House insurance query - how to protect ourselves?
Discussion
We've had some cracking around the ceiling/wall interface and running up/down from windowframes, mainly upstairs, for a little while - started in one room, has spread a lot further - most are hairline but a couple are very noticeable. We live on clay soil which in our back garden gets saturated during very-wet weather.
Combined with a couple of minor cracks outside (near windows), we we concerned enough and called our insurance. Assessor came out, reported that it's thermal expansion caused by old plaster and old, wooden double-glazing. They said it's not subsidence, don't worry, and we should just redecorate - it'll go away for a while. OK, so far so good.
EXCEPT...insurance renewal has come through at +75%, and on calling them they've got it down as a 'subsidence claim'. I'm expecting a call from them tomorrow so I can challenge this, as it's BS (Insurer has paid for assessor visit / report, which very clearly states it's not subsidence, insurer hasn't paid for anything else - so yes I guess it's a claim but it's certainly not subsidence)
So how do I play this to cover ourselves?
- My biggest concern is that the assessor is wrong and it does turn out to be subsidence at a later date. If we're still with the same insurer (unlikely given their conduct and their quote), no problem, but if we move insurer what happens - will they roll out the old "pre-existing condition" chestnut, and then what do we do vis-a-vis the old insurer???
- My second question is when ringing around for quotes we'll be asked about claims - this sort-of IS a claim, but it's got a clean bill of health structurally, so (how) should I explain this?
I know the stock PH answer is "call a solicitor", but I can see this taking a few hundred quid of billable time to explain/get a straight answer (if a solicitor can give such a thing!
), by which point I've lost any money I could save on probably 2 years of renewals...
Combined with a couple of minor cracks outside (near windows), we we concerned enough and called our insurance. Assessor came out, reported that it's thermal expansion caused by old plaster and old, wooden double-glazing. They said it's not subsidence, don't worry, and we should just redecorate - it'll go away for a while. OK, so far so good.
EXCEPT...insurance renewal has come through at +75%, and on calling them they've got it down as a 'subsidence claim'. I'm expecting a call from them tomorrow so I can challenge this, as it's BS (Insurer has paid for assessor visit / report, which very clearly states it's not subsidence, insurer hasn't paid for anything else - so yes I guess it's a claim but it's certainly not subsidence)
So how do I play this to cover ourselves?
- My biggest concern is that the assessor is wrong and it does turn out to be subsidence at a later date. If we're still with the same insurer (unlikely given their conduct and their quote), no problem, but if we move insurer what happens - will they roll out the old "pre-existing condition" chestnut, and then what do we do vis-a-vis the old insurer???
- My second question is when ringing around for quotes we'll be asked about claims - this sort-of IS a claim, but it's got a clean bill of health structurally, so (how) should I explain this?
I know the stock PH answer is "call a solicitor", but I can see this taking a few hundred quid of billable time to explain/get a straight answer (if a solicitor can give such a thing!
), by which point I've lost any money I could save on probably 2 years of renewals...Once you've had a claim for subsidence, or suspected subsidence, or something that you're told isn't subsidence but might be, or something that looks remotely like it could be distantly related to something that looks like subsidence, do not change insurer, regardless of how badly they treat you.
Pothole said:
You were. Better to pay more than to have your house fall down, surely?
Surely, the OP would have been better of by instructing an independant structural engnieer to check out the cracks, as they wouldn't now have the (potential) claimn in their record.If the engieer found a problem that the insurance would need to sort, then that would be the time to make the claim.
xjay1337 said:
havoc said:
Sounds like it's a bit late for that now.
We thought we were doing the right thing by getting the cracks checked out...
You were, just not by the insurers.We thought we were doing the right thing by getting the cracks checked out...
However if the report says NOT SUBSIDENCE but you have a claim listed I would challenge that.
I'm asking for advice on how to play it / what issues I may face / what I must/mustn't do (in particular given Twig's hyperbolic statement above)?
The chances are if they have it logged as subs then it will have been uploaded to CUE (Claims Underwriting Exchange) too. Which will mean all insurers signed up to CUE can see this when they do claims check, which might making moving elsewhere difficult. If it isn't subsidence, I would push them to update CUE to reflect this. Insurers can request CUE updates the information they hold.
If you still have suspicion that it is subsidence, I would get a second opinion and if that confirms subsidence go back to your insurer with the report and take it from there.
In general terms this is what should happen if you move insurers and subsidence subsequently occurs, this is subject to both insurers being signed up to the agreement.
https://www.cila.co.uk/cila/download-link/sig-down...
If you still have suspicion that it is subsidence, I would get a second opinion and if that confirms subsidence go back to your insurer with the report and take it from there.
In general terms this is what should happen if you move insurers and subsidence subsequently occurs, this is subject to both insurers being signed up to the agreement.
https://www.cila.co.uk/cila/download-link/sig-down...
havoc said:
We've had some cracking around the ceiling/wall interface and running up/down from windowframes, mainly upstairs, for a little while - started in one room, has spread a lot further - most are hairline but a couple are very noticeable. We live on clay soil which in our back garden gets saturated during very-wet weather.
Combined with a couple of minor cracks outside (near windows), we we concerned enough and called our insurance. Assessor came out, reported that it's thermal expansion caused by old plaster and old, wooden double-glazing. They said it's not subsidence, don't worry, and we should just redecorate - it'll go away for a while. OK, so far so good.
EXCEPT...insurance renewal has come through at +75%, and on calling them they've got it down as a 'subsidence claim'. I'm expecting a call from them tomorrow so I can challenge this, as it's BS (Insurer has paid for assessor visit / report, which very clearly states it's not subsidence, insurer hasn't paid for anything else - so yes I guess it's a claim but it's certainly not subsidence)
So how do I play this to cover ourselves?
- My biggest concern is that the assessor is wrong and it does turn out to be subsidence at a later date. If we're still with the same insurer (unlikely given their conduct and their quote), no problem, but if we move insurer what happens - will they roll out the old "pre-existing condition" chestnut, and then what do we do vis-a-vis the old insurer???
- My second question is when ringing around for quotes we'll be asked about claims - this sort-of IS a claim, but it's got a clean bill of health structurally, so (how) should I explain this?
I know the stock PH answer is "call a solicitor", but I can see this taking a few hundred quid of billable time to explain/get a straight answer (if a solicitor can give such a thing! ), by which point I've lost any money I could save on probably 2 years of renewals...
Could you post some photos of said cracks? Older properties are less prone to thermal movement than new ones but much more prone to subsidence, so I'm interested in whether they're trying to duck a claim.Combined with a couple of minor cracks outside (near windows), we we concerned enough and called our insurance. Assessor came out, reported that it's thermal expansion caused by old plaster and old, wooden double-glazing. They said it's not subsidence, don't worry, and we should just redecorate - it'll go away for a while. OK, so far so good.
EXCEPT...insurance renewal has come through at +75%, and on calling them they've got it down as a 'subsidence claim'. I'm expecting a call from them tomorrow so I can challenge this, as it's BS (Insurer has paid for assessor visit / report, which very clearly states it's not subsidence, insurer hasn't paid for anything else - so yes I guess it's a claim but it's certainly not subsidence)
So how do I play this to cover ourselves?
- My biggest concern is that the assessor is wrong and it does turn out to be subsidence at a later date. If we're still with the same insurer (unlikely given their conduct and their quote), no problem, but if we move insurer what happens - will they roll out the old "pre-existing condition" chestnut, and then what do we do vis-a-vis the old insurer???
- My second question is when ringing around for quotes we'll be asked about claims - this sort-of IS a claim, but it's got a clean bill of health structurally, so (how) should I explain this?
I know the stock PH answer is "call a solicitor", but I can see this taking a few hundred quid of billable time to explain/get a straight answer (if a solicitor can give such a thing!
), by which point I've lost any money I could save on probably 2 years of renewals...Original and worst cracking
Also runs up towards the ceiling in a jagged diagonal
vertical from doorframe plus across ceiling join
There's also a little bit of a zig-zagging crack through the mortar (7 rows of bricks) on the outside down from this windowsill - again it's <~1mm wide.
House is ~1990, so I think it probably IS thermal expansion...it's just we've been there 6+ years and it's only started doing it in the last year or so...
Also runs up towards the ceiling in a jagged diagonal
vertical from doorframe plus across ceiling join
There's also a little bit of a zig-zagging crack through the mortar (7 rows of bricks) on the outside down from this windowsill - again it's <~1mm wide.
House is ~1990, so I think it probably IS thermal expansion...it's just we've been there 6+ years and it's only started doing it in the last year or so...
Update: Insurers are now saying renewal was high because claim was still showing as open (now fixed), and the C-S agent referred to it as 'subsidence' as they could only see summary notes, it will now be changed to "Incident only" (i.e. no claim to be made).
I did query about CUE as well as their database and he said it wouldn't be recorded as subsidence.
Does that put us in the clear, or is there still an element of risk???
I did query about CUE as well as their database and he said it wouldn't be recorded as subsidence.
Does that put us in the clear, or is there still an element of risk???
You are in a good position.
Current insurers say no subsidence and have a report saying that.
If you suffer subsidence in 12 months time with a new insurer, there are 2 outcomes:
1) they accept the previous report as correct, confirming this is a new incident and open a claim.
2) they prove the damage pre-dates the policy which puts your previous insurer on the line for the bill.
Although most likely 1, or they may split liability 50/50. FCA suggest Insurer on cover should pick up the bill if in doubt and customer shouldn't be stuck in the middle.
People often assume that a policy has to be ongoing to claim. This is not the case, you insure for a period of time. If an incident happened during the previous period of cover but was undiscovered, you would be able to make a claim retrospectively.
Current insurers say no subsidence and have a report saying that.
If you suffer subsidence in 12 months time with a new insurer, there are 2 outcomes:
1) they accept the previous report as correct, confirming this is a new incident and open a claim.
2) they prove the damage pre-dates the policy which puts your previous insurer on the line for the bill.
Although most likely 1, or they may split liability 50/50. FCA suggest Insurer on cover should pick up the bill if in doubt and customer shouldn't be stuck in the middle.
People often assume that a policy has to be ongoing to claim. This is not the case, you insure for a period of time. If an incident happened during the previous period of cover but was undiscovered, you would be able to make a claim retrospectively.
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