RE: 840hp Dodge Challenger SRT Demon revealed
Discussion
RoverP6B said:
We said the same of MG Rover doing the V8 75/ZT and the X-Power SV... turned out it was a "let's piss what little money we have left up the wall and go out in a blaze of glory" attempt. FCA's finances are also in a pretty parlous state...
Not that I don't applaud nonsense like this, but I have a feeling FCA are going to go spectacularly bust quite soon.
Interestingly, their finances (FCA US) (ex finance) are the best they've been this century. Since being pulled out of bankruptcy by the US Government and Fiat they have turned the sales side around massively and used the Jeep brand to ride the SUV phenomenon of the last decade. Not that I don't applaud nonsense like this, but I have a feeling FCA are going to go spectacularly bust quite soon.
The problem is that they are the only car manufacturer in the US. All the others are banks who use the cars they make to help sell massive margin debt to people with no actual money. FCA US doesn't have a finance arm. It's just a car maker and so it cannot access the money markets efficiently, cannot lend to itself and gives away much of the retail debt mark-up to partners.
So while as a car manufacturer it has good figures and better debt ratios than Ford or GM as the US enters the phase of rising rates, FCA doesn't stand a chance of competing against the retail lenders like Ford or GM as they are a blue collar manufacturer who cannot win or even compete in a price war because the real business is about selling debt. It's about who can sell the most debt with the biggest margins and FCA aren't even in the game. With rates on the floor they make almost no margin from their revenues. So as rates rise they will be selling cars at a loss very soon.
FCA US has been up for sale for years because Exor knows that as the US company isn't a bank it cannot compete in a rising rates environment. They need to offload that risk so that it doesn't destroy the non US business which should be able to ride out the rate cycle.
On a separate note, these crazy Dodge products are an interesting side effect of being an Italian controlled company, incorporated in the Netherlands and head quartered in the U.K.
Their US customer base are the sort of blue collar, white people who buy Freedom Fries by the bucket and give trips to the shops operational code names as they see such an event as a potential combat situation. Such people, riddled with debt, not very well educated and angry at how everything is the fault of foreigners are a huge risk to a foreign owned and controlled, great American brand like Chrysler. So like giving coloured beads to the natives, the company emphasises its American, blue collar roots with these drag cars and massive trucks etc. Which is fun for all petrolheads.
AshBurrows said:
From the factory, with a warranty?
That's the crux of this - while the Demon is by no means the quickest you can go with a taxed, insured car on drag radials, it's currently the only one that can do it straight off the factory assembly line. The only way you're going to go quicker is the Street Eliminator route, which requires a bespoke build and therefore starts arguments of not being a true street car. The likes of these cars haven't been seen since the late 60's when the Detroit manufacturers were taking shots each other with wilder and wilder production cars. In an age where drivers are being funneled down the route of electric, green, often humdrum cars, the approach from the US car makers to have a bit of fun is worth some acknowledgement - it might be the last time something daft is available to buy off the showroom floor.
dzernski said:
+1 to that.
Interestingly I wouldn't buy one....but that's because I'm a Chevy guy and just prefer a ZL1 generally. Can't wait for the response from GM
Not GM but Hennesy, so with warranty http://www.autoblog.com/2017/04/04/hennessey-exorc...Interestingly I wouldn't buy one....but that's because I'm a Chevy guy and just prefer a ZL1 generally. Can't wait for the response from GM
HappyMidget said:
Not GM but Hennesy, so with warranty http://www.autoblog.com/2017/04/04/hennessey-exorc...
I love this, and the new Jeep Trackhawk - in fact I really like US V8 muscle cars, sportscars and SUVs...and for my sins I think I've driven most of them, but sadly not the SRT, ZR1 or Z06 versions 
. But just as much as the cars I love the names. So much better than a jumble of numbers and letters (except when the numbers are classics like 427 
). So with this being the Demon, I note the even quicker and also warrantied Hennessey car is The Exorcist. I'd take either. HappyMidget said:
dzernski said:
+1 to that.
Interestingly I wouldn't buy one....but that's because I'm a Chevy guy and just prefer a ZL1 generally. Can't wait for the response from GM
Not GM but Hennesy, so with warranty http://www.autoblog.com/2017/04/04/hennessey-exorc...Interestingly I wouldn't buy one....but that's because I'm a Chevy guy and just prefer a ZL1 generally. Can't wait for the response from GM
Hennesy, if Jalopnik are to be believed, have a slight issue with not actually giving the customer what they paid for. A Hennessy warranty may actually be worthless.
DonkeyApple said:
Interestingly, their finances (FCA US) (ex finance) are the best they've been this century. Since being pulled out of bankruptcy by the US Government and Fiat they have turned the sales side around massively and used the Jeep brand to ride the SUV phenomenon of the last decade.
The problem is that they are the only car manufacturer in the US. All the others are banks who use the cars they make to help sell massive margin debt to people with no actual money. FCA US doesn't have a finance arm. It's just a car maker and so it cannot access the money markets efficiently, cannot lend to itself and gives away much of the retail debt mark-up to partners.
So while as a car manufacturer it has good figures and better debt ratios than Ford or GM as the US enters the phase of rising rates, FCA doesn't stand a chance of competing against the retail lenders like Ford or GM as they are a blue collar manufacturer who cannot win or even compete in a price war because the real business is about selling debt. It's about who can sell the most debt with the biggest margins and FCA aren't even in the game. With rates on the floor they make almost no margin from their revenues. So as rates rise they will be selling cars at a loss very soon.
FCA US has been up for sale for years because Exor knows that as the US company isn't a bank it cannot compete in a rising rates environment. They need to offload that risk so that it doesn't destroy the non US business which should be able to ride out the rate cycle.
On a separate note, these crazy Dodge products are an interesting side effect of being an Italian controlled company, incorporated in the Netherlands and head quartered in the U.K.
Their US customer base are the sort of blue collar, white people who buy Freedom Fries by the bucket and give trips to the shops operational code names as they see such an event as a potential combat situation. Such people, riddled with debt, not very well educated and angry at how everything is the fault of foreigners are a huge risk to a foreign owned and controlled, great American brand like Chrysler. So like giving coloured beads to the natives, the company emphasises its American, blue collar roots with these drag cars and massive trucks etc. Which is fun for all petrolheads.
Entertaining reading that gave me a giggle, however you should take this to N,P and E. The problem is that they are the only car manufacturer in the US. All the others are banks who use the cars they make to help sell massive margin debt to people with no actual money. FCA US doesn't have a finance arm. It's just a car maker and so it cannot access the money markets efficiently, cannot lend to itself and gives away much of the retail debt mark-up to partners.
So while as a car manufacturer it has good figures and better debt ratios than Ford or GM as the US enters the phase of rising rates, FCA doesn't stand a chance of competing against the retail lenders like Ford or GM as they are a blue collar manufacturer who cannot win or even compete in a price war because the real business is about selling debt. It's about who can sell the most debt with the biggest margins and FCA aren't even in the game. With rates on the floor they make almost no margin from their revenues. So as rates rise they will be selling cars at a loss very soon.
FCA US has been up for sale for years because Exor knows that as the US company isn't a bank it cannot compete in a rising rates environment. They need to offload that risk so that it doesn't destroy the non US business which should be able to ride out the rate cycle.
On a separate note, these crazy Dodge products are an interesting side effect of being an Italian controlled company, incorporated in the Netherlands and head quartered in the U.K.
Their US customer base are the sort of blue collar, white people who buy Freedom Fries by the bucket and give trips to the shops operational code names as they see such an event as a potential combat situation. Such people, riddled with debt, not very well educated and angry at how everything is the fault of foreigners are a huge risk to a foreign owned and controlled, great American brand like Chrysler. So like giving coloured beads to the natives, the company emphasises its American, blue collar roots with these drag cars and massive trucks etc. Which is fun for all petrolheads.
I suspect most people in general gassing are not interested USA conspiracies and white shaming.
It's kind of like turning up to cars and coffee and slating a Ferrari just because you can't own one.
5ohmustang said:
Entertaining reading that gave me a giggle, however you should take this to N,P and E.
I suspect most people in general gassing are not interested USA conspiracies and white shaming.
It's kind of like turning up to cars and coffee and slating a Ferrari just because you can't own one.
You see, your ignorance of the basics is what happens when you just read right wing propaganda rags and live in a hole preparing to kill people. I suspect most people in general gassing are not interested USA conspiracies and white shaming.
It's kind of like turning up to cars and coffee and slating a Ferrari just because you can't own one.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.businessinsider...
Matt Harper said:
I suspect that 5oh's comments were directed more toward your last paragraph, which, with all due respect, makes you sound like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.
Sweeping generalizations are one thing - what you wrote suggests you have some ingrained bitterness. Why's that?
Not really. It's exactly why the firm is stepping up the production of these very specific models and why they are focussing on a particular image. It's the exact same target demographic as the Freedom Fries concept. There is no sweeping generalisation at all. And like I said the flip side is some great fun cars. Sweeping generalizations are one thing - what you wrote suggests you have some ingrained bitterness. Why's that?
The irony of course is that 5ohm has built a bunker and armed himself to the teeth to defend himself when these debt consumers run out of money and the US collapses into the zombie holocaust. And goes to great length to froth about them and how he is preparing to shoot them in the face.
Matt Harper said:
I suspect that 5oh's comments were directed more toward your last paragraph, which, with all due respect, makes you sound like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.
Sweeping generalizations are one thing - what you wrote suggests you have some ingrained bitterness. Why's that?
Exactly Matt.Sweeping generalizations are one thing - what you wrote suggests you have some ingrained bitterness. Why's that?
$35k will get you a used 392, the only other car I'd have over mine.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/sms/160745576
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/sms/160745576
5ohmustang said:
Matt Harper said:
I suspect that 5oh's comments were directed more toward your last paragraph, which, with all due respect, makes you sound like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.
Sweeping generalizations are one thing - what you wrote suggests you have some ingrained bitterness. Why's that?
Exactly Matt.Sweeping generalizations are one thing - what you wrote suggests you have some ingrained bitterness. Why's that?
Edited by powerstroke on Saturday 15th April 07:50
US firms are now building the kind of cars that enthusiasts would want to build for themselves, using the aftermarket. With cars like this GM is going down the same road of freezing out the aftermarket that Land Rover has (perhaps rather too publicly) announced they are going down to get rid of the Kahns of this world. Not saying that's a bad thing as obviously it's creating a golden age right now but it may have negative ramifications for the aftermarket.
Edited by Blackpuddin on Saturday 15th April 13:42
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