RE: Hybrids are the 'next diesel': Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
Yipper said:
Electric will not be the future.
There is not enough lithium, new or recyclable, in the land, sea or space to electrify the world's billion vehicles for the next century. Like diesel, electric will have a couple of hot decades and then fade away.
Remember where you read it first.
complete mythThere is not enough lithium, new or recyclable, in the land, sea or space to electrify the world's billion vehicles for the next century. Like diesel, electric will have a couple of hot decades and then fade away.
Remember where you read it first.
it's 25th most abundant element on earth
worlds existing mining reserves might struggle to meet demand, but that is because no one has ever needed to look that hard for it in the past
230 billion tons are estimated to be in the seas, enough to meet the battery demands of trillions of electric vehicles.
bobtail4x4 said:
it must be your driving style or you had the hamdbrake on. I drove to see friends yesterday from rural Yorks to Very rural Lincs, 130 mile round trip ok I kept to the speed limits but the 2.0 A3 was showing 68mpg when we got home.
No i just based mine on fill to fill results rather than the ambitious display ging84 said:
Yipper said:
Electric will not be the future.
There is not enough lithium, new or recyclable, in the land, sea or space to electrify the world's billion vehicles for the next century. Like diesel, electric will have a couple of hot decades and then fade away.
Remember where you read it first.
complete mythThere is not enough lithium, new or recyclable, in the land, sea or space to electrify the world's billion vehicles for the next century. Like diesel, electric will have a couple of hot decades and then fade away.
Remember where you read it first.
it's 25th most abundant element on earth
worlds existing mining reserves might struggle to meet demand, but that is because no one has ever needed to look that hard for it in the past
230 billion tons are estimated to be in the seas, enough to meet the battery demands of trillions of electric vehicles.
robemcdonald said:
Evanivitch said:
Krikkit said:
stuckmojo said:
The Panamera might not be the best example, but the transition to electric is definitely being played out by petrol/electric hybrids. Forget Hydrogen, it's dead in the water (pun intended) unless they can crack the molecule of H2O without spending massive amounts of energy. Good luck with that.
If we crack fusion in the next few decades the battery-powered car will be gone, and Hydrogen will be in. Almost unlimited electricity would be a complete revolution in terms of general usage.Hydrogen will be a good option for haulage, long distance drivers and range extenders. But it's not the answer to all the questions.
Edited for flipping iPad keyboard.
Edited by robemcdonald on Sunday 19th March 15:24
Imo they will get beaten to it by others but it's a huge project.
Even given fusion batteries are still more efficient than hydrogen and far easier and safer
Yipper said:
Electric will not be the future.
There is not enough lithium, new or recyclable, in the land, sea or space to electrify the world's billion vehicles for the next century. Like diesel, electric will have a couple of hot decades and then fade away.
Remember where you read it first.
Apart from anything else, electricity is not dependant on lithium as the sole power reserve, lithiums just the current best based on various market factors.There is not enough lithium, new or recyclable, in the land, sea or space to electrify the world's billion vehicles for the next century. Like diesel, electric will have a couple of hot decades and then fade away.
Remember where you read it first.
Yipper said:
Electric will not be the future.
There is not enough lithium, new or recyclable, in the land, sea or space to electrify the world's billion vehicles for the next century. Like diesel, electric will have a couple of hot decades and then fade away.
Remember where you read it first.
I love it when people look at current reserves and demand and get the wrong answer.There is not enough lithium, new or recyclable, in the land, sea or space to electrify the world's billion vehicles for the next century. Like diesel, electric will have a couple of hot decades and then fade away.
Remember where you read it first.
Lithium is in demand and as the price rises so does the investment in exploration and extraction. In Chile alone there's a potential reserve greater than the current known reserves.
Oil is a perfect example of this, especially when you consider the way increase in price led to the shale oil boom.
I'm a recent petrol hybrid convert due to better BIK. But also I genuinely wanted a car for my often shortish commutes where I could go emission free in town.
I was really p1ssed off when I had to switch to my first diesel company car several years ago because we all knew how much crap came out of the tail pipe.
It's not a perfect solution but the way you can harvest braking and lift off coasting energy is very clever. And the technology will get better.
My average mpg hasn't changed since swapping from a 2.0 TDI.
I was really p1ssed off when I had to switch to my first diesel company car several years ago because we all knew how much crap came out of the tail pipe.
It's not a perfect solution but the way you can harvest braking and lift off coasting energy is very clever. And the technology will get better.
My average mpg hasn't changed since swapping from a 2.0 TDI.
steve1386 said:
I'm sorry, but a Prius will never achieve the same real word economy as a diesel, nor will any hybrid. If the battery is fully charged, then they are only useful in short, stop-start city traffic.
Take one on a motorway for a long journey and you'll be lucky to see 40mpg.
On top of that you have to tell someone you drive a Prius!
2001 Honda Insight owner checking in. Take one on a motorway for a long journey and you'll be lucky to see 40mpg.
On top of that you have to tell someone you drive a Prius!
I've no problem with the idea of having hybrid as a means of reducing fossil fuel consumption. All the kinetic energy in slowing an IC car is simply wasted. That doesn't make sense.
I think there is a seperate problem that sees hybrids and electric cars as an environmental solution. I think it was Gordon Murray who wrote an essay about the whole life-cycle polution of a Prius being greater than an all petrol Fiat Panda. IIRC it was by a considerable margin.
As mentioned a few posts above there is (apparently) as much polution produced by the 15 biggest ships as all the cars in the world. The real environmental problem in the world is that we all buy far too much stuff. Cars are no different, and the new ones with the new tech inside are marketed to the rich, early adopters, as something to clear their conscience. Of course, it's just marketing smoke and mirrors. I'd be interested to know the lifecycle polution of cars in Cuba, big well built, American gas guzzlers that had to be kept running - there was no alternative.
I have a friend who is one of those early adopter, one-percenters - she drives a Tesla Model S. I call it her Coal Powered car. She does not find it amusing.
I think there is a seperate problem that sees hybrids and electric cars as an environmental solution. I think it was Gordon Murray who wrote an essay about the whole life-cycle polution of a Prius being greater than an all petrol Fiat Panda. IIRC it was by a considerable margin.
As mentioned a few posts above there is (apparently) as much polution produced by the 15 biggest ships as all the cars in the world. The real environmental problem in the world is that we all buy far too much stuff. Cars are no different, and the new ones with the new tech inside are marketed to the rich, early adopters, as something to clear their conscience. Of course, it's just marketing smoke and mirrors. I'd be interested to know the lifecycle polution of cars in Cuba, big well built, American gas guzzlers that had to be kept running - there was no alternative.
I have a friend who is one of those early adopter, one-percenters - she drives a Tesla Model S. I call it her Coal Powered car. She does not find it amusing.
suffolk009 said:
I've no problem with the idea of having hybrid as a means of reducing fossil fuel consumption. All the kinetic energy in slowing an IC car is simply wasted. That doesn't make sense.
I think there is a seperate problem that sees hybrids and electric cars as an environmental solution. I think it was Gordon Murray who wrote an essay about the whole life-cycle polution of a Prius being greater than an all petrol Fiat Panda. IIRC it was by a considerable margin.
As mentioned a few posts above there is (apparently) as much polution produced by the 15 biggest ships as all the cars in the world. The real environmental problem in the world is that we all buy far too much stuff. Cars are no different, and the new ones with the new tech inside are marketed to the rich, early adopters, as something to clear their conscience. Of course, it's just marketing smoke and mirrors. I'd be interested to know the lifecycle polution of cars in Cuba, big well built, American gas guzzlers that had to be kept running - there was no alternative.
I have a friend who is one of those early adopter, one-percenters - she drives a Tesla Model S. I call it her Coal Powered car. She does not find it amusing.
That's probably because only around 22% of UK power is generated from coal, still let's not let facts get in the way of a nice joke eh?I think there is a seperate problem that sees hybrids and electric cars as an environmental solution. I think it was Gordon Murray who wrote an essay about the whole life-cycle polution of a Prius being greater than an all petrol Fiat Panda. IIRC it was by a considerable margin.
As mentioned a few posts above there is (apparently) as much polution produced by the 15 biggest ships as all the cars in the world. The real environmental problem in the world is that we all buy far too much stuff. Cars are no different, and the new ones with the new tech inside are marketed to the rich, early adopters, as something to clear their conscience. Of course, it's just marketing smoke and mirrors. I'd be interested to know the lifecycle polution of cars in Cuba, big well built, American gas guzzlers that had to be kept running - there was no alternative.
I have a friend who is one of those early adopter, one-percenters - she drives a Tesla Model S. I call it her Coal Powered car. She does not find it amusing.
And172940 said:
Surely the whole point of hybrids is to harvest the kinetic energy of the vehicle when slowing down and then reuse it, rather than turning it into heat with the brakes. Indisputable common sense.
Bingo!A hybrid would suit the journey type I do well, it's just they are a bit salty still and my Jazz is showing 53mpg for this tank full.
I'd quite like a Prius and am lead to believe that they are staggeringly reliable, even for a Toyota.
The whole point of them was to reduce local emissions in built up areas.
thelawnet1 said:
rxe said:
Every Uber-ist in London drives a Prius for one reason - they aren't expensive, they are reliable, economical, and they also hit the emissions targets.
Not only London, much of the world.The Prius is clearly genuinely more
This Porsche is not environmentally friendly at all, and does not deserve any tax incentives.
The problem is with the official drive cycle, which was defined in 1997 and is the responsibility of the UN (not even the EU).
ging84 said:
Yipper said:
Electric will not be the future.
There is not enough lithium, new or recyclable, in the land, sea or space to electrify the world's billion vehicles for the next century. Like diesel, electric will have a couple of hot decades and then fade away.
Remember where you read it first.
complete mythThere is not enough lithium, new or recyclable, in the land, sea or space to electrify the world's billion vehicles for the next century. Like diesel, electric will have a couple of hot decades and then fade away.
Remember where you read it first.
it's 25th most abundant element on earth
worlds existing mining reserves might struggle to meet demand, but that is because no one has ever needed to look that hard for it in the past
230 billion tons are estimated to be in the seas, enough to meet the battery demands of trillions of electric vehicles.
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Is-Th...
t fashionable celebrity driven drivel 
Yipper said:
Lol. If all vehicle companies copy Tesla, the world will run out of lithium in under 20 years. Ocean lithium is not high enough quality for commercial vehicle batteries.
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Is-Th...
Another example of poor reporting that doesn't accept that the investment in lithium reserves is only just ramping up and that extraction is still a developing process. Take shale oil as a perfect example of opening new resources through investment. It made the US a net exporter of oil almost overnight.https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Is-Th...
mybrainhurts said:
I do wish one little item in the article would go away and die in a corner.
VW SCANDAL?
It was nothing of the sort, it was just a sensible and clever move to avoid pointless regulations. Nothing to do with mpg...everybody knows those figures are always over optimistic.
Breaking the law for financial gain and likely causing deaths is sensible now? VW SCANDAL?
It was nothing of the sort, it was just a sensible and clever move to avoid pointless regulations. Nothing to do with mpg...everybody knows those figures are always over optimistic.
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