RE: Ford Focus RS Mk2: PH Heroes

[316Mining]

And if someone did offer up a good RS at 14k, RS direct would snap it up and relist for 22k.

[Johnnytheboy]

316Mining said:

s m said:

Janesy B said:

Or if a single supplier controls the market, which RSDirect seems to do.

Can you only buy a Mk2 Focus RS from RS Direct? There are no private ones for sale?

Of course you can. But if RS direct say that the price of a 7 year old RS is 23k and they have 90 for sale, the private seller is going to be asking 21-22k as an undercut isn't he.... rather than the 14-15k that it should be.

But why has this not been the case for other small volume cars on the used car market.

Without demand, the strategy wouldn't work.

Obviously PH has spoken and all those buyers are wrong, but there you go.

[Smokey32]

White or blue look good. The green is st. Looks great on a lambo. Not on a focus.

Meh 20k for a fwd hatch that struggles for traction in stock form. You cant ignore the price. Its mental. But then most fast fords seem to be.

[316Mining]

Johnnytheboy said:

316Mining said:

s m said:

Janesy B said:

Or if a single supplier controls the market, which RSDirect seems to do.

Can you only buy a Mk2 Focus RS from RS Direct? There are no private ones for sale?

Of course you can. But if RS direct say that the price of a 7 year old RS is 23k and they have 90 for sale, the private seller is going to be asking 21-22k as an undercut isn't he.... rather than the 14-15k that it should be.

But why has this not been the case for other small volume cars on the used car market.

Without demand, the strategy wouldn't work.

Obviously PH has spoken and all those buyers are wrong, but there you go.

There is a big demand for the Focus RS. Not so much with other brands. I think its surprising how many people still worship fast Ford.

Also, people that couldn't afford it 10 years ago due to cost and insurance releated to their age, are now more able to, as they get to their 30's or early 40's. Treat themselves to the car they wanted 10 years ago now they have money and no claims.

[anonymous-user]

316Mining said:

Fast Fords hold their value well because there's a huge fan base - literally into the millions. There's always someone waiting/wanting to buy.

You could buy a 4 yeas old M3 but many M3 owners have a 'keeping up with the neighbours' image issue. older M3's are definitely falling into the shadier side of ownership too.... That's why they can be a relative bargain. Furthermore, they need far more money spending on them long term. When M3/5 owners are spending money on servicing and repairs, Focus owners are spending money on upgrades.

Clearly they appeal to many people, but also clearly the likes of RS Direct keep the prices unreasonably high.

Its a 12k car being sold for 20k, but has so many fans there will always be buyers.

You don't think that the Focus RS has an image problem, strange.

[s m]

Johnnytheboy said:

316Mining said:

s m said:

Janesy B said:

Or if a single supplier controls the market, which RSDirect seems to do.

Can you only buy a Mk2 Focus RS from RS Direct? There are no private ones for sale?

Of course you can. But if RS direct say that the price of a 7 year old RS is 23k and they have 90 for sale, the private seller is going to be asking 21-22k as an undercut isn't he.... rather than the 14-15k that it should be.

But why has this not been the case for other small volume cars on the used car market.

Without demand, the strategy wouldn't work.

Obviously PH has spoken and all those buyers are wrong, but there you go.

Yes, I would have thought it was a lot easier to control the market with a low volume car like the R26R that had rave reviews...or things like the M3 CSL.

Or has someone already cornered the market on those?

[Johnnytheboy]

yonex said:

You don't think that the Focus RS has an image problem, strange.

It has an image, maybe not a problem.

I actually quite like the lairy image of my green one. The only people that it gets attention from are children and tattooed people. I live in quite a nice house in quite a nice village, so it amuses me to confound my neighbours' expectations.

I admit I wouldn't have a green one as a daily, the blue one is a lot less in your face. Don't like the white tbh.

Obviously people are more polite in person than online, but the only person that's ever been rude about it to my face was of the Guardian-lentil-hippy-cyclist woman tendency who would have hated any performance car you could name. Can't remember exactly what she said while in a petrol station, but it was something like "I don't know how you can be seen driving that, while she was refuelling some kind of elderly Japanese MPV.

[Leins]

Funnily enough, back in 2010 when I briefly looked at one of these for an occasional car, it was priced somewhat similarly to the likes of 964 & 996 Turbos, 993 C4S and M3 CSLs. So in terms of where the market is now it doesn't seem all that mad a price I suppose

I went for the monochrome rep-box myself

[Johnnytheboy]

s m said:

Yes, I would have thought it was a lot easier to control the market with a low volume car like the R26R that had rave reviews...or things like the M3 CSL.

Or has someone already cornered the market on those?

Wouldn't take much cornering in the case of the R26R, didn't Renault fail so utterly to sell it that nearly half the RHD ones were sent back to France?

[s m]

Johnnytheboy said:

s m said:

Yes, I would have thought it was a lot easier to control the market with a low volume car like the R26R that had rave reviews...or things like the M3 CSL.

Or has someone already cornered the market on those?

Wouldn't take much cornering in the case of the R26R, didn't Renault fail so utterly to sell it that nearly half the RHD ones were sent back to France?

I think they sold around 110-120 IIRC - wouldn't take much outlay to buy all examples on sale I guess. With the CSL there were about 4x that many RHD cars and they're going for, what, say 60k each on average. Obviously your unit price is double a Mk2 RS Focus but there's probably far less on sale than the Focus. so overall outlay would be lower

[andymc]

316Mining said:

s m said:

Janesy B said:

Or if a single supplier controls the market, which RSDirect seems to do.

Can you only buy a Mk2 Focus RS from RS Direct? There are no private ones for sale?

Of course you can. But if RS direct say that the price of a 7 year old RS is 23k and they have 90 for sale, the private seller is going to be asking 21-22k as an undercut isn't he.... rather than the 14-15k that it should be.

they have 7 for sale out of 149 on autotrader, hardly a monopoly

[s m]

andymc said:

316Mining said:

s m said:

Janesy B said:

Or if a single supplier controls the market, which RSDirect seems to do.

Can you only buy a Mk2 Focus RS from RS Direct? There are no private ones for sale?

Of course you can. But if RS direct say that the price of a 7 year old RS is 23k and they have 90 for sale, the private seller is going to be asking 21-22k as an undercut isn't he.... rather than the 14-15k that it should be.

they have 7 for sale out of 149 on autotrader, hardly a monopoly

That seems to fly in the face of the theory to a certain extent doesn't it? Can you control the market with less than 5% of the stock available?

[316Mining]

andymc said:

they have 7 for sale out of 149 on autotrader, hardly a monopoly

They appear to have seriously diversified their offering from previous years. Which I guess is good.

There was a time that almost every RS Focus for sale in the PH classifieds was from RD Direct. Maybe 40 plus cars at any time.

[s m]

316Mining said:

andymc said:

they have 7 for sale out of 149 on autotrader, hardly a monopoly

They appear to have seriously diversified their offering from previous years. Which I guess is good.

There was a time that almost every RS Focus for sale in the PH classifieds was from RD Direct. Maybe 40 plus cars at any time.

Do you think the prices will be down to 14k very soon then now that the market isn't so stringently controlled?

[Ahbefive]

andymc said:

316Mining said:

s m said:

Janesy B said:

Or if a single supplier controls the market, which RSDirect seems to do.

Can you only buy a Mk2 Focus RS from RS Direct? There are no private ones for sale?

Of course you can. But if RS direct say that the price of a 7 year old RS is 23k and they have 90 for sale, the private seller is going to be asking 21-22k as an undercut isn't he.... rather than the 14-15k that it should be.

they have 7 for sale out of 149 on autotrader, hardly a monopoly

Exactly, I'm not sure how people think selling 7 cars for good money dictates the market. The RS has great USP's, wide body, lots of performance parts (Brembo/Quaife etc) and a great enginethat makes a great sound. Thats why it holds its money well, nothing else is like it.

[Johnnytheboy]

Of course, once the mk3 starts to appear in big enough numbers I suspect the residuals of mk2s will suffer.

That's usually the pattern in similar situations.

[316Mining]

s m said:

316Mining said:

andymc said:

they have 7 for sale out of 149 on autotrader, hardly a monopoly

They appear to have seriously diversified their offering from previous years. Which I guess is good.

There was a time that almost every RS Focus for sale in the PH classifieds was from RD Direct. Maybe 40 plus cars at any time.

Do you think the prices will be down to 14k very soon then now that the market isn't so stringently controlled?

No I think people will still ask silly money, as the car has this 'reputation' of having such strong residuals that nearly all owners have very high expectations on resale value. It would take a recession to see this myth reversed. It would take a few desperate sellers to seriously drop the perceived value of the car. Even leggy ones are 18k or so.

Still only a few thousand available but the potential buyer market is very big. Many people like the car, whether its in your opinion good or not.

[s m]

Johnnytheboy said:

Of course, once the mk3 starts to appear in big enough numbers I suspect the residuals of mk2s will suffer.

That's usually the pattern in similar situations.

Supply AND demand then Johnny? As you suggested earlier?

[Johnnytheboy]

s m said:

Johnnytheboy said:

Of course, once the mk3 starts to appear in big enough numbers I suspect the residuals of mk2s will suffer.

That's usually the pattern in similar situations.

Supply AND demand then Johnny? As you suggested earlier?

Once the newer model becomes available, interest in the old one will inevitably fall off.

(If it doesn't I'll be very happy!)

[316Mining]

s m said:

Johnnytheboy said:

Of course, once the mk3 starts to appear in big enough numbers I suspect the residuals of mk2s will suffer.

That's usually the pattern in similar situations.

Supply AND demand then Johnny? As you suggested earlier?

I think there is more love for the Mk2. And it is starting to lose numbers as they get written off, whereas the Mk3 is just starting production. 5000 registered in 2012, 4400 by 2014 (includes Mk1 though I think in those figures)

I think demand will remain strong as it gets older. Similar to the Escort Cosworth RS. Once out of production it gained in value year on year.