RE: Preuninger: Porsche is not a hedge fund

[sidesauce]

TooMany2cvs said:

sidesauce said:

We'll have to agree to disagree - I see no 'constructive' criticism on here, I just see whining and moaning.

Yes, Porsche can do what they like and choose to sell/make as much or as little as they like of any particular product as the people who are pissed off with them do not make up the majority of their customer base. They're not doing the 'bare minimum' by their customers at all. They are limiting production of a few models of a car that isn't the most popular nor would it ever be given its function and potential market size.

Except one of their lead spokesmen then goes on record to say that they are not happy with the obvious corollary of that limitation. As you say, if the limitation was NOT there, the production numbers would probably not change much.

People who buy 911Rs are probably not buying them because they want a 911R, but because they want an investment that looks pretty. Take that investment return away, those build slots will be available to those who WANT a 911R... Which may, actually, be fewer people than want them as a pretty investment...

sidesauce said:

And finally, I agree with you - this issue of over-demand and lack of supply regarding this particular model IS a first world issue but not one that Porsche has any problem with, neither does the vast majority of their customer base.

And yet the man from Porsche says "he" DOES have a problem with it... Just not, apparently, enough of a problem to do anything about.

AP doesn't have a seat on the board at Porsche - he can say what he likes but he doesn't have any say in the production numbers of any car he helped develop. He is an engineer, not an executive.

[Mario149]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Late back to this thread, but what cmoose said^^

[Mario149]

Carl_Manchester said:

Hear hear Mario.

Thanks

[Mario149]

sidesauce said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Actually, the point is nothing hinges in 2017 on ANY 996/986 car. Porsche as a company, as I said before, no longer focusses on sports cars, it focusses on SUVs as that is where the majority of its money is made in the 21st Century. We are no longer living in the 20th Century. No-one cares for 'shoulda/woulda/coulda' - maybe the company might have gone bust, maybe not. We'll never know (and it simply doesn't matter) - to say it's a certainty is silly as it didn't happen.

Again, AP is NOT in charge of production numbers of any car he and his team oversee and develop; he doesn't have a seat on the Porsche board therefore it matters not how outspoken he is, other people have the final say. What is so hard for people to understand about this?

It depends on how you look at it. IMO *everything* in 2017 hinges on the 9x6 cars, as Porsche wouldn't be in its 2017 form (if existing at all) without them. It's a bit like saying that the make up and politics of modern Europe is in no way due to WW2 happening.

I can't be 100% sure, but I am pretty confident someone from Porsche is on record in an interview in the last few years as saying that the great thing about Cayennes etc is that it allows them to keep producing great sports cars. That sounds an awful lot like they're still at heart a sportscar manufacturer even if SUVs etc are easy money for them. They have to make class leading sportscars to maintain their brand. Ironically though, I'd say there's even an argument that, in extremis, ditching their sportscars would be more terminal to the company longterm than ditching their "regular" cars. They've already proved they can survive without selling the regular models, but how much caché would they still have if you could only buy a Panamera or Cayenne from them.

Edited for misleading spelling

Edited by Mario149 on Wednesday 8th March 22:08

[Davey S2]

rkwfxd said:

I want(ed) a 911R because I want(ed) a 911R. I think it is the perfect Porsche. Had I been able to purchase one I would have used it exactly like my current car. Not as a DD but as a fun weekend toy in the local mountains and for C&C, AX and track days. Exactly like it was intended.

With rumors of a GT4RS running rampant I have repeatedly spoken with my SA and he has repeatedly assured me that I will be able to get an allocation IF this car is produced. He has also "warned" me that IF the GT4RS is produced they will most likely sell for over MSRP and that any miles I put on it will really kill re-sale. Don't care. IF it is produced and IF it is not too much over MSRP I will get one and use it as intended and enjoy it.

Surely the new GT3 with manual 'box would be the perfect choice for you then?

[Mario149]

Davey S2 said:

rkwfxd said:

I want(ed) a 911R because I want(ed) a 911R. I think it is the perfect Porsche. Had I been able to purchase one I would have used it exactly like my current car. Not as a DD but as a fun weekend toy in the local mountains and for C&C, AX and track days. Exactly like it was intended.

With rumors of a GT4RS running rampant I have repeatedly spoken with my SA and he has repeatedly assured me that I will be able to get an allocation IF this car is produced. He has also "warned" me that IF the GT4RS is produced they will most likely sell for over MSRP and that any miles I put on it will really kill re-sale. Don't care. IF it is produced and IF it is not too much over MSRP I will get one and use it as intended and enjoy it.

Surely the new GT3 with manual 'box would be the perfect choice for you then?

Assuming you can buy one! I've speaking to OPCs half of today about a GT3 order, to be fair, at least they have the courtesy not to laugh out loud when I ask. Although some reject you noticeably better than others. Have to say it's quite an odd experience when some treat you as a chancer/speculator when you say you're only interested in ordering NAsp cars available with a manual gearbox from them so you can take them on track....bizarre world we live in

[sidesauce]

Mario149 said:

It depends on how you look at it. IMO *everything* in 2017 hinges on the 9x6 cars, as Porsche wouldn't be in its 2017 form (if existing at all) without them. It's a bit like saying that the make up and politics of modern Europe is in no way due to WW2 happening.

I can't be 100% sure, but I am pretty confident someone from Porsche is on record in an interview in the last few years as saying that the great thing about Cayennes etc is that it allows them to keep producing great sports cars. That sounds an awful lot like they're still at heart a sportscar manufacturer even if SUVs etc are easy money for them. They have to make class leading sportscars to maintain their brand. Ironically though, I'd say there's even an argument that, in extremis, ditching their sportscars would be more terminal to the company longterm than ditching their "regular" cars. They've already proved they can survive without selling the regular models, but how much caché would they still have if you could only buy a Panamera or Cayenne from them.

Edited for misleading spelling

Edited by Mario149 on Wednesday 8th March 22:08

On that point (regarding perspective) I agree - however, I don't think the comparison with WW2 is apt. A more apt comparison would be Apple - originally they were a personal computing company but now they're a specialist in the 'prosumer' market. The exact same thing has been said in various Apple forums regarding Apples abandonment of their core consumer base (i.e. the 'pro' Mac users) in favour of iPhones and iPads but the bottom line is, they make more money from those devices than they do from personal computers (iMac, Mac Pro) hence them concentrating on what makes them money. This is what has made them the most valued company on the planet, giving attention to what sells (and regardless of any of our opinions, ALL good businesses are meant to run at a profit) and not giving attention to what makes them less money (the people who bought the personal computers in Apples case). And you're wrong regarding SUV's being 'easy money' for them - Porsche's SUV's still have to be developed - platforms, electrical systems, haptic surfaces, interiors, engine development etc - you think all of that means that making money for them is 'easy'? Please. Give me a break!

Finally I don't care what 'someone from Porsche' says, follow the money and that will ALWAYS show the real intent of any of these corporations...

[Mario149]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

To clarify ref SUVs above and sidesauce's comment, when I said easy, I didn't mean in a technical sense (necessarily). What I meant was that the market for premium SUVs appears to be much larger than that for premium sportscars. In a nutshell, it's a lot easier to flog a Cayenne than it is a 911

[RuntyMuz]

Sure, I believe him.

Here one in Australia for $1.12M AUD...

https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Porsche...

I think most hedge funds Wish they were Porsche!