- The riddle pf the Toyota GT86- the car for purist drivers.
Discussion
daemon said:
Agreed. However the 370Z comparison (by me at least) it to show that you can buy something an awful lot more powerful in a RWD coupe for the same sort of money. So does that not suggest the pricing is wrong by Toyota and we're being stiffed?
Impossible to say really, without knowing their margins and their intentions. But 19k is entry level Ford Focus pricing, and I would have thought that Ford can probably knock out a Focus for less than Toyota can knock out a GT86? They might have sold a lot more of them at 20k, but would they have made anything?Lefty said:
Quite. There's a certain unpleasant sneering from some gt86 owners who assume that anyone who doesn't own one just doesn't "get" them.
I like to point out to these types that perhaps if they are real enthusiasts they should be driving Caterhams or Elises. It doesn't go down well.
quite a few people own both, the 86 being a more practical type car with enthusiastic handling. For those in the know (too few on ph sadly) the 86 has quite Elise-like handling.I like to point out to these types that perhaps if they are real enthusiasts they should be driving Caterhams or Elises. It doesn't go down well.
Other favourites amongst Lotus owners are the Golf R, FiSt and various Pork. Again, these are practical cars with an element of fun to complement their 'pure' cars.
The 86 is not the definition of a 'pure' driver's car but a compromise. Like a 320D.
Make your own choice depending on preferences and circumstances.
I like listening to people who own several cars, their views are more balanced. For these you need to visit various owner forums, not gg.
SidewaysSi said:
Me (trying to be) smart? Nah, you have the wrong guy there.
Yet you managed to mis-spell Boxster, knowing it had already got a reaction....SidewaysSi said:
Back to the cars, yes I would prefer a GT86 in that scenario. The Box(s)ter has never appealed at all to be honest - it always seemed to lack focus.
You're STILL the only one trying to compare a Boxster to a GT86 and STILL trying to poke a reaction by saying a Boxster lacks focus.Edited by SidewaysSi on Sunday 22 January 15:53
otolith said:
daemon said:
Agreed. However the 370Z comparison (by me at least) it to show that you can buy something an awful lot more powerful in a RWD coupe for the same sort of money. So does that not suggest the pricing is wrong by Toyota and we're being stiffed?
Impossible to say really, without knowing their margins and their intentions. But 19k is entry level Ford Focus pricing, and I would have thought that Ford can probably knock out a Focus for less than Toyota can knock out a GT86? They might have sold a lot more of them at 20k, but would they have made anything?nickfrog said:
They did sell it for £20k. Price very quickly reflected the balance of supply and demand (unsurprisingly). OK it was a few months old with nominal mileage but with 5 year warranty it didn't matter much.
Yes, i was referring to list price of brand new cars. You could have got one under £20K from a broker at one point not even that long ago, so maybe a missed opportunity by Toyota had they set it at £19,995 in the first place.Of course, that assumes that Toyota UK want to sell lots, which i suspect they dont.....
Edited by daemon on Sunday 22 January 16:43
LasseV said:
And damn, you are on fire.
Thank you. 
LasseV said:
Never seen someone take this s
t so seriously 
I'm not taking the "issue" seriously, just bemused at the banal views people have to justify their own situation / prejudices.t so seriously PCP / Lease deal threads and diesel v petrol threads usually gets that too.
daemon said:
You could have got one discounted back to £19,995 from a main dealer, but the list price was something like £23,495 at the time. So they could have sold them at £19,995 if they wanted to.
Would they have sold enough extra of them at that price to make up the difference? And I can buy discounted stuff at the supermarket, doesn't necessarily mean there's a viable business selling at that price all the time - why was the dealer discounting, under those circumstances was it making a profit or mitigating a loss?otolith said:
daemon said:
You could have got one discounted back to £19,995 from a main dealer, but the list price was something like £23,495 at the time. So they could have sold them at £19,995 if they wanted to.
Would they have sold enough extra of them at that price to make up the difference? And I can buy discounted stuff at the supermarket, doesn't necessarily mean there's a viable business selling at that price all the time - why was the dealer discounting, under those circumstances was it making a profit or mitigating a loss?As i said an either / or would have worked - either a sensible list price OR decent manufacturer backed finance deals.
I dont think Toyota UK particularly want to sell them. Its just another unit to them. They may as well sell a Yaris.
When we bought our Scooby new some years ago, the dealer principal was telling us the UK importer had a certain import quota so selling more WRXs or STIs meant selling less of something else.
daemon said:
You're STILL the only one trying to compare a Boxster to a GT86 and STILL trying to poke a reaction by saying a Boxster lacks focus.
Happily the Boxster has absolutely none of the attributes of a Focus. 
Bear in mind that people who criticise Boxster are the same people who failed to buy the "more focused" Zenos whose manufacturer went bust this week. There's no sign those people are flocking to the Alfa showroom to buy a 4C either.
As for GT86, most buyers looking for "a sportscar" want a convertible of one sort or another.
daemon said:
SidewaysSi said:
Me (trying to be) smart? Nah, you have the wrong guy there.
Yet you managed to mis-spell Boxster, knowing it had already got a reaction....SidewaysSi said:
Back to the cars, yes I would prefer a GT86 in that scenario. The Box(s)ter has never appealed at all to be honest - it always seemed to lack focus.
You're STILL the only one trying to compare a Boxster to a GT86 and STILL trying to poke a reaction by saying a Boxster lacks focus.Edited by SidewaysSi on Sunday 22 January 15:53
I think the GT86 is a cracking car for someone who wants something new and a sole car with driver focus to use day in, day out on the road.
It lacks a bit of practicality for me but I can see its appeal.
SidewaysSi said:
Someone is getting rather emotional aboit this while topic aren't they? Why would I be poking a reaction? I have a Cayman after all.
I think the GT86 is a cracking car for someone who wants something new and a sole car with driver focus to use day in, day out on the road.
It lacks a bit of practicality for me but I can see its appeal.
I'm not at all emotional - bemused and finding some of the posts quite funny. I think the GT86 is a cracking car for someone who wants something new and a sole car with driver focus to use day in, day out on the road.
It lacks a bit of practicality for me but I can see its appeal.
So a Porsche owner deliberately mis-spelling Boxster twice wasnt having a poke then was it?
I personally dont think the balance is right with the GT86 for bangs per buck. I've explained that, reviews say that, other prospective purchasers say that, yet we STILL have people going "oh oh its because they're not really car enthusiasts and its because its not german and its because they want a faster car for bragging rights".
Its honestly a shame as far as i am concerned. Had it been more performance skewed or cheaper, i think we'd have had one.
I dont mind its not "perfect". I just dont think the price for the compromises is correct. If other people think otherwise then thats fine.
Edited by daemon on Sunday 22 January 17:25
Edited by daemon on Sunday 22 January 17:27
SidewaysSi said:
Someone is getting rather emotional aboit this while topic aren't they? Why would I be poking a reaction? I have a Cayman after all.
I think the GT86 is a cracking car for someone who wants something new and a sole car with driver focus to use day in, day out on the road.
It lacks a bit of practicality for me but I can see its appeal.
Si, can i take you down a different alley for a thought as i know you're a car handling fan. I think the GT86 is a cracking car for someone who wants something new and a sole car with driver focus to use day in, day out on the road.
It lacks a bit of practicality for me but I can see its appeal.
i believe on the average B road the 86 is more fun than the Cayman!
This is because it's set up is lively and you're truly involved in everything. It's compromised, budget engineering is great on swoopy bends but proves tiresome over uneven surfaces. I've taken an Elise, 86 and a Cayman over a very familiar mountain road. The Elise and Cayman show their true class and pedigree by handling the lumps and bumps easily and with total composure. Fast progress was achieved in an assured manner. The 86 by contrast was unsettled and somewhat overshadowed. This was an alpine pass where full commitment is possible and rewarding to drive flat out, but unfortunately the switchbacks have an uneven surface. Elsewhere, maybe on good English country roads, the 86 is a rewarding hoot and composed while the road is relatively smooth. On the same road the Cayman is too competent.
3 great cars with a different set of compromises that shine at different times.
daemon said:
SidewaysSi said:
Someone is getting rather emotional aboit this while topic aren't they? Why would I be poking a reaction? I have a Cayman after all.
I think the GT86 is a cracking car for someone who wants something new and a sole car with driver focus to use day in, day out on the road.
It lacks a bit of practicality for me but I can see its appeal.
I'm not at all emotional - bemused and finding some of the posts quite funny. I think the GT86 is a cracking car for someone who wants something new and a sole car with driver focus to use day in, day out on the road.
It lacks a bit of practicality for me but I can see its appeal.
So a Porsche owner deliberately mis-spelling Boxster twice wasnt having a poke then was it?
I personally dont think the balance is right with the GT86 for bangs per buck. I've explained that, reviews say that, other prospective purchasers say that, yet we STILL have people going "oh oh its because they're note really car enthusiasts and its because its not german and its because they want a faster car for bragging rights".
Its honestly a shame as far as i am concerned. Had it been more performance skewed or cheaper, i think we'd have had one.
I dont mind its not "perfect". I just dont think the price for the compromises is correct.
As you may or may not realise, people are different and want different things in cars. Personally, I like the GT86. But I don't think much of the Audi R8, Boxster or Focus RS, to name a few.
I am into feel, chassis ability and cornering above all else. Some people prefer to have a fast car and are prepared to compromise those qualities for speed. If I can't have both, I tend to lean towards the more dynamically accomplished car.
Other people may well be "enthusiasts" but I probably look for different things in my cars, hence I drive what I do.
CABC said:
quite a few people own both, the 86 being a more practical type car with enthusiastic handling. For those in the know (too few on ph sadly) the 86 has quite Elise-like handling.
Other favourites amongst Lotus owners are the Golf R, FiSt and various Pork. Again, these are practical cars with an element of fun to complement their 'pure' cars.
The 86 is not the definition of a 'pure' driver's car but a compromise. Like a 320D.
Make your own choice depending on preferences and circumstances.
I like listening to people who own several cars, their views are more balanced. For these you need to visit various owner forums, not gg.
Its common knowledge that the GT86 has fun handling. Other favourites amongst Lotus owners are the Golf R, FiSt and various Pork. Again, these are practical cars with an element of fun to complement their 'pure' cars.
The 86 is not the definition of a 'pure' driver's car but a compromise. Like a 320D.
Make your own choice depending on preferences and circumstances.
I like listening to people who own several cars, their views are more balanced. For these you need to visit various owner forums, not gg.
SidewaysSi said:
You don't come across as finding posts "funny", more someone who takes things rather too seriously.
Well, thats the power of the internet then isnt it? You're telling me that you're not trying to poke me, and i'm telling you that i finding some of peoples views amusing.SidewaysSi said:
As you may or may not realise, people are different and want different things in cars. Personally, I like the GT86. But I don't think much of the Audi R8, Boxster or Focus RS, to name a few.
Absolutely. Totally agree. I have not said otherwise. I have expressed why the car doesnt work for me personally, other people feel differently. Cool with me. What i have objection to is people intimating that those who dont "get" a GT86 arent real car enthusiasts - even though a lot of those people dont actually own one either
daemon said:
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daemon said:
I think you're more guilty than anyone else on this thread of trying to impose your opinion on everyone else.
You think it's too expensive and you prefer the power of the 370Z, and you don't value (or ignore) the value proposition the GT86 offers. You also ignore that the Nissan has dramatically discounted the 370Z, so dismal are the sales. Fine, but no need to spam the thread.
braddo said:
Blimey.
I think you're more guilty than anyone else on this thread of trying to impose your opinion on everyone else.
No, defending my opinion from people telling me i dont want one because I'm not really a car enthusiast / its not german / it wont give me enough bragging rights I think you're more guilty than anyone else on this thread of trying to impose your opinion on everyone else.
And i'm not the only one with that opinion, though granted, over the last 3 pages (out of 27) the most vocal.
braddo said:
You think it's too expensive and you prefer the power of the 370Z, and you don't value (or ignore) the value proposition the GT86 offers. You also ignore that the Nissan has dramatically discounted the 370Z, so dismal are the sales. Fine, but no need to spam the thread.
No problem then - i'll let it get back to the GT86 fanboys indulging themselves (24 pages and counting when i entered the foray this morning) and trying to convince each other that there arent better cars out there for similar money and such people who dont "get" the GT86 simply arent "purists"Go ahead, lads, knock yourselves out.
Edited by daemon on Sunday 22 January 18:05
daemon said:
SidewaysSi said:
You don't come across as finding posts "funny", more someone who takes things rather too seriously.
Well, thats the power of the internet then isnt it? You're telling me that you're not trying to poke me, and i'm telling you that i finding some of peoples views amusing.SidewaysSi said:
As you may or may not realise, people are different and want different things in cars. Personally, I like the GT86. But I don't think much of the Audi R8, Boxster or Focus RS, to name a few.
Absolutely. Totally agree. I have not said otherwise. I have expressed why the car doesnt work for me personally, other people feel differently. Cool with me. What i have objection to is people intimating that those who dont "get" a GT86 arent real car enthusiasts - even though a lot of those people dont actually own one either
Why are you so protective of the Porsche? It was merely in reference to a post a few pages back where they were driving the Boxster with a GT86. For me and for what I look for in a car, the Boxster is sorely lacking focus. It is a fine car but not my sort of thing at all. But as I said, personal preferences and all that.
I don't recall anyone saying people who don't like it aren't "car enthusiasts". There are different sorts of enthusiast - I would have more in common with someone who is into handling (GT86, Elise, 105 etc) than someone who likes the point and squirt ability of a Golf R or something similar.
I must admit I don't view those who just love modern speed as understanding what I look for in a car, but that's just me and my opinion.
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