RE: Audi TT RS vs. 718 Cayman S vs. F-Type S Coupe
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
"Porsche is too clinical" 
What a JOKE!Elise is more "driver's" car, maybe, it's lighter. It's a one-track-mind car though. You NEED to have another car if you have a Lotus. With a Cayman/Boxster you do not need another car, it's comfy, it's spacious, it has boots, it's freaking GREAT around corners. 6-Boxer was amazing, pedal to the metal in a 6-Boxer Cayman/Boxster with sport exhaust in a tunnel clears left lane mighty quickly!
SLK55 is a cool car, great engine...but in terms of handling nowhere near Cayman/Boxster.
There is a reason why Porsche Cayman/Boxster ALWAYS wins every comparison around the world.
Centurion07 said:
£17K of options on a TT?! What does that include?
An RS TT wouldn't be on my list anyway, but is that £17K reeeeeally worth it? Would most people drive that over a standard TT and think "yep, £17K better"? Genuine question.
Carbon ceramics for one, and it actually needs those.An RS TT wouldn't be on my list anyway, but is that £17K reeeeeally worth it? Would most people drive that over a standard TT and think "yep, £17K better"? Genuine question.
BUT, I watched a comparison of TTRS and COrvette on a German car magazine (that seems to be partial to VW, in fact) and the driver did not like the carbon ceramics on TTRS, they are strong but the tyres is the limiting link in this front-heavy car.
cayman-black said:
None of them are for me but one thing is for sure i would never buy a four pot Cayman no matter how good it was, what the f--k was Porsche thinking.
I concur. I bought 3.4L BoxsterS this year (with no mileage, a Porsche Exclusive exhibition car from Zuffenhausen), and I drove 4-pot back-to-back. I don't care how much stronger turbo-4 is, the 6-Boxer is a much more exciting engine. I would never buy a 4-pot Cayman/Boxster/911.JBaps said:
The conclusion is not unexpected from my point of view, however the reality is that I suspect that most drivers (myself included) would quickly outpace either the Porsche or the Jag when driving the TT. Basically, dull yes, but "simply" F'ing quick, even in conditions that would render the other two difficult by comparison (you know, that rainy thing...).
I guess it depends if you want day to day fast or more of an occasion (with less actual achievable pace), which makes me think the review is ill matched...
Straight line - yes. Try corners, TTRS does not really inspire confidence. I've had TTRS, with more front camber, other anti-roll bars and some other changes on suspension, it understeers, especially accelerating out of slow corners, it's nose-heavy and inherently FWD. I guess it depends if you want day to day fast or more of an occasion (with less actual achievable pace), which makes me think the review is ill matched...
spikyone said:
It was obvious from the start that the TT was out of its league here. Ultimately it's a TT, which has always been more coupe than sports car and has never been bought by keen petrolheads. It's a car for the badge-obsessed on a modest budget - successful hairdressers and the like. I can't work out who the RS is aimed at though. Lower league footballers who can't stretch to a Bentley Continental? Is anyone on PH actually looking at that TT and thinking "I need to have one"?
"Golf in a posh frock" might be harsh, but it's pretty fair. The platform is designed to take everything from a sub-100bhp diesel up to the TT RS, and that has to involve compromise. If you really want to get from one corner to the next quickly and without looking too flash, you might as well save yourself £20k and buy a Golf R with DSG and 95% of the performance. The TT is nowhere near special enough.
In a way I'm glad I can't afford the other two, that would be a very tough call.
Is this guy also a hairdresser?"Golf in a posh frock" might be harsh, but it's pretty fair. The platform is designed to take everything from a sub-100bhp diesel up to the TT RS, and that has to involve compromise. If you really want to get from one corner to the next quickly and without looking too flash, you might as well save yourself £20k and buy a Golf R with DSG and 95% of the performance. The TT is nowhere near special enough.
In a way I'm glad I can't afford the other two, that would be a very tough call.
http://www.350z-uk.com/topic/77375-jonny-cockers-t...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonny_Cocker
av185 said:
No way will manufacturers least of all Porsche revert back to hydraulic steering with their resultant weight, efficiency and economy compromises. Whilst EPAS systems have not quite retained the nuetrality weghting and feel of the better obsolete hydraulic systems, they are almost as good.....ref the major improvements between the standard 911 991.1 and latest gen cars as well as GTs....next years new GT3 EPAS is expected to be on a par with the 997 4.0 RS hydraulic system widely regarded as the sweet spot.
I can compare steering in my Boxster S and in my 997.1 Turbo. I know which system I prefer, and it is not the electric one.T5Andy said:
I've read the comments on this article with growing incredulity and then I read that the F Type is "similarly-practical" to the Porsche and I fell about laughing, try going away for the weekend in the Jag, you'll get your toothbrush in the boot (providing it's a small toothbrush) and that's about it! I've taken the Boxster to the airport with baggage for two for a weeks holiday with room to spare! I looked at the F Type and I have to say that the interior felt very cheap to me (plastics that Nissan would be embarrassed by). .......
You speak the truth! Now compare the convertible F-Type to a Boxster. My god, there is NO SPACE WHATSOEVER in an F-Type! Boxster has 2 pretty spacious boots!
Was sorely tempted by the F-Type S when I was shopping around over a year ago (couldn't quite push the budget to the V8 F-Type R, which is the motor you really need to push the Jag's ungainly weight around).
It is achingly beautiful from the front, Jag really nailed it there. The rear not so much, the slope-off without a lip or uplift spoils it for me. Though you could option a tagged-on rear spoiler which helped somewhat. The interior is spoiled by that carbuncle.
It's also a large and heavy car for a two-seater.
And when I read no less than two reviews where the manual gear stick actually came off in the reviewer's hand while driving, I was reminded that Jags are still low in the reliability stakes. I wouldn't want to spend north of £60k on a car which spends more time in Jag's garage being repaired than in my own garage at home. I walked around several models in dealerships, ummed and ahhed about going for a test drive, but figured I couldn't get past the negatives here, and decided I wouldn't be buying one.
TT was never a consideration due to the many objective reasons discussed here, along with other subjective ones of my own - silly little bubble cars to my eyes - I really don't like them.
BMWs I've loved and driven many for over 20 years now. Currently running an M235i, and a move to an M2 was the natural next step. But ... it would be too much of the same. I'd already decided I wanted something completely different.
So to the Cayman, a car I've always had an admiration for. I test drove a 981 GTS and loved it immediately. The low-seating position in a small, light, mid-engined 2-seater package was an absolute winner. A joy round every corner. Porsche's reputation for outstanding driving dynamics is there for a reason I realised.
I was toying around with configurations, speaking to dealers, making my final decisions, when I read about the impending 718 replacing the incumbent 981. I was intrigued. I prefer the punchy delivery of forced induction to naturally aspirated linearity, the thrill of the turbine whine tickles me, so the move from NA6 to the F4T caught my attention. I pulled out of a 981 GTS purchase.
Move on a few months and I finally got the opportunity to test drive a 718 Boxster S, in a lairy Porsche racing yellow colour. Wanted to pay particular attention to the variable vane turbine technology in this newly designed F4T block, how it delivers its power, how well it marries to the superb mid-engine chassis, how it feels as a package.
The sharpness and precision of the drive was slightly improved over the already brilliant 981. An absolute pleasure to throw into and push out of corners. The F4T was surprising, not quite what I expected somehow. It's marriage to the chassis was indeed outstanding. The whine not so noticeable but certainly present, with a mechanical, raspy sound to accompany it, tempered by the SE which was specced on my test model. The mid-range punch of the turbo was significant, an absolute delight. For me, if not others, the 718 chassis utterly suits the move to a smaller forced induction engine.
Certainly the package for me I decided, and though no 718 Cayman S models had yet shipped to the UK, I put down a deposit on one for when they did.
It is achingly beautiful from the front, Jag really nailed it there. The rear not so much, the slope-off without a lip or uplift spoils it for me. Though you could option a tagged-on rear spoiler which helped somewhat. The interior is spoiled by that carbuncle.
It's also a large and heavy car for a two-seater.
And when I read no less than two reviews where the manual gear stick actually came off in the reviewer's hand while driving, I was reminded that Jags are still low in the reliability stakes. I wouldn't want to spend north of £60k on a car which spends more time in Jag's garage being repaired than in my own garage at home. I walked around several models in dealerships, ummed and ahhed about going for a test drive, but figured I couldn't get past the negatives here, and decided I wouldn't be buying one.
TT was never a consideration due to the many objective reasons discussed here, along with other subjective ones of my own - silly little bubble cars to my eyes - I really don't like them.
BMWs I've loved and driven many for over 20 years now. Currently running an M235i, and a move to an M2 was the natural next step. But ... it would be too much of the same. I'd already decided I wanted something completely different.
So to the Cayman, a car I've always had an admiration for. I test drove a 981 GTS and loved it immediately. The low-seating position in a small, light, mid-engined 2-seater package was an absolute winner. A joy round every corner. Porsche's reputation for outstanding driving dynamics is there for a reason I realised.
I was toying around with configurations, speaking to dealers, making my final decisions, when I read about the impending 718 replacing the incumbent 981. I was intrigued. I prefer the punchy delivery of forced induction to naturally aspirated linearity, the thrill of the turbine whine tickles me, so the move from NA6 to the F4T caught my attention. I pulled out of a 981 GTS purchase.
Move on a few months and I finally got the opportunity to test drive a 718 Boxster S, in a lairy Porsche racing yellow colour. Wanted to pay particular attention to the variable vane turbine technology in this newly designed F4T block, how it delivers its power, how well it marries to the superb mid-engine chassis, how it feels as a package.
The sharpness and precision of the drive was slightly improved over the already brilliant 981. An absolute pleasure to throw into and push out of corners. The F4T was surprising, not quite what I expected somehow. It's marriage to the chassis was indeed outstanding. The whine not so noticeable but certainly present, with a mechanical, raspy sound to accompany it, tempered by the SE which was specced on my test model. The mid-range punch of the turbo was significant, an absolute delight. For me, if not others, the 718 chassis utterly suits the move to a smaller forced induction engine.
Certainly the package for me I decided, and though no 718 Cayman S models had yet shipped to the UK, I put down a deposit on one for when they did.
Edited by Tim bo on Sunday 4th December 10:58
Ho Lee Kau said:
spikyone said:
It was obvious from the start that the TT was out of its league here. Ultimately it's a TT, which has always been more coupe than sports car and has never been bought by keen petrolheads. It's a car for the badge-obsessed on a modest budget - successful hairdressers and the like. I can't work out who the RS is aimed at though. Lower league footballers who can't stretch to a Bentley Continental? Is anyone on PH actually looking at that TT and thinking "I need to have one"?
"Golf in a posh frock" might be harsh, but it's pretty fair. The platform is designed to take everything from a sub-100bhp diesel up to the TT RS, and that has to involve compromise. If you really want to get from one corner to the next quickly and without looking too flash, you might as well save yourself £20k and buy a Golf R with DSG and 95% of the performance. The TT is nowhere near special enough.
In a way I'm glad I can't afford the other two, that would be a very tough call.
Is this guy also a hairdresser?"Golf in a posh frock" might be harsh, but it's pretty fair. The platform is designed to take everything from a sub-100bhp diesel up to the TT RS, and that has to involve compromise. If you really want to get from one corner to the next quickly and without looking too flash, you might as well save yourself £20k and buy a Golf R with DSG and 95% of the performance. The TT is nowhere near special enough.
In a way I'm glad I can't afford the other two, that would be a very tough call.
http://www.350z-uk.com/topic/77375-jonny-cockers-t...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonny_Cocker
Am I the only one thinking
TTS + remap, = 20k in the bank, bangs for bucks for the performance available it wins this test all day long ?
Sadly a new 50-70k car will always be out of reach unless I retire to live in a tent
I'm reading these group tests with an eye for 3-6 years down the line, to buy a car to keep for the long term
TTS + remap, = 20k in the bank, bangs for bucks for the performance available it wins this test all day long ?
Sadly a new 50-70k car will always be out of reach unless I retire to live in a tent
I'm reading these group tests with an eye for 3-6 years down the line, to buy a car to keep for the long term
blue al said:
Am I the only one thinking
TTS + remap, = 20k in the bank, bangs for bucks for the performance available it wins this test all day long ?
If you're just after straight line speed, there's probably a cheaper way to do it than that. The TTS is still a £40k+ car.TTS + remap, = 20k in the bank, bangs for bucks for the performance available it wins this test all day long ?
Edited by kambites on Thursday 22 December 08:07
My point was more of an answer to the golf r suggestions, and the 60k + real world price point of this test
Their is a 30k gap in the market, and a re-tuned ford or Vauxhall product isn't really going to complete with the quality of the jag or Porsche, I believe the Audi is close enough that 20k + still in my pocket would be a consideration worth making,
If it matters not a jot if a car costs 40k or 70k then it's not really a relevant point, and I will leave this discussion to those with far bigger wallets than l
Ps:
I don't believe for a moment anyone suggesting the golf is the same as the Audi but in a different frock, has spent any time in both cars, the interior of the golf is even behind the latest 2014 mini f56,
Their is a 30k gap in the market, and a re-tuned ford or Vauxhall product isn't really going to complete with the quality of the jag or Porsche, I believe the Audi is close enough that 20k + still in my pocket would be a consideration worth making,
If it matters not a jot if a car costs 40k or 70k then it's not really a relevant point, and I will leave this discussion to those with far bigger wallets than l
Ps:
I don't believe for a moment anyone suggesting the golf is the same as the Audi but in a different frock, has spent any time in both cars, the interior of the golf is even behind the latest 2014 mini f56,
The TT RS has an image problem - not just the type of person that buys them, the platform sharing, the inert handling, the overpricing...in fact too much to actually list.
You could argue the same for the Porsche apart from the handling which gives this the (big) edge over the Audi, in the fact the Porsche can be seen as an actual 'sports car' something the Audi TT will never be classed as.
The Jag is nice and would be my choice if I were pressed to choose out of the 3. It's my sort of car; front engined, manual (although wouldn't mind the auto), RWD and has a meaty feeling on the road. It also looks good (in the right colour and wheel choice).
On the subject of option pricing - it's getting out of hand when you can spend the equivalent of a whole hatchback (and more) on a car - ok you have the choice and can pick and choose, but some things should be standard on such a expensive car. I guess if manufacturers can get away with they will.
You could argue the same for the Porsche apart from the handling which gives this the (big) edge over the Audi, in the fact the Porsche can be seen as an actual 'sports car' something the Audi TT will never be classed as.
The Jag is nice and would be my choice if I were pressed to choose out of the 3. It's my sort of car; front engined, manual (although wouldn't mind the auto), RWD and has a meaty feeling on the road. It also looks good (in the right colour and wheel choice).
On the subject of option pricing - it's getting out of hand when you can spend the equivalent of a whole hatchback (and more) on a car - ok you have the choice and can pick and choose, but some things should be standard on such a expensive car. I guess if manufacturers can get away with they will.
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