RE: Is the Alfa Romeo Giulia good enough? PH Blog
Discussion
Oilchange said:
You know it's getting quite tiresome that people keep harping on about Alfas alleged reliability problems, mine' a 98 car on 126000 and going just fine, more than can be said about the poor fellows Passat in the other thread. Or the VW caddy in the other thread, or a clleague at work whose BMW grenaded its engine.
Ah, but it is an Alfa so we come to expect this.
They are no worse than the rest, maybe not as good at covering it up.
ETA, it may explain why my car gets so much attention, they simply can't believe a 19 year old Alfa could survive. Although I kid myself it's the looks, the noise etc
156's suffered from occasional iffy electrics, crap dealers and the big one was the 72'000 cam belt change interval (it was actually 36'000 but.....) and the lack of an oil level light. Lots of them ran out of oil and destroyed engines. But overall, a solidly built car that repays decent maintenance. No worse than anything else. They can eat suspension parts, rust underneath (but never on top) and the engine doesn't like a cut price fix after a belt snap and valve/piston contact. Ah, but it is an Alfa so we come to expect this.
They are no worse than the rest, maybe not as good at covering it up.
ETA, it may explain why my car gets so much attention, they simply can't believe a 19 year old Alfa could survive. Although I kid myself it's the looks, the noise etc
Edited by Oilchange on Saturday 25th February 13:29
BMW are apparently recalling the latest N20 engine due to.................timing chain problems. Do they ever learn?
Managed to wangle a brief drive in a QFV today. The car looks far better in the metal than the photographs, it goes well (was limited by time & traffic), and the interior is stunning. I could very easily get to want one.
But, a quick scout round Autotrader shows some cars already being discounted! So may be best to wait a year of two and see where prices go.
But, a quick scout round Autotrader shows some cars already being discounted! So may be best to wait a year of two and see where prices go.
PunterCam said:
In many ways, the fact it's RWD would put me off. FWD has come a long, long way, and I'm sick of being unable to move in even slightly slippy conditions with modern RWD cars.
IME, RWD cars tend to be more tractable than front drivers, amongst many other benefits.I really don't get the "RWD in the wet doesn't work" - a bit of throttle modulation goes a long way.
Unfortunately Alfa are damned if they make something too different that doesn't appeal to anyone but enthusiasts and they are damned if they make something that appears too populist. In order to survive they have to make the Guilia appeal to as many A4/3 series buyers as possible.
My initial thoughts are the front looks distinctive but the sides and rear look a little generic. I haven't seen one in the flesh yet so it's hard to say what my overall impressions on its looks will be. Anything that offers some relief from the ubiquity and monotony of the usual German stuff, on my part is welcomed. Weekly the Germans are launching something new with more bells and whistles and more perceived technical innovation, I have long since stopped bothering and when I look inside a new car have little idea what all the button actually do.
As for German reliability, my previous German cars have been no better and in some cases not as reliable as the several Alfa's I've owned, I suppose nowadays many people have little involvement in understanding how their car works, don't fix it themselves or have little mechanical sympathy, in these cases an Alfa will not be forgiving. Non car enthusiasts are comforted by shiny dealerships with free coffee machines and comfort themselves in believing they drive a 'premium' car. Give me a Busso V6 anyday!
My initial thoughts are the front looks distinctive but the sides and rear look a little generic. I haven't seen one in the flesh yet so it's hard to say what my overall impressions on its looks will be. Anything that offers some relief from the ubiquity and monotony of the usual German stuff, on my part is welcomed. Weekly the Germans are launching something new with more bells and whistles and more perceived technical innovation, I have long since stopped bothering and when I look inside a new car have little idea what all the button actually do.
As for German reliability, my previous German cars have been no better and in some cases not as reliable as the several Alfa's I've owned, I suppose nowadays many people have little involvement in understanding how their car works, don't fix it themselves or have little mechanical sympathy, in these cases an Alfa will not be forgiving. Non car enthusiasts are comforted by shiny dealerships with free coffee machines and comfort themselves in believing they drive a 'premium' car. Give me a Busso V6 anyday!
Arese1973 said:
Unfortunately Alfa are damned if they make something too different that doesn't appeal to anyone but enthusiasts and they are damned if they make something that appears too populist. In order to survive they have to make the Guilia appeal to as many A4/3 series buyers as possible.
My initial thoughts are the front looks distinctive but the sides and rear look a little generic. I haven't seen one in the flesh yet so it's hard to say what my overall impressions on its looks will be. Anything that offers some relief from the ubiquity and monotony of the usual German stuff, on my part is welcomed. Weekly the Germans are launching something new with more bells and whistles and more perceived technical innovation, I have long since stopped bothering and when I look inside a new car have little idea what all the button actually do.
As for German reliability, my previous German cars have been no better and in some cases not as reliable as the several Alfa's I've owned, I suppose nowadays many people have little involvement in understanding how their car works, don't fix it themselves or have little mechanical sympathy, in these cases an Alfa will not be forgiving. Non car enthusiasts are comforted by shiny dealerships with free coffee machines and comfort themselves in believing they drive a 'premium' car. Give me a Busso V6 anyday!
You are not wrong!My initial thoughts are the front looks distinctive but the sides and rear look a little generic. I haven't seen one in the flesh yet so it's hard to say what my overall impressions on its looks will be. Anything that offers some relief from the ubiquity and monotony of the usual German stuff, on my part is welcomed. Weekly the Germans are launching something new with more bells and whistles and more perceived technical innovation, I have long since stopped bothering and when I look inside a new car have little idea what all the button actually do.
As for German reliability, my previous German cars have been no better and in some cases not as reliable as the several Alfa's I've owned, I suppose nowadays many people have little involvement in understanding how their car works, don't fix it themselves or have little mechanical sympathy, in these cases an Alfa will not be forgiving. Non car enthusiasts are comforted by shiny dealerships with free coffee machines and comfort themselves in believing they drive a 'premium' car. Give me a Busso V6 anyday!
I was however dissapointed when I saw the initial launch Giulia pictures, as it looked too BMW from the side and too much like an Americanised Maserati from the back. However I have looked around a QV in person and there are elements of the design that just do not show in pictures and makes it more special in the real world.
I would still prefer it if the side was changed a little, but if it appeals to the mass market and gives Alfa some ££ then it has done it's job. It would be a crime if these didn't sell, given the global rave reviews it is receiving. However early sales numbers are strong !
nickfrog said:
PunterCam said:
In many ways, the fact it's RWD would put me off. FWD has come a long, long way, and I'm sick of being unable to move in even slightly slippy conditions with modern RWD cars.
IME, RWD cars tend to be more tractable than front drivers, amongst many other benefits.I really don't get the "RWD in the wet doesn't work" - a bit of throttle modulation goes a long way.
"A peach"
Compared to what? A concrete mixer? A dumper truck?
It is completely lacking in the charm that made the classic Alfas worth restoring and keeping. Today I drove past a paint shop and saw a 45 year old Alfa bodyshell being given a coat of paint. Last week it was bodyshell in primer. Someone has taken the car to bits and is putting it together again, bit by perfectly restored bit. Can you honestly imagine that happening to this modern Alfa in another 45 years?
This "peach" is just a very same again saloon trying to chase the BMW 3 Series and not quite getting there. Its chances of anyone regarding it as special enough to lovingly restore in decades to come is zero.
I googled "Alfa concept cars" and found two very different ideas, both to what we've actually got and to each other, for a new Alfa.
Neither of them will fulfil the "must copy the 3 Series" brief but it is actually way past time that car manufacturers who want to be seen as special stop copying someone else and actually do something special.
Oh and I'd like RWD and a twin spark engine in a car that is considerably smaller, that is actually important.
Compared to what? A concrete mixer? A dumper truck?
It is completely lacking in the charm that made the classic Alfas worth restoring and keeping. Today I drove past a paint shop and saw a 45 year old Alfa bodyshell being given a coat of paint. Last week it was bodyshell in primer. Someone has taken the car to bits and is putting it together again, bit by perfectly restored bit. Can you honestly imagine that happening to this modern Alfa in another 45 years?
This "peach" is just a very same again saloon trying to chase the BMW 3 Series and not quite getting there. Its chances of anyone regarding it as special enough to lovingly restore in decades to come is zero.
I googled "Alfa concept cars" and found two very different ideas, both to what we've actually got and to each other, for a new Alfa.
Neither of them will fulfil the "must copy the 3 Series" brief but it is actually way past time that car manufacturers who want to be seen as special stop copying someone else and actually do something special.
Oh and I'd like RWD and a twin spark engine in a car that is considerably smaller, that is actually important.
Edited by cymtriks on Sunday 26th February 09:48
45 years ago I doubt the owner of that Brand new Alfa ever thought that someone would restore that car though.
In 45 years from now, who is to say what or if we'll be driving, so personally given the oportunity then absolutley yes, someone might want to re-create the hey-day of 2017 sporting saloons.
There were many many rubbish, ugly, bland and just plain bad cars 45 years ago.
the same is true right now.
There were however some jewels back then....and each of us enthusiasts have our choice....MGs, Morris Minors...Morris Marinas ?!!...Muiras, E-types whatever.
Again personally I'd put the Alfa Guilia above the Morris Marina in their relative eras.
A nice E46 will do well too.... and a C63...and an RS4...
A Guilia QV will sit very well amongst them, now and in 45 years IMO...because right this minute and for the coming few years they're are and will be a shed load more of the others...making the Alfa that bit more special.... as it probably was 45 years ago.
That retro concept is w
k btw.
The 8C proves Alfa can do retro FAR better
the 4C proves they can do current/forward thinking pretty well
The Guilia is here to make up the numbers and get some recognition and profit back.
Fingers crossed.
In 45 years from now, who is to say what or if we'll be driving, so personally given the oportunity then absolutley yes, someone might want to re-create the hey-day of 2017 sporting saloons.
There were many many rubbish, ugly, bland and just plain bad cars 45 years ago.
the same is true right now.
There were however some jewels back then....and each of us enthusiasts have our choice....MGs, Morris Minors...Morris Marinas ?!!...Muiras, E-types whatever.
Again personally I'd put the Alfa Guilia above the Morris Marina in their relative eras.
A nice E46 will do well too.... and a C63...and an RS4...
A Guilia QV will sit very well amongst them, now and in 45 years IMO...because right this minute and for the coming few years they're are and will be a shed load more of the others...making the Alfa that bit more special.... as it probably was 45 years ago.
That retro concept is w
k btw.The 8C proves Alfa can do retro FAR better
the 4C proves they can do current/forward thinking pretty well
The Guilia is here to make up the numbers and get some recognition and profit back.
Fingers crossed.
Quickmoose said:
45 years ago I doubt the owner of that Brand new Alfa ever thought that someone would restore that car though.
In 45 years from now, who is to say what or if we'll be driving, so personally given the oportunity then absolutley yes, someone might want to re-create the hey-day of 2017 sporting saloons.
There were many many rubbish, ugly, bland and just plain bad cars 45 years ago.
the same is true right now.
There were however some jewels back then....and each of us enthusiasts have our choice....MGs, Morris Minors...Morris Marinas ?!!...Muiras, E-types whatever.
Again personally I'd put the Alfa Guilia above the Morris Marina in their relative eras.
A nice E46 will do well too.... and a C63...and an RS4...
A Guilia QV will sit very well amongst them, now and in 45 years IMO...because right this minute and for the coming few years they're are and will be a shed load more of the others...making the Alfa that bit more special.... as it probably was 45 years ago.
That retro concept is wk btw.
The 8C proves Alfa can do retro FAR better
the 4C proves they can do current/forward thinking pretty well
The Guilia is here to make up the numbers and get some recognition and profit back.
Fingers crossed.
Agreed. 45 years ago we had the first Alfetta and Alfasud, Both were game changing cars (the Sud more so) but regular cars (Cortina., Marina etc) were such awful rubbish really. Equally good was the original 5 Series and the fuel injection 520i and in terms of styling they were contemporary but hardly futuristic. The M10 and Alfa Twin Cam were ageing power units even then.In 45 years from now, who is to say what or if we'll be driving, so personally given the oportunity then absolutley yes, someone might want to re-create the hey-day of 2017 sporting saloons.
There were many many rubbish, ugly, bland and just plain bad cars 45 years ago.
the same is true right now.
There were however some jewels back then....and each of us enthusiasts have our choice....MGs, Morris Minors...Morris Marinas ?!!...Muiras, E-types whatever.
Again personally I'd put the Alfa Guilia above the Morris Marina in their relative eras.
A nice E46 will do well too.... and a C63...and an RS4...
A Guilia QV will sit very well amongst them, now and in 45 years IMO...because right this minute and for the coming few years they're are and will be a shed load more of the others...making the Alfa that bit more special.... as it probably was 45 years ago.
That retro concept is w
k btw.The 8C proves Alfa can do retro FAR better
the 4C proves they can do current/forward thinking pretty well
The Guilia is here to make up the numbers and get some recognition and profit back.
Fingers crossed.
If Alfa doesn't make it with this car, it probably never will. I like the way that unlike BMW, they're not constantly banging on about their heritage.
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