW beetle, engine hanging out behind the rear wheels format of the 911. So some sort of differentiator was going to have to be put in place.
What surprised me about the 718 was the greater immediacy of access to the power, as well as achieving greater power with a smaller engine, That and the noise apart which was different, but subjectively much worse than the six? Hard to say. As for the rest of the car, that seems to be hardly much different to the model the 718 replaces.

[anonymous-user]

je777 said:

I think why cmoose was annoyed - rightly, in my view - was because you took what he/she said and then misrepresented it according to your own beliefs on 'what people on ph generally say'. You've done the same here.
Electric steering, four cylinders, awful gearing would niggle me. As I said. Because there's no good reason for any of them to be like that. It was - manifestly - just my subjective opinion.
All the stuff you then add about elitism, 'more of purist' and hairdressers is nothing to do with me because I didn't say it; and I won't be discussing it further (because you seem not to discuss what people actually say, but what you imagine they say - as you've shown in your discussion with cmoose, no matter how many times it was, very clearly, stated to you).

For the avoidance of doubt I made it clear to CMoose that I appreciated I had misread his use of the phrase "Porsche is toast". I maintain that it's a strange choice of words to use, coming as it does usually with such negative connotations, but I am clearer as to his meaning. I see it as a dimming of the light as far as a certain type of owner/buyer/fan of the brand is concerned and not a commercial collapse, if I'm wrong I'm sure he'll clarify further.

As to why you think I've have misrepresented your views I'm baffled - in fact I made it very clear that you hadn't made those particularly inflammatory statements that dog this range of cars, I also implied that I thought you were wrong to rule out people who enjoy driving as not wanting to buy this car and posited a view that worse and different were not the same thing. None of that is a personal attack or in any way slurring your character so just as with him not sure why you are being so prickly.

Same as I'd say to CMoose, come and say hello at a Sunday Service, a Porsche Club event or similar and we'll have a much better conversation about the world than we can ever do from behind a computer and all the subtleties and nuances are far easier to read , then you'll know for certain if I'm the sort of prick you don't want to engage in conversation with or not

TYPOS !

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 13th November 13:43

[kambites]

je777 said:

kambites said:

je777 said:

They've - knowingly - made it worse.

No, they've knowingly made it less driver-focussed. Not the same thing at all in a mainstream car.

True enough. When I said 'worse' I meant only from my own point of view, which is that a sports car should be designed to be good to drive. By giving it electric power steering, a 4-cyl engine and 'economical' gearing they've made it less good to drive (my opinion, of course, but one shared, I think, by most who care about whether or not it's fun to drive).
The car may well be excellent, but how many of us don't think it would be better without those three 'flaws'?
I just can't see the logic in having those three things, purely to save some petrol. If your aim is frugality or environmental friendliness don't buy a Porsche.
None of this will affect sales too much, but I'm not talking about money.

Everyone, even amongst driving enthusiasts, has different priorities. For me, the death-knell came when they switched to variable ratio steering racks. Clearly not many people agreed, but for me swapping to EPAS when they'd already ruined the hydraulic rack in the previous generation was a bit of a moot point anyway.

Plenty of driving fans will still buy them because they value "chassis" above "controls" or "engine". Very few things can match the innate balance of the Boxster's chassis.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 13th November 13:45

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I never said anything about disliking anybody's posts? Just making an observation, and it's not just my own. People will take things personally if you talk down to them, which unfortunately you seem unable to curb. See above for an example!

[jayemm89]

Pan Pan Pan makes a good point. I actually know one person who bought a 718 simply because he wants to get in with his dealer and be first in line for the 718 GT4.

Porsche apparently said that the reason the Boxster got a four was a space issue. Personally I suspect even if that was the case, having the 3.0L six in there would have been a killer.

As we know, having a 50-60bhp difference between NA engines is going to be fairly hard for aftermarket guys to make up. But if you just had the same FI engine in a lower state of tune, it'd be about five minutes before someone tuned it up to 911 power levels

[HokumPokum]

kambites said:

Everyone, even amongst driving enthusiasts, has different priorities. For me, the death-knell came when they switched to variable ratio steering racks. Clearly not many people agreed, but for me swapping to EPAS when they'd already ruined the hydraulic rack in the previous generation was a bit of a moot point anyway.

Plenty of driving fans will still buy them because they value "chassis" above "controls" or "engine". Very few things can match the innate balance of the Boxster's chassis.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 13th November 13:45

I agree with this and it is precisely why I bought the GT4. the chassis.

whether na or turbo, the engine is meh anyway to me and quite frankly the lower decibels associated with a turbo car actually appeal to me.
I don't have to worry too much about passing noise tests on track or seem like a tt driving at 3k rpm.

in fact i look forward to the 718 gt4 and hope it will be turbo 4 with pdk and with 400+ HP and a serious amount of torque to alleviate the gearing issues on the current GT4. I'm sure the chassis will be further honed and lap times will drop which is what I'm after. If i need something to enjoy driving on the roads, an mx5 or Gt86 will do nicely or actually my C63 with it's undertyred chassis.

[Smokey32]

Richard-G said:

I agree with everything you said, however I must take issue with two things, the F type isn't a handful in the wet at all, my V6s is a peach in all weathers so much so I've never used the rain mode once and I don't hang about!. Also if traction is important they do the AWD version which is limpet like (although a tad more pricey).

as for the Toyota engine in what I assume you mean the Evora 400 or the Exige....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n19_4hXjiC0

The GT4 sounds much nicer. Lotus sounds like a chavs corsa.

[kambites]

Smokey32 said:

The GT4 sounds much nicer. Lotus sounds like a chavs corsa.

That well-known V6 Corsa?

[anonymous-user]

kambites said:

That well-known V6 Corsa?

You can't tell some

[jayemm89]

Well, I'm glad my videos are proving useful to some

[Ozzie Osmond]

For the benefit of those who may harbour any doubts about the 981/718 line as serious sportscars I've had a look back at what was said at launch in 2012,

Autocar. "The new Boxster isn't far short of a dazzling achievement. The seemingly effortless interplay between genuine, everyday usability and attainable, relishable performance has been taken to a level previously only inhabited by the Cayman. There is a very real sense that many of the quantifiable improvements are merely background to the nebulous business of enriching the sensory relationship between car and driver. Porsche's new roadster now stands as one of the very best cars available to buy in UK today."

Car. "There is a fluidity and transparency to this car which makes even the 911 feel edgy in comparison. It is a seamless performer, athletic yet nicely balanced, absolutely focused yet so very relaxed."

Road & Track. "This is the first genuinely new Boxster sine its 1997 introduction. To say it's a success is an understatement. The steering and handling are absolutely impeccable."

911 & Porsche world. "Porsche's engineers have programmed the level of steering assistance to near-perfect pitch, making the Boxster even more of a hardcore sports car than ever it was.".

Doesn't sound too shabby.

[jayemm89]

... and I believe all of the reviews I've read of the 718 have generally been 4/4.5/5 stars. With the missing star or half-star usually attributed to the engine's lack of character/nice noise.

I suppose it's one of these things, like if Rolls Royce released a car which wasn't quite the last word in ride comfort. It could be absolutely stellar in every other area, but as ride comfort is a big part of that car's raison d'etre, it'd be an issue. Same with the sports car. For a lot of people the car lives or dies by its engine. Wrongly or rightly. Some are happy to have a compromised chassis just to have a great engine. Others not so much. All balance and all in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

[nickfrog]

Ozzie Osmond said:

For the benefit of those who may harbour any doubts about the 981/718 line as serious sportscars I've had a look back at what was said at launch in 2012,

Autocar. "The new Boxster isn't far short of a dazzling achievement. The seemingly effortless interplay between genuine, everyday usability and attainable, relishable performance has been taken to a level previously only inhabited by the Cayman. There is a very real sense that many of the quantifiable improvements are merely background to the nebulous business of enriching the sensory relationship between car and driver. Porsche's new roadster now stands as one of the very best cars available to buy in UK today."

Car. "There is a fluidity and transparency to this car which makes even the 911 feel edgy in comparison. It is a seamless performer, athletic yet nicely balanced, absolutely focused yet so very relaxed."

Road & Track. "This is the first genuinely new Boxster sine its 1997 introduction. To say it's a success is an understatement. The steering and handling are absolutely impeccable."

911 & Porsche world. "Porsche's engineers have programmed the level of steering assistance to near-perfect pitch, making the Boxster even more of a hardcore sports car than ever it was.".

Doesn't sound too shabby.

Yes but the 4-pot has changed all that, apparently. Plus, it's primarily bought by non-enthusiasts non-purists now so Porsche don't even bother appealing to those anymore, apparently.

[nickfrog]

What seems to upset people is the mere implication that an enthusiast can like a turbo flat 4.

[Pan Pan Pan]

nickfrog said:

What seems to upset people is the mere implication that an enthusiast can like a turbo flat 4.

Quite a few like that set up in the Subaru, and quite a few of those seem to be enthusiasts.

[Ozzie Osmond]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

There's always somebody else to blame - yet you turn up in thread after thread with,

"I don't like 4-pot turbo engines"

"I don't like modern Porsches"

"I especially don't like 4-pot turbo engines in modern Porsches"

Dressing up your bigotry as the perfectly honed opinion of some PH enthusiast driving god doesn't fool anyone.

Can you think of anything constructive to say about 718 in the context of a car enthusiast forum?

[Smokey32]

kambites said:

That well-known V6 Corsa?

Might as well be, sounds pants.

if you want a nice V6 noise, try an Alfa one, a F Type, NSX or Golf R32.

[alan powley]

A very nice write up and a nice car .