- The riddle pf the Toyota GT86- the car for purist drivers.

- The riddle pf the Toyota GT86- the car for purist drivers.

Author
Discussion

Alex

9,975 posts

284 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
Flibble said:
You missed the bit where the 370Z is 200 kg heavier, thus even more comprised for handling, fuel, consumables, etc.
And a strict 2-seater.

JB!

5,254 posts

180 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
Another view on the twins:

http://www.speedhunters.com/2017/01/86-brz-five-ye...

Also I'd love a shooting brake one should they decide to build them 2nd gen.

TameRacingDriver

18,091 posts

272 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Flibble said:
You missed the bit where the 370Z is 200 kg heavier, thus even more comprised for handling, fuel, consumables, etc.
More like 300kg heavier if I remember right

CABC

5,577 posts

101 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
comparing a 3x0Z to an 86 is non sensical from a petrolhead viewpoint imo.
Some people will because they're 2 seaters blah blah.
I like the zed too btw.

Pommygranite

14,257 posts

216 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
CABC said:
comparing a 3x0Z to an 86 is non sensical from a petrolhead viewpoint imo.
Some people will because they're 2 seaters blah blah.
I like the zed too btw.
But it's not - I wanted a RWD 2 door coupe at the price range they are - they were both on my radar - what am I missing?

CABC

5,577 posts

101 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Pommygranite said:
But it's not - I wanted a RWD 2 door coupe at the price range they are - they were both on my radar - what am I missing?
completely different drives, complementary in some respects.
one is about driving and handling finesse, the other has a very powerful, characterful engine. They're opposites in terms of handling & power.
(and no, you can't just put a zed 6 in the 86 without changing the handling.)
i do repeat that they're both worthy cars. Maybe i'm different in that in choosing a car "2 dr coupe" is never a primary search term. "rwd", yes ;-)
I would be choosing by a different criteria, eg track, daily, touring, family, w/end solo driving etc.


Flibble

6,475 posts

181 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
TameRacingDriver said:
Flibble said:
You missed the bit where the 370Z is 200 kg heavier, thus even more comprised for handling, fuel, consumables, etc.
More like 300kg heavier if I remember right
I thought so too, but published specs say otherwise...

GT86: 1247kg with MT.
370Z: 1466kg "base" weight.

kambites

67,575 posts

221 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Pommygranite said:
But it's not - I wanted a RWD 2 door coupe at the price range they are - they were both on my radar - what am I missing?
They're rather different types of cars; it's a bit like comparing a Mustang GT to an Exige because they both happen to be 2-door coupes of roughly the same price.

Pommygranite

14,257 posts

216 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
kambites said:
Pommygranite said:
But it's not - I wanted a RWD 2 door coupe at the price range they are - they were both on my radar - what am I missing?
They're rather different types of cars; it's a bit like comparing a Mustang GT to an Exige because they both happen to be 2-door coupes of roughly the same price.
But they're not. They're 'marketed' differently but they are the same type.

Not everyone does track days and the vast majority of both owners won't. They'll just drive to work and back.

Both cars have the same body type

Both are not too disimilar in price

Both are made in the same country

Both are front engine RWD with the same glass coverage for accessible everyday vision

Both are available in Manual and Auto

Both have essentially the same equipment levels

Both have nearly exactly the same dimensions - the 370 is 25mm longer,70mm wider, 5mm taller and has a 20mm shorter wheelbase - in fact the 86 and 370z are much nearer each other's dimensions and spec than the MX5 that's being discussed on here.

The only difference between the 370z and the 86 is the engine. That's it. In fact they're nearer to each other than the the M4 is to a BMW 340 and they're from the same family!

kambites

67,575 posts

221 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Pommygranite said:
The only difference between the 370z and the 86 is the engine.
Sorry, I was thinking in terms of how they drive rather than spec sheets. Yes you're right that if viewed purely on paper, they are quite similar.

LasseV

1,754 posts

133 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
kambites said:
Sorry, I was thinking in terms of how they drive rather than spec sheets. Yes you're right that if viewed purely on paper, they are quite similar.
Yup. 370z is a nice car for sure. However, their driving dynamics and character is totally different. When you are pushing GT86 it is just getting better when Z goes other direction. They are surprisingly different kind of cars to drive and own.

Squadrone Rosso

2,754 posts

147 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
I liked the 370z and considered one after my Brera, instead of the 86.

I thought the engine was poor & it felt more of a barge than my V6 Q4 Brera.

Nice looking though and a cracking interior.

I think Chris Harris did a comparison once.

LasseV

1,754 posts

133 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
JB! said:
Another view on the twins:

http://www.speedhunters.com/2017/01/86-brz-five-ye...

Also I'd love a shooting brake one should they decide to build them 2nd gen.
I read quite often articles from Speedhunters and Petrolicious but never in pistonheads. In here articles are like New Q5 Released! -type of things but those two sites does write more often about owning a weekend/hobby car and living with it. For example road trips, new parts, modifying, car culture etc. I highly recommend those sites!

As a discussion board, PH is quite good. There is enough people who are interested about that way of life what owning a classic/sports/gt/track/hobby -car needs. There are all sorts of posters, which is a good thing of course.

McFarnsworth

284 posts

149 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
In a lot of other markets where road tax and such are calculated based on engine size and/or emissions the GT86 and 370Z aren't anywhere near comparable.

I just had a quick look, and over here in Belgium a 370Z costs over 5 times more to register and tax than a GT86.

For reference, a GT86 is around £800 to register, and about £400 in annual tax over here. You do the math for a 370Z eek

No wonder I've never spotted a 370Z in the wild.


underphil

1,246 posts

210 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Flibble said:
I thought so too, but published specs say otherwise...

GT86: 1247kg with MT.
370Z: 1466kg "base" weight.
275KG using measured weights

daemon

35,826 posts

197 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
CABC said:
Pommygranite said:
But it's not - I wanted a RWD 2 door coupe at the price range they are - they were both on my radar - what am I missing?
completely different drives, complementary in some respects.
one is about driving and handling finesse, the other has a very powerful, characterful engine. They're opposites in terms of handling & power.
(and no, you can't just put a zed 6 in the 86 without changing the handling.)
i do repeat that they're both worthy cars. Maybe i'm different in that in choosing a car "2 dr coupe" is never a primary search term. "rwd", yes ;-)
I would be choosing by a different criteria, eg track, daily, touring, family, w/end solo driving etc.
A Golf R, Focus RS and a M140i are completely different drives, doesnt mean they arent all on peoples radar if they are looking a fast hatchback.

They may subsequently have a preference as to the drive of the car, but 98% of people look for a particular "type" of car in the first instance, then characteristics within that.


kambites

67,575 posts

221 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
I'm sure some people will consider both, but I suspect more will not.

If anything I'd say more potential buyers would compare the GT86 to the TT than to the 370Z.

daemon

35,826 posts

197 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
LasseV said:
kambites said:
Sorry, I was thinking in terms of how they drive rather than spec sheets. Yes you're right that if viewed purely on paper, they are quite similar.
Yup. 370z is a nice car for sure. However, their driving dynamics and character is totally different. When you are pushing GT86 it is just getting better when Z goes other direction. They are surprisingly different kind of cars to drive and own.
Yes, once you get past 8/10ths of the outright limit in a 370Z it will get raggedy, for want of a better phrase.

But at 8/10ths you'll be making rapid progress already

Conscript

1,378 posts

121 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Sorry to go off the current discussion, but going back to modifications, I thought this video might be of interest to some here who were talking about remaps and tuning.

I am broadly speaking happy with the overall power output of the car, but now I've had it for a few years, would like to do some subtle mods to even out the dip in the torque curve a little and improve the character of the engine a bit, which I agree can be a little lacking. So I'm investigating perhaps a new header and a remap. A new exhaust might come later, but I'm loathe to increase volume, I'd just like a nicer sound, which I gather a header would help with anyway.

I'm not a subscriber to Everyday Driver, but they have done some interesting videos on their long term FRS, and in this one they compare their own (which has a header, exhaust and remap) against a supercharged one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bhnMYvn5S4

daemon

35,826 posts

197 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
LasseV said:
kambites said:
Sorry, I was thinking in terms of how they drive rather than spec sheets. Yes you're right that if viewed purely on paper, they are quite similar.
Yup. 370z is a nice car for sure. However, their driving dynamics and character is totally different. When you are pushing GT86 it is just getting better when Z goes other direction. They are surprisingly different kind of cars to drive and own.
Its not all about lap times, i know, but it seems that the 370Z laps the Nurburgring in around 8:11

http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discuss...

And the GT86, around 8:50

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11...