RE: Preuninger: Porsche is not a hedge fund
Discussion
Ugly with those comic rear arches imo and daft centre petrol filler is hassle
£350k as well, I don't get the Singer hype.
And as there is not one in the UK still, I guess not many others do either, so when push comes to shove would people really buy one !
get a nice rennsport remake for £80k and a 991 RS for the same money ! even with overs ! and still have change :-)
or just buy a real 911S
£350k as well, I don't get the Singer hype.
And as there is not one in the UK still, I guess not many others do either, so when push comes to shove would people really buy one !
get a nice rennsport remake for £80k and a 991 RS for the same money ! even with overs ! and still have change :-)
or just buy a real 911S
Personally I do not understand their logic.
Wouldn't it be better to announce the build in the press, have a window to take substantial deposits and build the volume of cars required? This would keep prices on a level, satisfy genuine customers who want the car to drive and appreciate it and stop flipping. Does it really matter if they make 50 or 5000? I think not, what I think matters is making epic cars and keeping faithful customers happy and engaged with the brand.
I bought a 991 GT3 and paid over list, it wasn't extortionate but nether less I lined someones pocket.
Prior to the announcement of the 991 GT3 RS I emailed every single official Porsche centre in the UK. I was told a mixture of responses from we have already taken deposits, to we have no idea how many we will receive and but we can keep your details on file etc. Unfortunately I did not mange to secure one.
Being seduced by many online articles and videos about the RS the want grew but I just not justify the flipped prices. Out the blue I was taken poorly with cancer, fortunately I recovered and thought you never know whats around the corner and after hard negotiations sourced a paint to sample RS loaded with options at a silly but given market sensible price. Mine is not a garage queen, I am not concerned about adding mileage or taking it on a track, these cars were not built to be laid up. Having taken poorly out the blue had my recovery gone the other way I wouldn't of been lying on my death bed saying thank god I kept the mileage down on my car.
I also enquired about the R, my local dealer was very blunt and told me unless you have been a long term customer of the dealership, buying yourself a new Panamera or Cayenne each year, your wife a Macan or similar and your kids a Boxter etc you are unlikely to get on the list. What utter nonsense this is, I drive a Range Rover as its ten times the car a Cayenne is, my wife drives a utility vehicle that gets battered by 3 kids and all the junk we carry around, my kids cant drive so I guess I am excluded from any future generation high performance models based on the above.
I am a massive fan of the brand, sadly I am not a massive fan of their allocation policy and genuinely believe in supply and demand / happy customers.
What did rattle my cage was my local OPC had an unregistered 991 RS in the showroom, it then vanished, several months later in reappeared registered at a highly inflated price and then sold. I later found out via a member of their staff it belonged to the owner of principal dealer??? #dirty
Wouldn't it be better to announce the build in the press, have a window to take substantial deposits and build the volume of cars required? This would keep prices on a level, satisfy genuine customers who want the car to drive and appreciate it and stop flipping. Does it really matter if they make 50 or 5000? I think not, what I think matters is making epic cars and keeping faithful customers happy and engaged with the brand.
I bought a 991 GT3 and paid over list, it wasn't extortionate but nether less I lined someones pocket.
Prior to the announcement of the 991 GT3 RS I emailed every single official Porsche centre in the UK. I was told a mixture of responses from we have already taken deposits, to we have no idea how many we will receive and but we can keep your details on file etc. Unfortunately I did not mange to secure one.
Being seduced by many online articles and videos about the RS the want grew but I just not justify the flipped prices. Out the blue I was taken poorly with cancer, fortunately I recovered and thought you never know whats around the corner and after hard negotiations sourced a paint to sample RS loaded with options at a silly but given market sensible price. Mine is not a garage queen, I am not concerned about adding mileage or taking it on a track, these cars were not built to be laid up. Having taken poorly out the blue had my recovery gone the other way I wouldn't of been lying on my death bed saying thank god I kept the mileage down on my car.
I also enquired about the R, my local dealer was very blunt and told me unless you have been a long term customer of the dealership, buying yourself a new Panamera or Cayenne each year, your wife a Macan or similar and your kids a Boxter etc you are unlikely to get on the list. What utter nonsense this is, I drive a Range Rover as its ten times the car a Cayenne is, my wife drives a utility vehicle that gets battered by 3 kids and all the junk we carry around, my kids cant drive so I guess I am excluded from any future generation high performance models based on the above.
I am a massive fan of the brand, sadly I am not a massive fan of their allocation policy and genuinely believe in supply and demand / happy customers.
What did rattle my cage was my local OPC had an unregistered 991 RS in the showroom, it then vanished, several months later in reappeared registered at a highly inflated price and then sold. I later found out via a member of their staff it belonged to the owner of principal dealer??? #dirty
Porsche911R said:
Ugly with those comic rear arches imo and daft centre petrol filler is hassle
£350k as well, I don't get the Singer hype.
And as there is not one in the UK still, I guess not many others do either, so when push comes to shove would people really buy one !
get a nice rennsport remake for £80k and a 991 RS for the same money ! even with overs ! and still have change :-)
or just buy a real 911S
Says the man with a pic of a lime green chavved up Cayman in his profile £350k as well, I don't get the Singer hype.
And as there is not one in the UK still, I guess not many others do either, so when push comes to shove would people really buy one !
get a nice rennsport remake for £80k and a 991 RS for the same money ! even with overs ! and still have change :-)
or just buy a real 911S
The car in the pic is a UK car. There are 4 or 5 in the UK now. And you don't have to have the central filler if you don't want.
With import duty they are a lot admittedly but if some of the prices for 'used' 911R's are correct that would more than cover it. Far more special car as far as I'm concerned but I'm just day dreaming.
On a more modest budget an Autofarm or Paul Stevens 911 would do quite nicely as well.
Does anyone know how many of these “limited run” models Porsche actually sell compared to say Turbo Ss (i.e. a car I could walk into a Porsche dealer today and order for a similar (ish) amount of money)?
Are there really that many people out there who have “missed out” on a GT3, R or GT RS? Given how much these cars cost the pool of potential customers must be relatively small in the first place?
How many of these cars do people think Porsche would sell if there was no limit on supply?
jayemm89 said:
I did not realise one could make an entire article from two sentences, both of which are clearly cow droppings.
^^^^ This. Two statements probably taken out of context on an issue which has made a lot of press. PH click-bait at it's finest and everyone fell for it hook, line and sinker!NigelCayless said:
Given how much these cars cost the pool of potential customers must be relatively small in the first place?
How many of these cars do people think Porsche would sell if there was no limit on supply?
I think this is the point though, considering the low volumes of these limited models they produce, they are (relatively speaking) priced pretty sensibly when new, especially given the wider trends of the market. How many of these cars do people think Porsche would sell if there was no limit on supply?
Given that it would appear that they could easily re-sell the entire allocation at the new 'used' market rate, I'd say they could easily shift double, triple the allocation without breaking a sweat.
Roma101 said:
n17ves said:
Davey S2 said:
n17ves said:
marcosgt said:
Then why, Herr Preuninger, do you insist on building limited run specials?
To protect brand exclusivity, exactly the reason why Ferrari decided a few years ago to reduce production numbers! The difference with Porsche is that the he customer base is broad, they are selling 918's to compete with the P1 and La Ferrari, but then they are also selling 718's and Cayennes to compete with Z4's and X5's. This diverse range of cars seems to confuse the market and portray Porsche as a volume brand where supply should always meet demand, which it isn't.Similar story with Aston Martin, the GT8 sold out pretty quick. Furthermore, they are now selling for grossly more than the overs commanded on the GT4, GT3 and GT3 RS! Despite this, you don't see threads complaining about the 2nd hand prices and the 'supposedly' underhand deals made by the dealers. Its seems to be accepted that this is okay for Aston to preserve Brand exclusivity and limit production, but not for Porsche!
I for one am gutted that I wont be able to buy a 991 R at list, but Im more than happy to accept that I wont be seeing a "OMG I've just bought a 991 R..." vlog anytime soon either.
Porsche cant control second have values, but they will try to preserve the brand and sell to the people that aren't just caught up in the overs. Same goes for Aston and any other marque that maybe selling a rare car that's in high demand. I just don't think its fair Porsche get so much stick for it.
Edited by n17ves on Monday 13th February 16:38
n17ves said:
To protect brand exclusivity, exactly the reason why Ferrari decided a few years ago to reduce production numbers! The difference with Porsche is that the he customer base is broad, they are selling 918's to compete with the P1 and La Ferrari, but then they are also selling 718's and Cayennes to compete with Z4's and X5's. This diverse range of cars seems to confuse the market and portray Porsche as a volume brand where supply should always meet demand, which it isn't.
Similar story with Aston Martin, the GT8 sold out pretty quick. Furthermore, they are now selling for grossly more than the overs commanded on the GT4, GT3 and GT3 RS! Despite this, you don't see threads complaining about the 2nd hand prices and the 'supposedly' underhand deals made by the dealers. Its seems to be accepted that this is okay for Aston to preserve Brand exclusivity and limit production, but not for Porsche!
I for one am gutted that I wont be able to buy a 991 R at list, but Im more than happy to accept that I wont be seeing a "OMG I've just bought a 991 R..." vlog anytime soon either.
Fine, but then why bleat about people treating Porsche as a 'hedge fund'...Similar story with Aston Martin, the GT8 sold out pretty quick. Furthermore, they are now selling for grossly more than the overs commanded on the GT4, GT3 and GT3 RS! Despite this, you don't see threads complaining about the 2nd hand prices and the 'supposedly' underhand deals made by the dealers. Its seems to be accepted that this is okay for Aston to preserve Brand exclusivity and limit production, but not for Porsche!
I for one am gutted that I wont be able to buy a 991 R at list, but Im more than happy to accept that I wont be seeing a "OMG I've just bought a 991 R..." vlog anytime soon either.
Seems, as you say, they want to do EXACTLY that, but at the same time pretend they don't... Disingenuous, to be polite...
If they believe they can make a 'better' Porsche then why not make as many as the market want instead of trickling a handful out now and then...?
M.
moose i think the counter argument is that the R, if it was an unlimited run, would not sell in huge amounts anyway due to its specification and cost. The market for £150k two seater manual cars that depreciate normally is not huge and thus it's a moot point arguing about margins and production capacity.
i agree with some of the other posters here, this interview is a load of rubbish and frankly, these types of interviews show how out of touch porsche are.
i agree with some of the other posters here, this interview is a load of rubbish and frankly, these types of interviews show how out of touch porsche are.
Mario149 said:
Ironically it's the other way for me. Had a 997 GT3 but sold it because it was a faff on the road. A 911R would be right up my street and would mean I wouldn't have to run a sportscar for the road and a track car at the same time, much as I love them both.
If you thought the 7.1gt3 was a poor road car, why would you think the R was suddenly a great one?Preuninger is not telling the whole story. Yes, Porsche could produce more cars, but the real issue is that they have created a two-tiered customer base that allows those who purchased the 918 Spyder to have first shot at acquiring all other special editions including the 911R. This has created the "hedge" market by allowing a few privileged customers access to all new special editions and excluding long time Porsche devotees the who would actually drive these new special editions. Shame on them! They are alienating the majority of their customer base to play to their wealthier clients. Even though current Porsche prices make them unaffordable to most, I highly doubt this "exclusive club" within a club was the intent of Dr. Porsche when created the company.
isaldiri said:
Mario149 said:
Ironically it's the other way for me. Had a 997 GT3 but sold it because it was a faff on the road. A 911R would be right up my street and would mean I wouldn't have to run a sportscar for the road and a track car at the same time, much as I love them both.
If you thought the 7.1gt3 was a poor road car, why would you think the R was suddenly a great one?Basically, like a lot of other people I suspect, I'm waiting for the next recession to kill the silly prices. Did well in car terms during the last one (not making money necessarily mind, just getting into fun metal for sensible money) and hope to repeat as a silver lining when everything inevitably goes tits up on the never ending cycle
Mario149 said:
Shorter gearing, more road biased suspension, ride height (although I did have my GT3 raised about 6mm), comfier seats (mine had the Carrera GT buckets) etc.
The 991R has gearing that does maybe 10-12mph less than the 7gt3 depending on gear, it's not that much shorter? Ride height the R is I think the same as the 991gt3 which is even lower than the 7gt3... I grant you the modern iteration of the pasm suspension is much more road friendly but tbh the 991RS (supposedly the track biased car) is remarkably good on the road so it's more a modern development than a particularly road biased one.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff