RE: PH 2016- Porsche 911 R vs the world!
Discussion
audidoody said:
Those Boaster engines are really something to brag about
Apologies for that; wasn't in Matt's raw copy and I don't think I'd have added it in myself so am putting it down to autocorrect taking matters into its own hands and adding an (admittedly amusing, in a Freudian slip kind of way) error of its own. Shouldn't have happened though, shouldn't have taken as long to address but it's sorted now. Am off to find wall to bang my head against now, do excuse me...
Dan
WTFWT said:
sidesauce said:
big_rob_sydney said:
And equally for that reason, I wont be buying any of their product. They and their OPC's with their dubious sales practises can rot in hell for all I care.
I will be buying at least one of their products. The availability, or lack thereof, of a 911R matters not one jot to me as I was never in the market for such a car. I will still gladly buy and enjoy running whatever I end up choosing to buy from them. My situation and viewpoint applies to most of the people who actually buy Porsches offerings. If you and a small minority (and in the greater scheme of things, you and others who share your opinion are NOT an 'enormous amount of people', particularly as 911s are not the main income making model for Porsche) of others want to take a stand, morally or otherwise, by voting with your wallets then fair play to you - have at it! Meanwhile, the people who actually want to own a Porsche, you know, like all those, Cayenne/Macan and Panameras that get bought worldwide every year, will continue to vote with their wallets too as Porsches profits show year on year.
You are free to grumble but as the world turns, Porsche/VAG make money, shareholders are happy and life goes on.
Edited by sidesauce on Tuesday 27th December 00:40
I have tried to buy a 911R and a 997 GT2 RS in both cases to be told, "not possible." I have never owned a Porsche before and, at this rate, never will. I have spent the money on 8C, DB4 and anything else that tickles my fancy that I could actually buy.
By not having me in the showroom for a handover, or in reception for service, the products are never in eyesight of my wife. She won't ever poke around a Cayenne and say, "Let's have one of these next instead of a Merc." Or, "I fancy something for the summer, let's have a Boxster."
I am a car nut, but the only Porsches I would like to buy, I can't. That doesn't seem right. I am not a buyer and therefore not an ambassador and am building no affinity with the dealer or company despite buying a car every year. That statement above, in isolation, seems an odd business situation to be comfortable with.
Porsche may not have you as a customer but they don't care as they have people literally queuing to buy their cars. You decided to not buy one? Fine. Better believe someone else will gladly take your place. Try buying a Macan right now - they're still on an 18 month waiting list, a face lifted model is about to come out and not only have they upped the price, they're offering to buy back the early (well-specced) models from customers for the price the customers paid for them originally; do their accountants care that some disgruntled folk will purchase another brand? Not a bit of it.
With respect, for you to say 'it doesn't seem right' because you personally can't get one makes no sense to me. If Porsche choose to make a few examples of a particular model available to their dealers, that's entirely up to them! Their business model doesn't fit the typical car manufacturer as the demand is simply so high so although it is odd they can do what they like.
Edited by sidesauce on Tuesday 27th December 17:24
av185 said:
All this whinging.....just buy a 991 GT3 instead.
Better car imo.....with just the right amount of aero.
Plus you don't have to put up with that hideous houndstooth trim in the R.
:
Win win.
But the gt3 is pdk !Better car imo.....with just the right amount of aero.
Plus you don't have to put up with that hideous houndstooth trim in the R.
:Win win.
Wish they would do a very basic 911
None assisted steering, manual gearbox, basic engine, no dynamic engine mounts, no interior to speak of, etc.
But I bet the chassis is so designed to work with all the tech, they would have to spend a fortune to get a back to basics version to work.
I still would like Porsche to replace the 911 in the line up with a GT1 style of supercar, then reposition the 911 as a raw sports car, but it won't happen.
Ho hum, just have to stick with my carrera, none assisted steering, manual gearbox, basic engine, no dynamic engine mounts, basic interior, no abs........LOTs of fun !
Try buying a Macan right now - they're still on an 18 months waiting list.........
Sorry, but incorrect, I was in Porsche two days before Xmas, said I could have new Macan by March/april. Dealer said that only the gts still has a waiting list. This dealer was not isolated, Portsmouth and reading said the same.
Sorry, but incorrect, I was in Porsche two days before Xmas, said I could have new Macan by March/april. Dealer said that only the gts still has a waiting list. This dealer was not isolated, Portsmouth and reading said the same.
Edited by Wayne58 on Tuesday 27th December 19:46
Wayne58 said:
Try buying a Macan right now - they're still on an 18 months waiting list.........
Sorry, but incorrect, I was in Porsche two days before Xmas, said I could have new Macan by March/april. Dealer said that only the gts still has a waiting list. This dealer was not isolated, Portsmouth and reading said the same.
Agreed.Sorry, but incorrect, I was in Porsche two days before Xmas, said I could have new Macan by March/april. Dealer said that only the gts still has a waiting list. This dealer was not isolated, Portsmouth and reading said the same.
Other 911 models also haven't got a long waiting list - it just over demand and under supply on GTs and the R. I'm happy to wait 12 months but the numbers are limited so you won't get one, unless you are on the inner circle.
I bet that in hindsight a lot of people at Porsche probably regret the business model chosen for this car due to the huge amount of negative publicity it has generated, not only amongst internet whiners and keyboard warriors but (apparently) also amongst what would otherwise be paying customers.
This hurts the 'brand' and generates a lot of negative sentiment.
Nice to hear the comment about it still having inferior steering to a 997. Mostly all you hear about this car is how omgamazeballs it is. But I can't see how it can be more engaging to drive than a Mk1 GT3 or countless other older 911s. I wonder how it compares to a 997 GT3? or also for that matter a 991GT3 if that's what floats your boat. Probably not a how lot different I'm guessing. Add to that all the negative sentiment, the issue that you can't buy one or drive one and that most who own them will never drive them either and I can't see this car being a long term classic in the sense of a 968CS, its just going to be a speculators asset.
The reason Porsche can get away with stuff like this today is due to the brand image created by cars like the 968CS: Hardcore no apologies pure driving machines. That car cost less than the base model...because it was basically the same but with a load of stuff striped out.
But a 911R is unobtainable, will not be driven (and is inferior to a 997 anyway...).
Also, someone else mentioned Singer above. Good point. To have a 911R at the prices they are supposedly now worth over a Singer you either have to be mad or a speculator. So who cares anyway?
But you can't short-sightedly draw from your well of brand image forever. People get fed up with it. Porsche know this imo. Expect something great from Porsche again soon to compensate.
Looking forward to it!
This hurts the 'brand' and generates a lot of negative sentiment.
Nice to hear the comment about it still having inferior steering to a 997. Mostly all you hear about this car is how omgamazeballs it is. But I can't see how it can be more engaging to drive than a Mk1 GT3 or countless other older 911s. I wonder how it compares to a 997 GT3? or also for that matter a 991GT3 if that's what floats your boat. Probably not a how lot different I'm guessing. Add to that all the negative sentiment, the issue that you can't buy one or drive one and that most who own them will never drive them either and I can't see this car being a long term classic in the sense of a 968CS, its just going to be a speculators asset.
The reason Porsche can get away with stuff like this today is due to the brand image created by cars like the 968CS: Hardcore no apologies pure driving machines. That car cost less than the base model...because it was basically the same but with a load of stuff striped out.
But a 911R is unobtainable, will not be driven (and is inferior to a 997 anyway...).
Also, someone else mentioned Singer above. Good point. To have a 911R at the prices they are supposedly now worth over a Singer you either have to be mad or a speculator. So who cares anyway?
But you can't short-sightedly draw from your well of brand image forever. People get fed up with it. Porsche know this imo. Expect something great from Porsche again soon to compensate.
Looking forward to it!
Its sad for us enthusiasts but I have to agree.
All 968s are fairly rare cars contrary to people talking about the rarity of the 968CS in particular, the tiptronic 968 coupe we had one of only about 50 for example in the UK. The CS was born pretty much out of desperation from a company at the time in real trouble.
All 968s are fairly rare cars contrary to people talking about the rarity of the 968CS in particular, the tiptronic 968 coupe we had one of only about 50 for example in the UK. The CS was born pretty much out of desperation from a company at the time in real trouble.
Wayne58 said:
Try buying a Macan right now - they're still on an 18 months waiting list.........
Sorry, but incorrect, I was in Porsche two days before Xmas, said I could have new Macan by March/april. Dealer said that only the gts still has a waiting list. This dealer was not isolated, Portsmouth and reading said the same.
Fair enough. I enquired at Porsche Mayfair about a Macan GTS so maybe they were telling me porkies...Sorry, but incorrect, I was in Porsche two days before Xmas, said I could have new Macan by March/april. Dealer said that only the gts still has a waiting list. This dealer was not isolated, Portsmouth and reading said the same.
Edited by Wayne58 on Tuesday 27th December 19:46
Gary C said:
av185 said:
All this whinging.....just buy a 991 GT3 instead.
Better car imo.....with just the right amount of aero.
Plus you don't have to put up with that hideous houndstooth trim in the R.:
Win win.
But the gt3 is pdk !Better car imo.....with just the right amount of aero.
Plus you don't have to put up with that hideous houndstooth trim in the R.
:Win win.
: I think people tend to forget PH is clearly no longer representative of the 'market' for these cars.....a look at the 991 GT3s for sale shows several high mileage cars (20k miles at an OPC) many of which have been used as a daily on the commute...largely made possible by the flexibility of the PDK S gearbox....clearly this would be very difficult for many with previous gens of GT3s with their heavy bone crunching clutches.
The other point is that no one seems to slag off the 458 more specifically the Speciale for having an 'auto' box, which imo is inferior to the one in the GT3..... incidentally also confirmed by Monkey H and Steve Sutcliffe btw.
So, without going into the much discussed PDK S v 'manuel' debate again.....there is clearly no right and no wrong gearbox for the GT3, and the fact that both will soon be offered can only be a good thing.
The truth is people may say they want hardcore drivers cars but they are already available at much cheaper prices. Nothing is going to beat a Caterham for pure driving thrills. A 911R is a numb, lifeless tub of lard in comparison. Everything from a Caterham upwards is just a matter of degrees of civility. It's simply a question of how much comfort you require or can live without from there. The Lotus Exige is the next stop for those who want to stay warm and dry but are prepared to make sacrifices for levels of communication that are far beyond any Porsche 991. The Cayman or Lotus Evora for the more open minded buyer is the next obvious stop for those who find the Exige too hardcore.
Where Porsche have succeeded is providing the ease of use and luxury that buyers want with the image of the hardcore drivers car. Ferraris are for show offs, Porsches are for real drivers so the story goes. Decades of treacherous handling have set the 911's image as a challenging drivers car in stone, something Porsche continue to milk with the 991 despite finally engineering out most of the quirks. The 911R is a masterfully rekindles the 'not for wimps' image and came along during an unprecedented frenzy for anything with the Porsche badge on it. The real secret of its success, along with the GT3, is that anyone can drive it, you don't even have to learn how to heel and toe. Auto rev matching is totally at odds with the whole concept of the car. Like the Cayman GT4 it's still an easy, luxury sports car with the image of something more hardcore.
As for the Singer, it may be worth a lot of kudos on here but would anyone REALLY want one of those instead? If I wanted an authentic air-cooled 911 experience I would buy an authentic air-cooled 911.
Where Porsche have succeeded is providing the ease of use and luxury that buyers want with the image of the hardcore drivers car. Ferraris are for show offs, Porsches are for real drivers so the story goes. Decades of treacherous handling have set the 911's image as a challenging drivers car in stone, something Porsche continue to milk with the 991 despite finally engineering out most of the quirks. The 911R is a masterfully rekindles the 'not for wimps' image and came along during an unprecedented frenzy for anything with the Porsche badge on it. The real secret of its success, along with the GT3, is that anyone can drive it, you don't even have to learn how to heel and toe. Auto rev matching is totally at odds with the whole concept of the car. Like the Cayman GT4 it's still an easy, luxury sports car with the image of something more hardcore.
As for the Singer, it may be worth a lot of kudos on here but would anyone REALLY want one of those instead? If I wanted an authentic air-cooled 911 experience I would buy an authentic air-cooled 911.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff