are NA engines fun?
Discussion
rubez said:
no. thinking of going from a 370bhp 2.0L turbo to a 270bhp 3.5L NA. i know it will be a big performance drop, but then the car costs half the price.
worried it won't have much overtaking grunt for one.
My 530i gathers speed quite pleasingly for a big automatic, knock it into sport, a couple of clicks on shift button and off it goes. Sounds quite nice at 6000rpm+ too. worried it won't have much overtaking grunt for one.
A 550i would be better though.
It's just a different approach required. Revvy NA requires forethought and practise - after which you might find it a rewarding thing to work with. It will not ever bail you out of poor driving /planning by delivering a whomp of torque. And that's the drivers problem (i.e. driver created, and driver-owned... also a nice one to educate yourself out of, perhaps. I did)
Both my cars are N/A, and revvy, and geared to explot it (the BEC exceptionally so). Wonderful to my taste, and in no way would I like a turbo on either.
That said, the comment above about poorly-chosen N/A engines is a good one. Great ones are the finest complement to a sorted chassis you can imagine; poor generic solutions are ...the pits, all-round.
Both my cars are N/A, and revvy, and geared to explot it (the BEC exceptionally so). Wonderful to my taste, and in no way would I like a turbo on either.
That said, the comment above about poorly-chosen N/A engines is a good one. Great ones are the finest complement to a sorted chassis you can imagine; poor generic solutions are ...the pits, all-round.
Edited by Huff on Thursday 13th April 22:28
I went from a 1.8T ca. 210ps/270Nm to a 3.5 N/A ca. 313ps/370Nm and I was disappointed at first despite the large difference in power and torque. I missed the low down shove from the turbo engine even though my new car was undoubtedly faster.
However, I wouldn't go back now. I love the progressive increase in power across the rev range, the revviness and the throttle response from the N/A. The 1.8T never sounded like it wanted to be revved hard, while the 3.5 N/A will keep going and going. Keeping the power on tap is also fun when driving through the bends.
Plus lets be honest, a 3.5 N/A V6 sounds a hell of better than a muffled blown 4-pot. In the case of N/A 4's, just take one look at the S2000. Superb engine.
It may take a period of adjustment, but you won't miss turbos.
However, I wouldn't go back now. I love the progressive increase in power across the rev range, the revviness and the throttle response from the N/A. The 1.8T never sounded like it wanted to be revved hard, while the 3.5 N/A will keep going and going. Keeping the power on tap is also fun when driving through the bends.
Plus lets be honest, a 3.5 N/A V6 sounds a hell of better than a muffled blown 4-pot. In the case of N/A 4's, just take one look at the S2000. Superb engine.
It may take a period of adjustment, but you won't miss turbos.
Depends what level of car we're talking about but hot hatch wise ive recently gone from a corolla t sport (190hp 140lbft N/A revved to 8400rpm ish) to an astra vxr (240hp 236lbft not sure on max revs 6500ish?)
Both incredibly fun for different reasons. The corolla screaming away watching the revs rise and the astra with a big lump of power+torque (nice surge) and some pops and bangs.
The corolla was ultimately a poor motorway car for obvious reasons due to rpm's at certain speeds etc. The astra is very good (or would be very good if the full remus on it didn't drone slightly).
At no point during daily driving did i feel the corolla struggled through a lack of torque, either it was fine around town or if you needed to overtake you'd just drop it down a gear (i don't feel that changing gear to overtake is a chore unlike many on here...)
If you care about surging past everyone off of a roundabout a turbo with a big torque figure is excellent, for me B road driving has been more enjoyable in any performance/ sportier N/A ive driven (corolla, mx5's etc). But to be honest its more about where the power band is and the gearing. As ive started to drive faster cars on the road to me there seems to be limited appeal past a certain level of performance. Its not really enjoyable pushing on in anything that you cant use anything more than 2nd gear in without reaching ridiculous speeds.
If i had to swap to another hot hatch at a similar price point a type r would be very high if not top of the list to have a look at, if i didn't do too many long journeys that is.
Both incredibly fun for different reasons. The corolla screaming away watching the revs rise and the astra with a big lump of power+torque (nice surge) and some pops and bangs.
The corolla was ultimately a poor motorway car for obvious reasons due to rpm's at certain speeds etc. The astra is very good (or would be very good if the full remus on it didn't drone slightly).
At no point during daily driving did i feel the corolla struggled through a lack of torque, either it was fine around town or if you needed to overtake you'd just drop it down a gear (i don't feel that changing gear to overtake is a chore unlike many on here...)
If you care about surging past everyone off of a roundabout a turbo with a big torque figure is excellent, for me B road driving has been more enjoyable in any performance/ sportier N/A ive driven (corolla, mx5's etc). But to be honest its more about where the power band is and the gearing. As ive started to drive faster cars on the road to me there seems to be limited appeal past a certain level of performance. Its not really enjoyable pushing on in anything that you cant use anything more than 2nd gear in without reaching ridiculous speeds.
If i had to swap to another hot hatch at a similar price point a type r would be very high if not top of the list to have a look at, if i didn't do too many long journeys that is.
As has been said, it all depends on which ones you are comparing.
I must be showing my age - all my cars had NA engines until I got a Leon Cupra in 2003! It had plenty of mid-range grunt, but it got very breathless as you got up towards the red-line.
Much prefer the NA engine in my current BMW Z4Coupe - pulls well low down, but is still going strong right up to the red-line!
Best idea is probably to try before you buy.
I must be showing my age - all my cars had NA engines until I got a Leon Cupra in 2003! It had plenty of mid-range grunt, but it got very breathless as you got up towards the red-line.
Much prefer the NA engine in my current BMW Z4Coupe - pulls well low down, but is still going strong right up to the red-line!
Best idea is probably to try before you buy.
I've been driving for 26 years and always had 'performance' variants of whatever model.
Aside from the sharper throttle response I've never really seen the allure of a heavy, thirsty, large capacity lump. Nice sounds etc but never that exciting.
I much prefer to drama of a turbo car - induction roar, shrill spooling whistle and the wallop of torque.
Aside from the sharper throttle response I've never really seen the allure of a heavy, thirsty, large capacity lump. Nice sounds etc but never that exciting.
I much prefer to drama of a turbo car - induction roar, shrill spooling whistle and the wallop of torque.
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