RE: Lotus Exige Sport 380
Discussion
RobM77 said:
Needless to say, if you want a fast car and don't care about type approval, you can quite easily tune the Exige to your requirements. It'll never be a 700bhp 1000kg monster like the top Ultimas are, but it depends what you want.
Someone might argue with that. I don't think type approval can be left out of the discussion. The survival of Lotus depends on being able to sell cars around the world, not just to UK hardcore trackday enthusiasts. They could strip out all sorts of unnecessary weight from most cars in the range (radio, air-con, cup holders), but that would loose the appeal to a fair chunk of the already limited market. They don't need to sell in Porsche numbers, but they do need to sell more than Ultima or Ariel.
RobM77 said:
Kambites was giving the reason for those weights, nothing more!
I don't know this, but I suspect you'll find that the Ultima's space frame isn't anywhere near as stiff as the Exige's chassis and the ride and handling isn't as good, not due to incompetence on Ultima's part, but purely because handling is a difficult thing to get right and Lotus are the best in the world at it.
Needless to say, if you want a fast car and don't care about type approval, you can quite easily tune the Exige to your requirements. It'll never be a 700bhp 1000kg monster like the top Ultimas are, but it depends what you want.
I'm a big fan of the Ultima (and Lotus as well). McLaren used a donor Ultima chassis in their development of the F1. Did you know that? Ultima also have a number of world records in the performance area, among having one of the fastest times around Dunsfold. Faster than the Ferrari fxx driven by some no-name bloke called M. Schumacher.I don't know this, but I suspect you'll find that the Ultima's space frame isn't anywhere near as stiff as the Exige's chassis and the ride and handling isn't as good, not due to incompetence on Ultima's part, but purely because handling is a difficult thing to get right and Lotus are the best in the world at it.
Needless to say, if you want a fast car and don't care about type approval, you can quite easily tune the Exige to your requirements. It'll never be a 700bhp 1000kg monster like the top Ultimas are, but it depends what you want.
In fact, the Ultima drove itself to the circuit, did the lap, and then drove home. Some other cars have been transported in and had support teams go over them from front to back.
Don't get me wrong; I think this Lotus is a great little car. But up against an Ultima, its like seeing a poodle getting pulled apart by an angry pitbull.
Edited by big_rob_sydney on Monday 28th November 12:32
SpudLink said:
RobM77 said:
Needless to say, if you want a fast car and don't care about type approval, you can quite easily tune the Exige to your requirements. It'll never be a 700bhp 1000kg monster like the top Ultimas are, but it depends what you want.
Someone might argue with that. I don't think type approval can be left out of the discussion. The survival of Lotus depends on being able to sell cars around the world, not just to UK hardcore trackday enthusiasts. They could strip out all sorts of unnecessary weight from most cars in the range (radio, air-con, cup holders), but that would loose the appeal to a fair chunk of the already limited market. They don't need to sell in Porsche numbers, but they do need to sell more than Ultima or Ariel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3y7qbSCB44
0-340kph (211mph) in 19 seconds...
You're having a discussion about the manufacturer. Personally, I've never cared about a manufacturer, because the aftermarket is always there. On top of that, the manufacturers often engage in dubious strategies (look at Porsche with their limited editions that you cant really buy, Ferrari with their branding into tat, etc etc). About the only concern is whether you'll get warranty support. Beyond that, I couldn't give a crap about a manufacturer.
Kambites, you can have a fully built car from the factory (ie not a kit car), for < £100k.
And just to really drive the point home:
http://www.evo.co.uk/news/15706/ultima-evolution-u...
Ultima Evolution unveiled with 1020bhp
SAM SHEEHAN9 APR 2015
Performance figures of record-breaking sports car released
Ultima Sports has revealed its most powerful sports car to date: the Evolution. Producing as much as 1020bhp from a supercharged 6.8-litre V8, the lightweight Evolution is capable of racing from 0-60mph in just 2.3sec.
As staggering as that number is, it’s the car’s record breaking rolling performance that impresses most. 0-100mph takes just 4.9sec, while 150mph arrives only four seconds later. Ultima claims the Evolution will keep on accelerating hard beyond 240mph before it bounces off the limiter in sixth gear.
Power comes from a Chevrolet-sourced V8 LS with a supercharger, and is sent through a Porsche six-speed transaxle. A billet quick-shifter cable system enables fast gear changes – enough to record a rapid 9.2sec standing quarter-mile time.
Weighing 950kg, the new Ultima produces 1091bhp/ton; that’s 98bhp more than the Koenigsegg One:1 does. A major contributor to this slender weight is the Ultima’s hollow space-frame chassis and glassfibre-reinforced plastic body.
Ultima claims the space-frame provides ‘market leading rigidity,’ while the clear-gel-coated GRP body is moulded to generate high-speed downforce.
The car is sprung on TIG welded double wishbones and fully adjustable coil spring dampers. Forged lightweight one-piece alloy wheels 18 inches in diameter are wrapped in Michelin Pilot Sport 2 rubber. Stopping power comes from AP Racing 12.7-inch curved vane vented discs with stainless steel hoses all round and adjustable brake bias.
Inside, leather and Alcantara stretches over sports seats and a dial-strewn dash. A leather-wrapped roll-cage confirms the car’s high-speed intentions, but the addition of air conditioning, an Alpine in-car entertainment system and optional satnav are welcome luxuries.
In short, the Evolution is a proper racer for the road and packs enough grunt to shame even the fastest of hypercars. Below the 1020bhp model will sit 14 other variants, all utilising power from the same V8 in different states of tune. The Evolution even comes available in both coupe and convertible form.
The entry level Evolution produces 350bhp and sells from £65,995, though Ultima will also sell it in kit form for £38,000. Buyers after a fully built 1020bhp model will need £95,995. That’s Porsche 911 GT3 money for McLaren P1-beating performance.
And just to really drive the point home:
http://www.evo.co.uk/news/15706/ultima-evolution-u...
Ultima Evolution unveiled with 1020bhp
SAM SHEEHAN9 APR 2015
Performance figures of record-breaking sports car released
Ultima Sports has revealed its most powerful sports car to date: the Evolution. Producing as much as 1020bhp from a supercharged 6.8-litre V8, the lightweight Evolution is capable of racing from 0-60mph in just 2.3sec.
As staggering as that number is, it’s the car’s record breaking rolling performance that impresses most. 0-100mph takes just 4.9sec, while 150mph arrives only four seconds later. Ultima claims the Evolution will keep on accelerating hard beyond 240mph before it bounces off the limiter in sixth gear.
Power comes from a Chevrolet-sourced V8 LS with a supercharger, and is sent through a Porsche six-speed transaxle. A billet quick-shifter cable system enables fast gear changes – enough to record a rapid 9.2sec standing quarter-mile time.
Weighing 950kg, the new Ultima produces 1091bhp/ton; that’s 98bhp more than the Koenigsegg One:1 does. A major contributor to this slender weight is the Ultima’s hollow space-frame chassis and glassfibre-reinforced plastic body.
Ultima claims the space-frame provides ‘market leading rigidity,’ while the clear-gel-coated GRP body is moulded to generate high-speed downforce.
The car is sprung on TIG welded double wishbones and fully adjustable coil spring dampers. Forged lightweight one-piece alloy wheels 18 inches in diameter are wrapped in Michelin Pilot Sport 2 rubber. Stopping power comes from AP Racing 12.7-inch curved vane vented discs with stainless steel hoses all round and adjustable brake bias.
Inside, leather and Alcantara stretches over sports seats and a dial-strewn dash. A leather-wrapped roll-cage confirms the car’s high-speed intentions, but the addition of air conditioning, an Alpine in-car entertainment system and optional satnav are welcome luxuries.
In short, the Evolution is a proper racer for the road and packs enough grunt to shame even the fastest of hypercars. Below the 1020bhp model will sit 14 other variants, all utilising power from the same V8 in different states of tune. The Evolution even comes available in both coupe and convertible form.
The entry level Evolution produces 350bhp and sells from £65,995, though Ultima will also sell it in kit form for £38,000. Buyers after a fully built 1020bhp model will need £95,995. That’s Porsche 911 GT3 money for McLaren P1-beating performance.
Edited by big_rob_sydney on Monday 28th November 12:50
big_rob_sydney said:
RobM77 said:
Kambites was giving the reason for those weights, nothing more!
I don't know this, but I suspect you'll find that the Ultima's space frame isn't anywhere near as stiff as the Exige's chassis and the ride and handling isn't as good, not due to incompetence on Ultima's part, but purely because handling is a difficult thing to get right and Lotus are the best in the world at it.
Needless to say, if you want a fast car and don't care about type approval, you can quite easily tune the Exige to your requirements. It'll never be a 700bhp 1000kg monster like the top Ultimas are, but it depends what you want.
I'm a big fan of the Ultima (and Lotus as well). McLaren used a donor Ultima chassis in their development of the F1. Did you know that? Ultima also have a number of world records in the performance area, among having one of the fastest times around Dunsfold. Faster than the Ferrari fxx driven by some no-name bloke called M. Schumacher.I don't know this, but I suspect you'll find that the Ultima's space frame isn't anywhere near as stiff as the Exige's chassis and the ride and handling isn't as good, not due to incompetence on Ultima's part, but purely because handling is a difficult thing to get right and Lotus are the best in the world at it.
Needless to say, if you want a fast car and don't care about type approval, you can quite easily tune the Exige to your requirements. It'll never be a 700bhp 1000kg monster like the top Ultimas are, but it depends what you want.
In fact, the Ultima drove itself to the circuit, did the lap, and then drove home. Some other cars have been transported in and had support teams go over them from front to back.
Don't get me wrong; I think this Lotus is a great little car. But up against an Ultima, its like seeing a poodle getting pulled apart by an angry pitbull.
Edited by big_rob_sydney on Monday 28th November 12:32
I'm a huge fan of the F1 and collect press cuttings on it and have the book etc.I've driven an Exige V6, but not an Ultima, so I'll reserve judgement until I've tried one. We should however remember Lotus' market leading reputation as far as ride and handling goes and the fact that performance is not everything. We also have to remember what level of power is usable on the road. I owned a 2-Eleven for 3 years and I can honestly say that even though I felt totally comfortable with the performance (I am used to driving much faster cars on track), you just couldn't use the power or grip on the road - nowhere near it in fact.
As I say though, I'll reserve judgement until I've driven both cars. What I can say from my position now though is when comparing two road cars and the slower of the two has the performance of the Exige Sport 380, the fact that the other car is faster wouldn't factor for me very much at all.
big_rob_sydney said:
Kambites, you can have a fully built car from the factory (ie not a kit car), for < £100k.
And just to really drive the point home:
http://www.evo.co.uk/news/15706/ultima-evolution-u...
And just to really drive the point home:
http://www.evo.co.uk/news/15706/ultima-evolution-u...
If someone had told me that in the pub I'd have called BS! Wow
big_rob_sydney said:
Kambites, you can have a fully built car from the factory (ie not a kit car), for < £100k.
They're certainly compelling value for money if you like that sort of thing. Personally, I'm not a power person. Besides, if I was going to go for something available as a kit I'd want to build it myself, that'd be as much fun as driving it for me.
Edited by kambites on Monday 28th November 14:12
I remember as a kid reading the CAR magazine article with the white Esprit turbo and the Red Ferrari 308. Then there was the Bond cars of course, and other notable Lotus moments like the Basic instinct and Pretty Woman movie appearances and a host of pop video appearances. The Esprit really seemed to me at the time a very exciting exotic top of the pile type supercar. But Lotus today being so focused on and it seems dependent on light weight track cars which is at the end of the day a very niche interest globally has diminished it for me possibly to the point that Lotus will never be a proper road car brand again. That Exige to me looks very old school, small, cramped, kit car'esque. I'm sure its an absolute hoot to drive and I know everyone will say that's the point of it, but lightweight cars using a mish mash of components from the after market or other manufacturers isn't all that difficult in car making terms. Lotus may be especially good at doing that type of thing but so are a thousand others out there so it doesn't really build the Lotus brand much in my view. If any car manufacturer needed proper road cars and needed them fast it's Lotus. Or else they're consigned to being a small track car producer almost exclusively. And maybe that is an appropriate legacy for Colin Chapman, just wouldn't be of interest to me or a lot of road orientated sports car buyers. It's incredible to think that should Lotus ever get around to making a new Esprit, the internal combustion engine may well have passed into history.
DonkeyApple said:
LambShank said:
They make a car called the Evora - it's a brilliant road car.
But it looks like the fit bird's obligatory dumpy mate whereas the Esprit was the fit bird. 
StangGT said:
The Evora 410 is gorgeous. Hardly a "dumpy mate"?!
Looks are obviously subjective but enough people have commented on its lack of sleekness. Every little change they've done over the years has been an improvement but regardless of all the clever little changes it's still this:
And unfortunately it does look really rather dumpy from a lot of angles. I've always thought it was basically a 150k car trapped in a £50k shell. I very much suspect that if it had a sleeker look far fewer people would pop up in these threads lamenting the Esprit because it's pretty clear just how much better the Evora is in every way but one. I think it's even a couple of inches lower than the Esprit but there's something about the design that makes it look so much taller.
LambShank said:
Irrespective of its age or whether it's either Sandra or Tracy, it's still a road going car, which was my only point put to the poster who doesn't think Lotus makes a road car.
(Hell, even the Exige is a bloody road car...)
Yup. I think the Evora is much more enthralling than a 911 and frankly I don't think there is any product to compare against the Exige, that's the real stand out and stand alone product. (Hell, even the Exige is a bloody road car...)
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff