Why the UK obsession with "German" cars?
Discussion
TL:DR but if you want a big engined RWD car you go German. No-one else supplies this market to such an extent - 130d/i, 530/535/540d/i etc. Most of the European offerings are FWD only and the Japanese long abandoned this sector by not offering d versions of their luxury cars. Even their large 3.0 litre engines were rather anemic
Blame my uncle! He used to harp on about how Japanese cars were reliable but not comfortable. That zee Germans had nailed both reliability and comfort. With views like that from uncles trying to brainwash others... and my cousins believed it! When we met a family reunion they went on and on about VAG cars.
Edited by Super_G on Sunday 19th February 11:02
Who else is doing small, powerful convertibles / roadsters? (TT, Boxster, M, CLK (or whatever the new numbering system is))
MX-5, 124? Anaemic
F-Type? Very expensive
Mustang? Big, thirsty - expensive to run, unsafe (relatively)
Lotus - brilliant, but pretty impractical / expensive, not really a convertible
Anyone else?
MX-5, 124? Anaemic
F-Type? Very expensive
Mustang? Big, thirsty - expensive to run, unsafe (relatively)
Lotus - brilliant, but pretty impractical / expensive, not really a convertible
Anyone else?
Well reading this thread has been an education.
I always thought people bought BMWs and Mercs because they have larger, more powerful engines, and rear-wheel drive, things which Fords and Vauxhalls simply don't have across the range. That's the simple reason I've always bought German.
If I want a 3.0l rear-wheel drive hatchback or estate, I can't shop at Ford or Vauxhall, I'll be going down the road to BMW or Mercedes who have such things across the range.
I always thought people bought BMWs and Mercs because they have larger, more powerful engines, and rear-wheel drive, things which Fords and Vauxhalls simply don't have across the range. That's the simple reason I've always bought German.
If I want a 3.0l rear-wheel drive hatchback or estate, I can't shop at Ford or Vauxhall, I'll be going down the road to BMW or Mercedes who have such things across the range.
Edited by Tim bo on Sunday 19th February 09:15
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Unlucky! I'll give you that one. The 2.0 GTI is widely regarded as THE worst 'GTI' VW ever made 
I would put money on the starter motor being a pattern one fitted by a previous owner. Was it making a high pitched whine after the engine fired up? I've seen so many pattern starters that have defective centrifugal mechanisms that don't let go quick enough after start, hence the noise.
Common for seldom used rear door locks to seize up. Seen that on a few cars, not just VWs/Germans. Rear wash wipe, yeah had that one on mine. Fairly simple fix.
Overall not seeing anything horrendously wrong there to be honest, minor niggles and cheap to fix if you know your way around a Golf.
The Corrado, well, yeah they're old and yep, I had the heater cable thing on mine too, but again, a simple fix. The Sunroof is a one time fix by using the more reliable Golf mechanism/subframe instead, but you need to be 'in the know' to know that unfortunately, otherwise dealers charge you a £1000 to put a new known crap one back in. Interesting. My E30s felt considerably older and more tired than my Corrado, but my old 525i on the other hand, absolute tank!
The MK4 had a decent interior (better than the MK5's) - providing previous owners hadn't messed with it fitting stereos and speakers, snapping clips, not replacing them, things then creak and rattle and give the next owner a bad impression of the car. In fact, previous bodgers are indeed what give a car a bad name for people new to the model / marque.
Yeah Subarus are a very utilitarian, but more fragile mechanically than German cars I found, especially when tuned. The mechanical limits are far easier to find.
So why would it already have a replacement pattern part starter motor if it was so reliable? I would put money on the starter motor being a pattern one fitted by a previous owner. Was it making a high pitched whine after the engine fired up? I've seen so many pattern starters that have defective centrifugal mechanisms that don't let go quick enough after start, hence the noise.Common for seldom used rear door locks to seize up. Seen that on a few cars, not just VWs/Germans. Rear wash wipe, yeah had that one on mine. Fairly simple fix.
Overall not seeing anything horrendously wrong there to be honest, minor niggles and cheap to fix if you know your way around a Golf.
The Corrado, well, yeah they're old and yep, I had the heater cable thing on mine too, but again, a simple fix. The Sunroof is a one time fix by using the more reliable Golf mechanism/subframe instead, but you need to be 'in the know' to know that unfortunately, otherwise dealers charge you a £1000 to put a new known crap one back in. Interesting. My E30s felt considerably older and more tired than my Corrado, but my old 525i on the other hand, absolute tank!
The MK4 had a decent interior (better than the MK5's) - providing previous owners hadn't messed with it fitting stereos and speakers, snapping clips, not replacing them, things then creak and rattle and give the next owner a bad impression of the car. In fact, previous bodgers are indeed what give a car a bad name for people new to the model / marque.
Yeah Subarus are a very utilitarian, but more fragile mechanically than German cars I found, especially when tuned. The mechanical limits are far easier to find.
We get you love your VW's, but theres no need to defend them so passive aggressively
darthmarmite said:
In my opinion it's down do the perception of luxury and expense. A significant proportion of the younger generation today (of which at 23 years old, I am one) are obsessed with looks and the way that they appear to others, just look at the huge surge in designer brands, make up and cosmetic surgery. Cars are just another extension of this. So many people nowadays would rather pay more to be seen driving something with a BMW, Audi or Mercedes badge on the front. They don't care that it's bottom spec, has the smallest engine and no fun toys to play with, they have the badge and in their mind that's all that counts, that's what they will be seen with and people will associate it with success and wealth. I've seen people who still live with their parents, pay no rent and can barely afford a thing because they spend way more than they can afford a month on leasing/PCPing one of these luxury cars so that when they are driving about, they have the illusion of success. To these people, it doesn't matter that when they have finished 'cruising' the streets, they will return to their single bed in their parents spare room, that's not where people see them; people see them in their car.
Personally, I'd rather spend less and have a better car, with more power, more toys to play with and is actually no where near as common-place as these 'exclusive' and 'luxury' vehicles have become.
Tell me which Ford/Vauxhall/PSA etc.. the guy looking at a 330d should get? Which car do the others offer that does 50mpg and 60 in 5.5secs with a RWD chassis? How does spending less get you a better car? What? Get an insignia and pretend it's better than a 3 series? Tell me how that works....Personally, I'd rather spend less and have a better car, with more power, more toys to play with and is actually no where near as common-place as these 'exclusive' and 'luxury' vehicles have become.
Edited by darthmarmite on Saturday 18th February 06:35
What are these toys you talk about? Should I console myself with a set of LED lights and rear view camera and forget about the underdeveloped FWD chassis and woefully underpowered 4 pot under the bonnet? Very PH view, not.
What should I have bought instead of my M3? A VXR insignia, Mondeo Vignale? So I could drive around and sneer at M3 drivers pretending that they all live with their mums or bed sit? Please.....
If you spent more time worrying about yourself and less time creating strange opinions on others, what they have and why they do, you might get a little further on in life.
Wills2 said:
darthmarmite said:
In my opinion it's down do the perception of luxury and expense. A significant proportion of the younger generation today (of which at 23 years old, I am one) are obsessed with looks and the way that they appear to others, just look at the huge surge in designer brands, make up and cosmetic surgery. Cars are just another extension of this. So many people nowadays would rather pay more to be seen driving something with a BMW, Audi or Mercedes badge on the front. They don't care that it's bottom spec, has the smallest engine and no fun toys to play with, they have the badge and in their mind that's all that counts, that's what they will be seen with and people will associate it with success and wealth. I've seen people who still live with their parents, pay no rent and can barely afford a thing because they spend way more than they can afford a month on leasing/PCPing one of these luxury cars so that when they are driving about, they have the illusion of success. To these people, it doesn't matter that when they have finished 'cruising' the streets, they will return to their single bed in their parents spare room, that's not where people see them; people see them in their car.
Personally, I'd rather spend less and have a better car, with more power, more toys to play with and is actually no where near as common-place as these 'exclusive' and 'luxury' vehicles have become.
Tell me which Ford/Vauxhall/PSA etc.. the guy looking at a 330d should get? Which car do the others offer that does 50mpg and 60 in 5.5secs with a RWD chassis? How does spending less get you a better car? What? Get an insignia and pretend it's better than a 3 series? Tell me how that works....Personally, I'd rather spend less and have a better car, with more power, more toys to play with and is actually no where near as common-place as these 'exclusive' and 'luxury' vehicles have become.
Edited by darthmarmite on Saturday 18th February 06:35
What are these toys you talk about? Should I console myself with a set of LED lights and rear view camera and forget about the underdeveloped FWD chassis and woefully underpowered 4 pot under the bonnet? Very PH view, not.
What should I have bought instead of my M3? A VXR insignia, Mondeo Vignale? So I could drive around and sneer at M3 drivers pretending that they all live with their mums or bed sit? Please.....
If you spent more time worrying about yourself and less time creating strange opinions on others, what they have and why they do, you might get a little further on in life.
So, is there a similar dearth of viable alternatives to a 220d Active Tourer or a 114i or an A180d or a C200d?
TooMany2cvs said:
Wills2 said:
darthmarmite said:
In my opinion it's down do the perception of luxury and expense. A significant proportion of the younger generation today (of which at 23 years old, I am one) are obsessed with looks and the way that they appear to others, just look at the huge surge in designer brands, make up and cosmetic surgery. Cars are just another extension of this. So many people nowadays would rather pay more to be seen driving something with a BMW, Audi or Mercedes badge on the front. They don't care that it's bottom spec, has the smallest engine and no fun toys to play with, they have the badge and in their mind that's all that counts, that's what they will be seen with and people will associate it with success and wealth. I've seen people who still live with their parents, pay no rent and can barely afford a thing because they spend way more than they can afford a month on leasing/PCPing one of these luxury cars so that when they are driving about, they have the illusion of success. To these people, it doesn't matter that when they have finished 'cruising' the streets, they will return to their single bed in their parents spare room, that's not where people see them; people see them in their car.
Personally, I'd rather spend less and have a better car, with more power, more toys to play with and is actually no where near as common-place as these 'exclusive' and 'luxury' vehicles have become.
Tell me which Ford/Vauxhall/PSA etc.. the guy looking at a 330d should get? Which car do the others offer that does 50mpg and 60 in 5.5secs with a RWD chassis? How does spending less get you a better car? What? Get an insignia and pretend it's better than a 3 series? Tell me how that works....Personally, I'd rather spend less and have a better car, with more power, more toys to play with and is actually no where near as common-place as these 'exclusive' and 'luxury' vehicles have become.
Edited by darthmarmite on Saturday 18th February 06:35
What are these toys you talk about? Should I console myself with a set of LED lights and rear view camera and forget about the underdeveloped FWD chassis and woefully underpowered 4 pot under the bonnet? Very PH view, not.
What should I have bought instead of my M3? A VXR insignia, Mondeo Vignale? So I could drive around and sneer at M3 drivers pretending that they all live with their mums or bed sit? Please.....
If you spent more time worrying about yourself and less time creating strange opinions on others, what they have and why they do, you might get a little further on in life.
So, is there a similar dearth of viable alternatives to a 220d Active Tourer or a 114i or an A180d or a C200d?
In the case of an Audi A3/4, or one of the nasty new FWD Mercs I'm pretty sure it's 90% about the badge.
I've recently bought two German cars, after 14 years of Japanese reliability, with just one Swedish aberration that will never be repeated. Before that, it was mostly French/British with a couple of German, Italian, Japanese types mixed in. The fact that these two are German is just a consequence of what we were looking for at the time.
One's a 30-year-old RWD 2+2 bought because I had a poster of it on my bedroom when I was a kid and I'd always wanted one. The other is a 5-y-o hot hatch variety of which Mrs PB said she'd always wanted since she had learned to drive. Why she never told me that 20 years ago, we don't really know. I'd have bought the Mk2 version at the time...
Main family car is still Japanese though - need to keep a level-head somewhere
One's a 30-year-old RWD 2+2 bought because I had a poster of it on my bedroom when I was a kid and I'd always wanted one. The other is a 5-y-o hot hatch variety of which Mrs PB said she'd always wanted since she had learned to drive. Why she never told me that 20 years ago, we don't really know. I'd have bought the Mk2 version at the time...
Main family car is still Japanese though - need to keep a level-head somewhere
The Germans used to go the extra mile to build lasting quality into their cars, but as usual the bean counters who are obsessed with every 0.00000% worth of a penny get their way, so let's say a quality hose clip that used to cost 5p per million back in the day v's a shoddy quality clip that costs 1p per million today as long as said clip does its job that's what gets fitted even though there is a chance it might fail sooner, multiply that times everything that makes up a car.
Reliability v's profit margin I wonder what is more important to the car makers.
Off topic for a second...notice how three door cars are now disappearing, bean counters at it again.
Reliability v's profit margin I wonder what is more important to the car makers.
Off topic for a second...notice how three door cars are now disappearing, bean counters at it again.
Edited by Klippie on Sunday 19th February 12:05
TooMany2cvs said:
dme123 said:
When BMW/Mercedes only made good cars with a real USP...
When was that?They've always made underpowered chod like 316s, C180s and the like, even back in the day when RWD was far from being a USP.
Sure, I'd have liked more power, but I can quite understand someone wanting one because everything else about the car was the same as a larger engine model.Audemars said:
darthmarmite said:
In my opinion it's down do the perception of luxury and expense. A significant proportion of the younger generation today (of which at 23 years old, I am one) are obsessed with looks and the way that they appear to others, just look at the huge surge in designer brands, make up and cosmetic surgery. Cars are just another extension of this. So many people nowadays would rather pay more to be seen driving something with a BMW, Audi or Mercedes badge on the front. They don't care that it's bottom spec, has the smallest engine and no fun toys to play with, they have the badge and in their mind that's all that counts, that's what they will be seen with and people will associate it with success and wealth. I've seen people who still live with their parents, pay no rent and can barely afford a thing because they spend way more than they can afford a month on leasing/PCPing one of these luxury cars so that when they are driving about, they have the illusion of success. To these people, it doesn't matter that when they have finished 'cruising' the streets, they will return to their single bed in their parents spare room, that's not where people see them; people see them in their car.
100% agree. This phenomenon is not limited to kids though. Its the same for most that finance new cars including the apparent adults on here.Edited by darthmarmite on Saturday 18th February 06:35
The 3 cars in our household collectively cost <10k, none have a premium badge but they are all what we can realistically afford. Looking back, the most I spent on cars was in my mid-late 20's when I first had some proper money of my own. Back then there would have been a certain element of showing off about it so I think it is a funtion of age. Now (mid 30s), priorities have changed and I genuinely couldn't care less what anyone thinks. Most likely next big car will be a previous gen Mondeo as I want something fun-ish, we might get an UP! (or similar) as a runabout and keep the MX-5.
Willy Nilly said:
EazyDuz said:
Not any bigger than a lot of BMW's. Not expensive to run, road tax on a 17 plate is cheap after first year, fuel economy 25-32 if you drive slow, doesnt need servicing often, a 2 star NCAP is safe enough.
What is the point in buying a sports car and driving it slowly? Willy Nilly said:
EazyDuz said:
Not any bigger than a lot of BMW's. Not expensive to run, road tax on a 17 plate is cheap after first year, fuel economy 25-32 if you drive slow, doesnt need servicing often, a 2 star NCAP is safe enough.
What is the point in buying a sports car and driving it slowly? WonkeyDonkey said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Unlucky! I'll give you that one. The 2.0 GTI is widely regarded as THE worst 'GTI' VW ever made I would put money on the starter motor being a pattern one fitted by a previous owner. Was it making a high pitched whine after the engine fired up? I've seen so many pattern starters that have defective centrifugal mechanisms that don't let go quick enough after start, hence the noise.
Common for seldom used rear door locks to seize up. Seen that on a few cars, not just VWs/Germans. Rear wash wipe, yeah had that one on mine. Fairly simple fix.
Overall not seeing anything horrendously wrong there to be honest, minor niggles and cheap to fix if you know your way around a Golf.
The Corrado, well, yeah they're old and yep, I had the heater cable thing on mine too, but again, a simple fix. The Sunroof is a one time fix by using the more reliable Golf mechanism/subframe instead, but you need to be 'in the know' to know that unfortunately, otherwise dealers charge you a £1000 to put a new known crap one back in. Interesting. My E30s felt considerably older and more tired than my Corrado, but my old 525i on the other hand, absolute tank!
The MK4 had a decent interior (better than the MK5's) - providing previous owners hadn't messed with it fitting stereos and speakers, snapping clips, not replacing them, things then creak and rattle and give the next owner a bad impression of the car. In fact, previous bodgers are indeed what give a car a bad name for people new to the model / marque.
Yeah Subarus are a very utilitarian, but more fragile mechanically than German cars I found, especially when tuned. The mechanical limits are far easier to find.
So why would it already have a replacement pattern part starter motor if it was so reliable? I would put money on the starter motor being a pattern one fitted by a previous owner. Was it making a high pitched whine after the engine fired up? I've seen so many pattern starters that have defective centrifugal mechanisms that don't let go quick enough after start, hence the noise.Common for seldom used rear door locks to seize up. Seen that on a few cars, not just VWs/Germans. Rear wash wipe, yeah had that one on mine. Fairly simple fix.
Overall not seeing anything horrendously wrong there to be honest, minor niggles and cheap to fix if you know your way around a Golf.
The Corrado, well, yeah they're old and yep, I had the heater cable thing on mine too, but again, a simple fix. The Sunroof is a one time fix by using the more reliable Golf mechanism/subframe instead, but you need to be 'in the know' to know that unfortunately, otherwise dealers charge you a £1000 to put a new known crap one back in. Interesting. My E30s felt considerably older and more tired than my Corrado, but my old 525i on the other hand, absolute tank!
The MK4 had a decent interior (better than the MK5's) - providing previous owners hadn't messed with it fitting stereos and speakers, snapping clips, not replacing them, things then creak and rattle and give the next owner a bad impression of the car. In fact, previous bodgers are indeed what give a car a bad name for people new to the model / marque.
Yeah Subarus are a very utilitarian, but more fragile mechanically than German cars I found, especially when tuned. The mechanical limits are far easier to find.
We get you love your VW's, but theres no need to defend them so passive aggressively
There was no need for your empty contribution, or the arm chair pysch evaluation either, was there? He didn't provide any context initially, he then provided some, and we got talking. It seems you are the only person who picked up any so called "Passive aggressive" behaviour, but here's some aggression for you though - keep your f'cking assumptions about me to yourself.
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