RE: BMW M4 CS - official

[p1stonhead]

okgo said:

p1stonhead said:

Just because someone can afford something doesnt mean it isnt overpriced.

Actually it means exactly that.

Afford and 'willing' are not the same.
I have a 325d for sale for £1m. People can afford it. No one is willing. Its overpriced.

Overall though being overpriced is wholly subjective so no one is right apart from their own opinion. If they sell them all they obviously arent overpriced to those people. Most on here seem to think it is though.

[Dale487]

£31K - Porsche don't even charge £20K for a GTS over a base Carrera & they give you an extra 80hp.

I know the M4 CS is more than just a 29hp increase and has a much more focused spec than the 911 GTS and at least you can have a manual GTS 911.

[steakandchips]

p1stonhead said:

Afford and 'willing' are not the same.
I have a 325d for sale for £1m. People can afford it. No one is willing. Its overpriced.

Overall though being overpriced is wholly subjective so no one is right apart from their own opinion. If they sell them all they obviously arent overpriced to those people. Most on here seem to think it is though.

The market will decide if the price is wrong or right, not people on here who would rather buy a different car for £90k. For what it's worth, I've got a M4 CP and I'm not sure that's even worth the money. I think I should have spent another £10k on a C63 S.

[Roma101]

Nero77 said:

Four words...Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio..

It is 30k cheaper, looks better, rarer, faster. Yes I am biased as I own one, but at 60k it's the bargain of the car world. Comes to something that to keep up BMW charge 30k more than their standard M car.

Looks - subjective. Also, the Alfa should be compared against the M3, not the M4, as it is a saloon.

Faster - probably not (unless you mean in a straight line?). The only meaningful comparison I have seen in respect of speed is the Top Gear lap. However, that was a non CP car. The CS has 35 more hp than a bogo M, less weight and more aero, which is probably enough to make up the 0.2 of a second that the Alfa had over the BMW.

Another thing to factor in is that the BM probably won't break down!

You hopefully have had no issue with your car, but I have it on good authority that TG went through four (4) Alfas as they kept on breaking down.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the Alfa, but if I had 60k burning a hole in my pocket, I would definitely go for a CP M.

Each to their own though and hope you enjoy the Alfa.

[Wills2]

It's not the sweet spot of the range, it may well be the best but at 90k it looks awfully expensive next to an M4 CP which is probably is the sweet spot and looks great value next to this car, perhaps that was the goal.

90K in base spec is a fantastical price, it wouldn't get a look in against a 991.2 GTS if it were me and I've had 5 M cars.

[vz-r_dave]

p1stonhead said:

okgo said:

p1stonhead said:

Just because someone can afford something doesnt mean it isnt overpriced.

Actually it means exactly that.

Afford and 'willing' are not the same.
I have a 325d for sale for £1m. People can afford it. No one is willing. Its overpriced.

Overall though being overpriced is wholly subjective so no one is right apart from their own opinion. If they sell them all they obviously arent overpriced to those people. Most on here seem to think it is though.

From a customers perspective you can deem this overpriced based on the tangible add-ons.... what is 29HP worth? What are the suspension tweaks worth? What are the carbon add-ons worth? If you cost them all up, are they really worth a £30k price hike? On that basis you could state that the car is overpriced.

[p1stonhead]

vz-r_dave said:

p1stonhead said:

okgo said:

p1stonhead said:

Just because someone can afford something doesnt mean it isnt overpriced.

Actually it means exactly that.

Afford and 'willing' are not the same.
I have a 325d for sale for £1m. People can afford it. No one is willing. Its overpriced.

Overall though being overpriced is wholly subjective so no one is right apart from their own opinion. If they sell them all they obviously arent overpriced to those people. Most on here seem to think it is though.

From a customers perspective you can deem this overpriced based on the tangible add-ons.... what is 29HP worth? What are the suspension tweaks worth? What are the carbon add-ons worth? If you cost them all up, are they really worth a £30k price hike? On that basis you could state that the car is overpriced.

Yes it could be argued that way but again, still slightly subjective. Lots of people would rather pay more to have BMW do it than do it aftermarket. And to some people £30k is the equivalent of me spending 1p - they wont even ask the price because its utterly irrelevent.

I cant decide if personally the CS or this is more overpriced (im not sure how special the GTS is supposed to be);

[okgo]

p1stonhead said:

Afford and 'willing' are not the same.
I have a 325d for sale for £1m. People can afford it. No one is willing. Its overpriced.

Overall though being overpriced is wholly subjective so no one is right apart from their own opinion. If they sell them all they obviously arent overpriced to those people. Most on here seem to think it is though.

Incredible you managed to ask EVERYONE and nobody said they were willing

Most on here think everything is overpriced and compare it to something that happened 20 years ago.

[p1stonhead]

okgo said:

p1stonhead said:

Afford and 'willing' are not the same.
I have a 325d for sale for £1m. People can afford it. No one is willing. Its overpriced.

Overall though being overpriced is wholly subjective so no one is right apart from their own opinion. If they sell them all they obviously arent overpriced to those people. Most on here seem to think it is though.

Incredible you managed to ask EVERYONE and nobody said they were willing

I am firmly assuming. If you know anyone ill chuck you £200k for the referral

[vz-r_dave]

p1stonhead said:

vz-r_dave said:

p1stonhead said:

okgo said:

p1stonhead said:

Just because someone can afford something doesnt mean it isnt overpriced.

Actually it means exactly that.

Afford and 'willing' are not the same.
I have a 325d for sale for £1m. People can afford it. No one is willing. Its overpriced.

Overall though being overpriced is wholly subjective so no one is right apart from their own opinion. If they sell them all they obviously arent overpriced to those people. Most on here seem to think it is though.

From a customers perspective you can deem this overpriced based on the tangible add-ons.... what is 29HP worth? What are the suspension tweaks worth? What are the carbon add-ons worth? If you cost them all up, are they really worth a £30k price hike? On that basis you could state that the car is overpriced.

Yes it could be argued that way but again, still slightly subjective. Lots of people would rather pay more to have BMW do it than do it aftermarket. And to some people £30k is the equivalent of me spending 1p - they wont even ask the price because its utterly irrelevent.

I cant decide if personally the CS or this is more overpriced (im not sure how special the GTS is supposed to be);

I am looking purely at the tangible side of things here, not the subjective side because you can't quantify it.

[Roma101]

steakandchips said:

p1stonhead said:

Afford and 'willing' are not the same.
I have a 325d for sale for £1m. People can afford it. No one is willing. Its overpriced.

Overall though being overpriced is wholly subjective so no one is right apart from their own opinion. If they sell them all they obviously arent overpriced to those people. Most on here seem to think it is though.

The market will decide if the price is wrong or right, not people on here who would rather buy a different car for £90k. For what it's worth, I've got a M4 CP and I'm not sure that's even worth the money. I think I should have spent another £10k on a C63 S.

For what it's worth, I test drove a standard C63 and tbh, was really disappointed. I know the S will be a bit more potent, but I don't reckon enough to make a huge difference. It was not that the car was bad (it is still a good car), just that the media has hyped up the C63s so much, I expected it to be amazing. But for me, it wasn't. A reminder of the lesson that you should always go on your own impressions rather than listen to others. Which means this post is meaningless! Damn.

[mwstewart]

That looks fantastic but seems really poor value for money. For that kind of premium over the standard car I'd expect some material physical changes to driveline and suspension, not a few tweaks and what sounds like some minor engine calibration work.

[Nero77]

Roma101 said:

Looks - subjective. Also, the Alfa should be compared against the M3, not the M4, as it is a saloon.

Faster - probably not (unless you mean in a straight line?). The only meaningful comparison I have seen in respect of speed is the Top Gear lap. However, that was a non CP car. The CS has 35 more hp than a bogo M, less weight and more aero, which is probably enough to make up the 0.2 of a second that the Alfa had over the BMW.

Another thing to factor in is that the BM probably won't break down!

You hopefully have had no issue with your car, but I have it on good authority that TG went through four (4) Alfas as they kept on breaking down.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the Alfa, but if I had 60k burning a hole in my pocket, I would definitely go for a CP M.

Each to their own though and hope you enjoy the Alfa.

I've had mine 5 weeks and done 2500 miles in it. No issues at all, no breakdowns, rattles, gremlins. Ok, ok, the satnav reset itself once. Apart from that it's been faultless.

I didn't have 60k burning a hole in my pocket. But I decided I needed the Alfa, the M4 (or C63) couldn't make me get out the man maths calculator. I've driven the M4 and it's good, but the Alfa is just more fun. And to me that's the key - on paper it's faster or equal but as you say no one will really notice, but the Alfa felt more alive and engaging (to me). And bugger me it's fast. And it's different, it's not just another BMW or Audi or Merc.

As for depreciation, the M3/M4s have hardly held up well, nor the C63. I am not expecting to make money by any means but to say it will be worse than it's immediate rivals is wrong.

[CaptainSensib1e]

C7 JFW said:

At a time when you can buy a Focus RS for £32k, or 35k with trimmings.

A BMW M3 for £90k, even in CS format, is over-priced.

Or a Mustang GT for under £40k. No doubt the BMW is a better car, but no way twice as good.

[okgo]

We are comparing a chav chariot like the Focus RS to a BMW M car?

[vz-r_dave]

okgo said:

We are comparing a chav chariot like the Focus RS to a BMW M car?

I am not a Ford fan but surely you shouldn't be calling out the Focus RS as a chav chariot when you drive the Chav favourite S3.......

[WCZ]

vz-r_dave said:

I am not a Ford fan but surely you shouldn't be calling out the Focus RS as a chav chariot when you drive the Chav favourite S3.......

most of the people I've seen with the new 4WD Focus RS appear to be quite old (40+) around here
the S3 is mostly driven erratically by chavs here (Manchester)

[p1stonhead]

vz-r_dave said:

okgo said:

We are comparing a chav chariot like the Focus RS to a BMW M car?

I am not a Ford fan but surely you shouldn't be calling out the Focus RS as a chav chariot when you drive the Chav favourite S3.......

[anonymous-user]

Roma101 said:

Looks - subjective. Also, the Alfa should be compared against the M3, not the M4, as it is a saloon.

Faster - probably not (unless you mean in a straight line?). The only meaningful comparison I have seen in respect of speed is the Top Gear lap. However, that was a non CP car. The CS has 35 more hp than a bogo M, less weight and more aero, which is probably enough to make up the 0.2 of a second that the Alfa had over the BMW.

Another thing to factor in is that the BM probably won't break down!

You hopefully have had no issue with your car, but I have it on good authority that TG went through four (4) Alfas as they kept on breaking down.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the Alfa, but if I had 60k burning a hole in my pocket, I would definitely go for a CP M.

Each to their own though and hope you enjoy the Alfa.

Surely they went through four was because Harris kept sticking them into that wall which broke windscreens etc ?

If four had failed for mechanical reasons I suspect more people would know about it.

As for the CS I suspect it'll be a great drive. 30k Better than a CP or a GQF ? Who knows but I suspect dininishing returns will play a part.

I have a deposit down for an M2 CS and am hoping they have a less ambitious pricing policy when that sees the light of day !

[okgo]

p1stonhead said:

The S3 is VERY different (the one I have anyway) to the RS. Very much more subtle, I would never buy one of those 4 exhausted embarrassments they now sell. I also do about 2000 miles a year, so its not really like I am ever seen in it, but I do put my tracksuit on when I do.