RE: Mazda MX-5 BBR Stage 1 Turbo: Review
Discussion
WJNB said:
Agree that BBR must be doing something right but that does not mean spending money on trying to make something better which should have been done by the manufacturer makes any sense. Buy something better to start with that does not need messing about with.
don't agree at all. manufacturers aim at the lowest common denominator and deviate only so far whilst still making profit. As can be witnessed here on PH, few people seek driving purity or pleasure. Looks, bling and statistics are far more important to the masses. i'll happily spend a few £ to make something meet my own requirements. The unwashed are wrong. imo.Cupramax said:
Life at PH towers must be stressful, Dan appears to have aged somewhat in the pics 
It's been quite a week...Joking apart, that's my stepdad, reason for his attendance to become clear in due course... But it's a good one. Let's just say he arrived in a stock ND MX-5. And under my influence has commenced an exciting ride down a very slippery slope!
Never thought I'd actually sell the tuning dream to my parents but it seems my powers of persuasion are stronger than I thought!Cheers,
Dan
Oooh, that gonna be tempting as depreciation kicks in. 2.0 cars are already available for ~£16k. 18 months from now that's going to be £11k and the man maths starts to add up for me.
A proper sportscar with Boxster performance but only three years/40,000 miles old in the garage for <£17k and with slow depreciation and cheap servicing? Don't mind if I do!
A proper sportscar with Boxster performance but only three years/40,000 miles old in the garage for <£17k and with slow depreciation and cheap servicing? Don't mind if I do!
Dan Trent said:
Cupramax said:
Life at PH towers must be stressful, Dan appears to have aged somewhat in the pics
It's been quite a week...Joking apart, that's my stepdad, reason for his attendance to become clear in due course... But it's a good one. Let's just say he arrived in a stock ND MX-5. And under my influence has commenced an exciting ride down a very slippery slope!
Never thought I'd actually sell the tuning dream to my parents but it seems my powers of persuasion are stronger than I thought!Cheers,
Dan
If one is to do power to weight figures, the standard car is realistically 1075kg WITHOUT driver and turbo. So more like that zero should be a one, i.e. 1175kg with driver, or bringing it down to 213hp/tonne with driver.
However similar things can be said about the Porker which is realistically at least about 1450kg with driver, so 207hp/tonne, while the Elise Sport 220 is 980kg ish with driver, so 225hp/tonne. (and s2000 ~180hp/tonne)
Ok not much happened, besides them all being a bit slower. These number exercises are rarely done properly so most other cars suffer a similar fate... Just calling the cards on the table, if power figures were almost 10% off people would notice, but in true PH fashion one could argue it should be even worse with weight as it affects progress is all directions... but is rarely ever noticed.
Oh well, these MX-5 remain refreshingly light in the context of mainstream sporty convertibles, a well equipped F-type V6s rwd with 380hp tips in at 1850-ish kg with driver on actual scales, so that's also 'only' ~205hp/tonne. Yes, 'Weight matters'...
However similar things can be said about the Porker which is realistically at least about 1450kg with driver, so 207hp/tonne, while the Elise Sport 220 is 980kg ish with driver, so 225hp/tonne. (and s2000 ~180hp/tonne)
Ok not much happened, besides them all being a bit slower. These number exercises are rarely done properly so most other cars suffer a similar fate... Just calling the cards on the table, if power figures were almost 10% off people would notice, but in true PH fashion one could argue it should be even worse with weight as it affects progress is all directions... but is rarely ever noticed.
Oh well, these MX-5 remain refreshingly light in the context of mainstream sporty convertibles, a well equipped F-type V6s rwd with 380hp tips in at 1850-ish kg with driver on actual scales, so that's also 'only' ~205hp/tonne. Yes, 'Weight matters'...
Edited by Onehp on Tuesday 2nd May 02:42
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Really like the S2000.If you don't like the looks and it is too small then it will not be for you, one of the main reasons we purchased the ND was because it was so small, in fact smaller the better really !!
What I would say is don't underestimate what a good job BBR do with the engines, I'm a big fan of the old Honda VTEC engines but have to say I would not swap the S2000 engine for the full fat BBR S200 conversion in NA form.
(can't comment on the turbo version)
No it doesn't rev to 9,000 rpm and in that sense alone isn't quite as exciting, but it compensates for this by having circa 180lbft of torque at 3,800rpm and at the same time being really sweet and free reving at the top end, a superb blend of low down grunt and top end power if you want to bounce off the rev limiter - best of both worlds and sounds fab too.
borat52 said:
When you look at the power weight of all of those it makes those last ever Blackpool T cars seem ever so special indeed.
Completely different I know but if be taking a tamora over a new Mx5 any day of the week.
One's an everyday sportscar and the other is a weekend play thing. If you had £30k to spend on a two seater, to be used for work and play, come rain or shine, you aren't going to be buying 15 year old TVR.Completely different I know but if be taking a tamora over a new Mx5 any day of the week.
clowesy said:
borat52 said:
When you look at the power weight of all of those it makes those last ever Blackpool T cars seem ever so special indeed.
Completely different I know but if be taking a tamora over a new Mx5 any day of the week.
One's an everyday sportscar and the other is a weekend play thing. If you had £30k to spend on a two seater, to be used for work and play, come rain or shine, you aren't going to be buying 15 year old TVR.Completely different I know but if be taking a tamora over a new Mx5 any day of the week.
The new vs old debate, just highlighting how no one has really made a car more exilerating than a t car in this price bracket since TVR's demise which is testimony to what they were trying to achieve.
borat52 said:
I guess everyone looks at it differently but I wouldn't be driving an mx5 as an everyday car myself so I see them both as 2 seater convertibles.
That's fair enough. Conversely, I don't see the MX-5 as a second car for weekend fun. If that were the brief then it wouldn't get a look in against something like a T350 or Tamora. If you can only have one car though, and can manage with just two seats, then I'd pick this over a hot hatch any day.I don't get why people are comparing a 15 year old TVR design with completely different parameters to a modern precision engineered lightweight sports car. Or indeed a Honda designedly in the later 1990's with notoriously knife edge handling and a distinct lack of torque.
TVRs made a certain sense when mainstream manufacturers just weren't giving you 300hp warp drive machines. Now you can get that in a Golf or from a diesel BMW.
On a typical British B road in typical British weather the TVR isn't going to see which way the Mazda went. And it will probably spin into a tree trying.
TVRs made a certain sense when mainstream manufacturers just weren't giving you 300hp warp drive machines. Now you can get that in a Golf or from a diesel BMW.
On a typical British B road in typical British weather the TVR isn't going to see which way the Mazda went. And it will probably spin into a tree trying.
Edited by Honeywell on Tuesday 2nd May 22:35
clowesy said:
That's fair enough. Conversely, I don't see the MX-5 as a second car for weekend fun. If that were the brief then it wouldn't get a look in against something like a T350 or Tamora. If you can only have one car though, and can manage with just two seats, then I'd pick this over a hot hatch any day.
I get this, we do however use ours as a 2nd car though and this is where BBR help massively IMHO by adding a chunk of excitement and character to the stock package ... but at the same time maintaining a modern, reliable and very easy to live with toy. It will never compare with the superlights ( 7, Elise etc) or the more exotic used buys at this price point for that ultimate Sunday morning blast but if you want a modern, reliable, relatively lightweight, compact but at the same time practical little soft top there is little to compare it with. The Elise wasn't practical enough for us and we wanted something smaller than say a Boxter. After 16x years of 7 ownership I also wanted zero 'spanering' !!!!
Honeywell said:
I don't get why people are comparing a 15 year old TVR design with completely different parameters to a modern precision engineered lightweight sports car. Or indeed a Honda designedly in the later 1990's with notoriously knife edge handling and a distinct lack of torque.
TVRs made a certain sense when mainstream manufacturers just weren't giving you 300hp warp drive machines. Now you can get that in a Golf or from a diesel BMW.
On a typical British B road in typical British weather the TVR isn't going to see which way the Mazda went. And it will probably spin into a tree trying.
Not sure I agree with that, 300bhp Evo's and Impreza's have been around for 20 years now, and being 4wd would be much more suited to a rainy B-Road than any of the above choices.TVRs made a certain sense when mainstream manufacturers just weren't giving you 300hp warp drive machines. Now you can get that in a Golf or from a diesel BMW.
On a typical British B road in typical British weather the TVR isn't going to see which way the Mazda went. And it will probably spin into a tree trying.
Edited by Honeywell on Tuesday 2nd May 22:35
I particularly made reference to convertibles with high power/weight ratio's which is what the article made reference to in which case something like a tamora would be higher than all of the models listed.
I also think you massively over estimate how well an MX5 handles if you think a TVR 'wouldn't see which way it went' even in the wet. I'd personally not like to be bombing down a b-road in either one on a wet day.
The MX5 D has a full suite of ABS traction control, stability control and NCAP active and passive safety systems. It's handling is universally praised and it rides on relatively modest tyres with progressive breakaway.
The TVR is precisely the opposite.
For a weekend toy to take for a day out to the seaside that the mrs can drive on the way back because I've been on the Doom Bar I do not want something like a 15 year old TVR that may or may not start and is as intimidating as hell with a clutch like a tractor.
The real comparison is this MX5 turbo or a mid spec Z4 SLC TT. I think there's no contest.
The TVR is precisely the opposite.
For a weekend toy to take for a day out to the seaside that the mrs can drive on the way back because I've been on the Doom Bar I do not want something like a 15 year old TVR that may or may not start and is as intimidating as hell with a clutch like a tractor.
The real comparison is this MX5 turbo or a mid spec Z4 SLC TT. I think there's no contest.
The only TVR I would have wasted my money on was the Sagaris but now sellers are asking £70k-80k for those and they just aren't worth that no matter how pretty they are.
Anyway, the BBR kit is dope. In 2-3 years this kit will be a great buy when you can get a used MX-5 in nice shape for c.£15k and spend on the upgrades to create the car in this review.
Anyway, the BBR kit is dope. In 2-3 years this kit will be a great buy when you can get a used MX-5 in nice shape for c.£15k and spend on the upgrades to create the car in this review.
Honeywell said:
The MX5 D has a full suite of ABS traction control, stability control and NCAP active and passive safety systems. It's handling is universally praised and it rides on relatively modest tyres with progressive breakaway.
The TVR is precisely the opposite.
For a weekend toy to take for a day out to the seaside that the mrs can drive on the way back because I've been on the Doom Bar I do not want something like a 15 year old TVR that may or may not start and is as intimidating as hell with a clutch like a tractor.
The real comparison is this MX5 turbo or a mid spec Z4 SLC TT. I think there's no contest.
I understand, I'm just not sure that something which laps tracks slower than a Range Rover SVR can be classified as a sports car.The TVR is precisely the opposite.
For a weekend toy to take for a day out to the seaside that the mrs can drive on the way back because I've been on the Doom Bar I do not want something like a 15 year old TVR that may or may not start and is as intimidating as hell with a clutch like a tractor.
The real comparison is this MX5 turbo or a mid spec Z4 SLC TT. I think there's no contest.
You don't really need traction control when your that slow
It's literally whipped by things like hot Meganne's, mini's and golf's around tracks.
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