RE: Noble M600: Spotted
Discussion
L33 said:
You rang? 
I’ve been watching this thread with interest and as this M600 is my old car perhaps I’m most qualified to put the record straight?
F1nn – you clearly know very little about cars. “Volvo engined kit car” Really? Other people have expressed their thoughts on disliking the styling or saying they’d rather have a McLaren or more safety aids and that’s fine. We all like different things for different reasons. It makes the world an interesting place, gives us choice and forums such as this to discuss. You my friend just come across as a complete idiot – no offence meant. Your flippant comments suggest you don’t have much experience in driving fast cars? Please enlighten us all as to what other exotica you drive on a regular basis?
To date, around 30 M600s are in existence around the world. They are very rare, exclusive, fast, bespoke hand built supercars with a stainless steel chassis and a carbon fibre body shell. Noble’s philosophy of having a simple car with very little in the way of driver aids and a carbon fibre shell to keep weight to a minimum gives a better power to weight ratio than a Veyron and keeps fuel & servicing costs reasonable.
The engines are made by Yamaha and sent to Judd Engineering (do your research – they know a thing or two about making fast reliable engines) where the engines are reworked, upgraded and twin turbos added.
The carbon fibre body shell is a work of art. I’m sworn to secrecy where they’re made but I can say it’s all good news. The quality and pattern of the carbon weave is perfect and I’m sure they’d give Pagani a run for their money. The Carbon Sport edition uses tinted lacquer instead of paint to really show off the carbon weave to its full extent and is truly stunning in the flesh.
The interior does to some (including me) look slightly dated in its architecture but is very functional and superbly put together. The fit & finish as well as the quality of the materials used is superb. I will agree however that this particular cars interior is not the most pleasing on the eye. It was a very hideous “smurf blue” and cream before I bought the car last year but the factory kindly toned it down with some dark blue alcantara. My intentions were to finish off the interior retrim to something more tasteful but I never got round to it during my ownership.
The general quality of the M600’s construction is excellent. There was a review in EVO magazine towards the end of last year when they compared the new M600 speedster (removable roof) against a Ferrari (can’t remember which one). The Noble was praised for its build quality and lack of rattles. This made it superior to the Ferrari.
As for driving the M600, if you like DRIVING it’s awesome. There’s more power available than your testicles can handle and the way the car sticks to the road is pure witchcraft. The adjustable engine mapping (450, 550 or 650 bhp) ensures in its low power setting you can have fun on the road and drive the car properly. You can use the 550 map on wider sweeping roads but do require some restraint if keeping your licence is important to you. I found the 650 bhp map too quick for the public highway but it would be great on trackdays. My only criticism is the lack of ABS, although the Alcon brakes do a superb job in such a lightweight car there is the argument that ABS isn’t needed.
There was some confusion earlier on in this post about used M600s and conflicting stories about nobody ever having sold an M600 yet the one for sale has had a previous owner. That previous owner is me. The car for sale is the old factory demonstrator. It has always worn the number plate “M600 RHD” and the car used to be grey. This was never a customer car. No customer cars have ever been sold on and I believe I’m the only person in the world to have purchased a used M600.
As far as the buying experience of an M600 goes, Nobles distributers at Super Veloce Racing are a great bunch of guys – true petrol heads who are very passionate about the product. You also get to deal directly with the MD of Noble, Peter Boutwood. He’s a delightful guy and has a wealth of knowledge about his product. Above all, you’re really made to feel part of the family rather than just another customer in a swanky showroom.
Personally, I love the rarity of the M600 and the fact that you’d never see another at a car show. I love the fact it’s a quality, bespoke and very focused drivers car for people who love driving. I love the fact that the brand is relatively unknown and yet in the hands of the right driver its capabilities are arguably better than the Ferrari / McLaren / Lamborghini equivalent. Sure – for the large majority of us, we’d all set better lap times in a Nissan GTR but where’s the sense of achievement when you know the car irons out all of your mistakes? I may be old school but at 40 years of age, I just don’t see the appeal playing with all the cheat modes activated as being FUN? Finding purist MANual cars these days is becoming ever increasingly difficult as everyone moves to the latest flappy paddle gear change and gets hung up on Nordschleife lap times. Over the past couple of weeks I’ve tried a Cayman GT4 and an Aston V12 Vantage - both of which are great drivers cars that I'd be happy to own, but miss that sparkle that the M600 delivers in such abundance.
My only regret was selling the car – which is why I’m currently in discussions about buying it back. Watch this space…
I’ve been watching this thread with interest and as this M600 is my old car perhaps I’m most qualified to put the record straight?
F1nn – you clearly know very little about cars. “Volvo engined kit car” Really? Other people have expressed their thoughts on disliking the styling or saying they’d rather have a McLaren or more safety aids and that’s fine. We all like different things for different reasons. It makes the world an interesting place, gives us choice and forums such as this to discuss. You my friend just come across as a complete idiot – no offence meant. Your flippant comments suggest you don’t have much experience in driving fast cars? Please enlighten us all as to what other exotica you drive on a regular basis?
To date, around 30 M600s are in existence around the world. They are very rare, exclusive, fast, bespoke hand built supercars with a stainless steel chassis and a carbon fibre body shell. Noble’s philosophy of having a simple car with very little in the way of driver aids and a carbon fibre shell to keep weight to a minimum gives a better power to weight ratio than a Veyron and keeps fuel & servicing costs reasonable.
The engines are made by Yamaha and sent to Judd Engineering (do your research – they know a thing or two about making fast reliable engines) where the engines are reworked, upgraded and twin turbos added.
The carbon fibre body shell is a work of art. I’m sworn to secrecy where they’re made but I can say it’s all good news. The quality and pattern of the carbon weave is perfect and I’m sure they’d give Pagani a run for their money. The Carbon Sport edition uses tinted lacquer instead of paint to really show off the carbon weave to its full extent and is truly stunning in the flesh.
The interior does to some (including me) look slightly dated in its architecture but is very functional and superbly put together. The fit & finish as well as the quality of the materials used is superb. I will agree however that this particular cars interior is not the most pleasing on the eye. It was a very hideous “smurf blue” and cream before I bought the car last year but the factory kindly toned it down with some dark blue alcantara. My intentions were to finish off the interior retrim to something more tasteful but I never got round to it during my ownership.
The general quality of the M600’s construction is excellent. There was a review in EVO magazine towards the end of last year when they compared the new M600 speedster (removable roof) against a Ferrari (can’t remember which one). The Noble was praised for its build quality and lack of rattles. This made it superior to the Ferrari.
As for driving the M600, if you like DRIVING it’s awesome. There’s more power available than your testicles can handle and the way the car sticks to the road is pure witchcraft. The adjustable engine mapping (450, 550 or 650 bhp) ensures in its low power setting you can have fun on the road and drive the car properly. You can use the 550 map on wider sweeping roads but do require some restraint if keeping your licence is important to you. I found the 650 bhp map too quick for the public highway but it would be great on trackdays. My only criticism is the lack of ABS, although the Alcon brakes do a superb job in such a lightweight car there is the argument that ABS isn’t needed.
There was some confusion earlier on in this post about used M600s and conflicting stories about nobody ever having sold an M600 yet the one for sale has had a previous owner. That previous owner is me. The car for sale is the old factory demonstrator. It has always worn the number plate “M600 RHD” and the car used to be grey. This was never a customer car. No customer cars have ever been sold on and I believe I’m the only person in the world to have purchased a used M600.
As far as the buying experience of an M600 goes, Nobles distributers at Super Veloce Racing are a great bunch of guys – true petrol heads who are very passionate about the product. You also get to deal directly with the MD of Noble, Peter Boutwood. He’s a delightful guy and has a wealth of knowledge about his product. Above all, you’re really made to feel part of the family rather than just another customer in a swanky showroom.
Personally, I love the rarity of the M600 and the fact that you’d never see another at a car show. I love the fact it’s a quality, bespoke and very focused drivers car for people who love driving. I love the fact that the brand is relatively unknown and yet in the hands of the right driver its capabilities are arguably better than the Ferrari / McLaren / Lamborghini equivalent. Sure – for the large majority of us, we’d all set better lap times in a Nissan GTR but where’s the sense of achievement when you know the car irons out all of your mistakes? I may be old school but at 40 years of age, I just don’t see the appeal playing with all the cheat modes activated as being FUN? Finding purist MANual cars these days is becoming ever increasingly difficult as everyone moves to the latest flappy paddle gear change and gets hung up on Nordschleife lap times. Over the past couple of weeks I’ve tried a Cayman GT4 and an Aston V12 Vantage - both of which are great drivers cars that I'd be happy to own, but miss that sparkle that the M600 delivers in such abundance.
My only regret was selling the car – which is why I’m currently in discussions about buying it back. Watch this space…
Edited by L33 on Wednesday 3rd May 12:15
L33 said:
F1nn – you clearly know very little about cars. “Volvo engined kit car” Really? Other people have expressed their thoughts on disliking the styling or saying they’d rather have a McLaren or more safety aids and that’s fine. We all like different things for different reasons. It makes the world an interesting place, gives us choice and forums such as this to discuss. You my friend just come across as a complete idiot – no offence meant. Your flippant comments suggest you don’t have much experience in driving fast cars? Please enlighten us all as to what other exotica you drive on a regular basis?
The engines are made by Yamaha and sent to Judd Engineering (do your research – they know a thing or two about making fast reliable engines) where the engines are reworked, upgraded and twin turbos added.
Groan. Somewhat typically for Pistonheads these days, you've resorted to calling someone a "complete idiot" because they have a different opinion on something. I get it though, you've owned one of these cars and enjoyed it, great. They appeal to you, fantastic.The engines are made by Yamaha and sent to Judd Engineering (do your research – they know a thing or two about making fast reliable engines) where the engines are reworked, upgraded and twin turbos added.
Edited by L33 on Wednesday 3rd May 12:15
They don't appeal to me though, for the reasons I've already stated. I'm not sure that makes it "clear that I know very little about cars" I may not do of course, but one opinion about one car probably isn't enough to make that call.
As for what I drive, nothing that I would expect you to consider in the same league as your ex "exotica", I currently have a BMW 335i, Golf GTD, and at the weekend am collecting a new to me, 997. Fast cars? To some, yes, in the grand scheme of things, not really. I'm not really sure what bearing on anything this would have.
But again, I'll reiterate, I've no reason to doubt that the M600 is a very special car to drive, but to I don't like the way it looks, I think the interior looks like amatuer hour, a lot of the colour combos and detailing chosen by the factory on the demo/s really undersell and cheapen the car, and the price seems proposterous when compared to more established manufacturers offerings.
But you, and others, feel differently. Great, that's fine.
k the fit bird, not her worthy friend from Leicesterf1nn said:
I currently have a BMW 335i, Golf GTD, and at the weekend am collecting a new to me, 997. Fast cars? To some, yes, in the grand scheme of things, not really. I'm not really sure what bearing on anything this would have.
But again, I'll reiterate............I don't like the way it looks, I think the interior looks like amatuer hour, a lot of the colour combos and detailing chosen by the factory on the demo/s really undersell and cheapen the car, and the price seems proposterous when compared to more established manufacturers offerings.
But again, I'll reiterate............I don't like the way it looks, I think the interior looks like amatuer hour, a lot of the colour combos and detailing chosen by the factory on the demo/s really undersell and cheapen the car, and the price seems proposterous when compared to more established manufacturers offerings.
So you have a GTD, 335i and soon a 997 - all great cars esp. the 997 - it's an awesome machine. I'm now even more confused by your original "Volvo engined kit car" statement as maybe you do know your cars after all, only following your trolling I made the assumption you were a jealous keyboard warrior who had never driven anything more exciting than a Daewoo Matiz
Your new post above is far more constructive and states why you don't like the M600 and that's great. It gives some understanding towards your hatred and believe it or not, I actually agree with you on the garish interior colour schemes of some of the demos
L33 said:
You rang?
I’ve been watching this thread with interest and as this M600 is my old car perhaps I’m most qualified to put the record straight?
F1nn – you clearly know very little about cars. “Volvo engined kit car” Really? Other people have expressed their thoughts on disliking the styling or saying they’d rather have a McLaren or more safety aids and that’s fine. We all like different things for different reasons. It makes the world an interesting place, gives us choice and forums such as this to discuss. You my friend just come across as a complete idiot – no offence meant. Your flippant comments suggest you don’t have much experience in driving fast cars? Please enlighten us all as to what other exotica you drive on a regular basis?
To date, around 30 M600s are in existence around the world. They are very rare, exclusive, fast, bespoke hand built supercars with a stainless steel chassis and a carbon fibre body shell. Noble’s philosophy of having a simple car with very little in the way of driver aids and a carbon fibre shell to keep weight to a minimum gives a better power to weight ratio than a Veyron and keeps fuel & servicing costs reasonable.
...............................
seems you put your money where your mouth is, fair play to you.I’ve been watching this thread with interest and as this M600 is my old car perhaps I’m most qualified to put the record straight?
F1nn – you clearly know very little about cars. “Volvo engined kit car” Really? Other people have expressed their thoughts on disliking the styling or saying they’d rather have a McLaren or more safety aids and that’s fine. We all like different things for different reasons. It makes the world an interesting place, gives us choice and forums such as this to discuss. You my friend just come across as a complete idiot – no offence meant. Your flippant comments suggest you don’t have much experience in driving fast cars? Please enlighten us all as to what other exotica you drive on a regular basis?
To date, around 30 M600s are in existence around the world. They are very rare, exclusive, fast, bespoke hand built supercars with a stainless steel chassis and a carbon fibre body shell. Noble’s philosophy of having a simple car with very little in the way of driver aids and a carbon fibre shell to keep weight to a minimum gives a better power to weight ratio than a Veyron and keeps fuel & servicing costs reasonable.
...............................
Edited by L33 on Wednesday 3rd May 12:15
Thing is numbers don't lie, if they've only managed to sell less than 30 in 8 years, and please don't suggest that 4 cars a year is the sales target then there is something wrong. If it is such a fantastic drivers car compared to it's peers, then either there aren't enough driving enthusiasts that can afford it or something else is wrong, I go with the latter.
babatunde said:
Thing is numbers don't lie, if they've only managed to sell less than 30 in 8 years, and please don't suggest that 4 cars a year is the sales target then there is something wrong. If it is such a fantastic drivers car compared to it's peers, then either there aren't enough driving enthusiasts that can afford it or something else is wrong, I go with the latter.
I agree - the numbers don't lie. 30 cars in 6 years can't be a great business model. It wasn't really until SVR got involved that anyone really knew what the M600 was. Noble didn't appear to do much marketing at the time and they must be feeling the pinch at the lack of cars built by now.If this time last year I had £250k to spend on a new supercar, would I have spent it on a relatively unknown supercar car with unknown residual values? Hell no. Purely by chance I saw one at a car show and loved the design - it was the bare carbon fibre that really got my attention. 5 years on I saw an opportunity to buy a used one and after a test drive I was hooked and the deal was done. Had I not attended the show or noticed the used car for sale, I'd never have considered owning one either.
Now I've experienced the car, if I ever had the funds to buy a new one as a keeper, I would do so without hesitation.
One things for sure - SVR have a lot of work to do marketing the car to the right target audience as so few people even know what they are.
babatunde said:
L33 said:
You rang?
I’ve been watching this thread with interest and as this M600 is my old car perhaps I’m most qualified to put the record straight?
F1nn – you clearly know very little about cars. “Volvo engined kit car” Really? Other people have expressed their thoughts on disliking the styling or saying they’d rather have a McLaren or more safety aids and that’s fine. We all like different things for different reasons. It makes the world an interesting place, gives us choice and forums such as this to discuss. You my friend just come across as a complete idiot – no offence meant. Your flippant comments suggest you don’t have much experience in driving fast cars? Please enlighten us all as to what other exotica you drive on a regular basis?
To date, around 30 M600s are in existence around the world. They are very rare, exclusive, fast, bespoke hand built supercars with a stainless steel chassis and a carbon fibre body shell. Noble’s philosophy of having a simple car with very little in the way of driver aids and a carbon fibre shell to keep weight to a minimum gives a better power to weight ratio than a Veyron and keeps fuel & servicing costs reasonable.
...............................
seems you put your money where your mouth is, fair play to you.I’ve been watching this thread with interest and as this M600 is my old car perhaps I’m most qualified to put the record straight?
F1nn – you clearly know very little about cars. “Volvo engined kit car” Really? Other people have expressed their thoughts on disliking the styling or saying they’d rather have a McLaren or more safety aids and that’s fine. We all like different things for different reasons. It makes the world an interesting place, gives us choice and forums such as this to discuss. You my friend just come across as a complete idiot – no offence meant. Your flippant comments suggest you don’t have much experience in driving fast cars? Please enlighten us all as to what other exotica you drive on a regular basis?
To date, around 30 M600s are in existence around the world. They are very rare, exclusive, fast, bespoke hand built supercars with a stainless steel chassis and a carbon fibre body shell. Noble’s philosophy of having a simple car with very little in the way of driver aids and a carbon fibre shell to keep weight to a minimum gives a better power to weight ratio than a Veyron and keeps fuel & servicing costs reasonable.
...............................
Edited by L33 on Wednesday 3rd May 12:15
Thing is numbers don't lie, if they've only managed to sell less than 30 in 8 years, and please don't suggest that 4 cars a year is the sales target then there is something wrong. If it is such a fantastic drivers car compared to it's peers, then either there aren't enough driving enthusiasts that can afford it or something else is wrong, I go with the latter.
Although it's very, very unlikely I will ever have the cash to buy an M600, I most certainly would. I'd chose one because of the way it looks, the performance and the ethos behind it. I would also enjoy the fact that it isn't one of the established super cars.
The styling (for me) is great and I certainly prefer it over the likes of the Pagani, who's interior looks as though it was styled by Liberace!
Anyway, glad to see this thread is a bit more focussed. I'm off to drool over some pics of that carbon M600.
The styling (for me) is great and I certainly prefer it over the likes of the Pagani, who's interior looks as though it was styled by Liberace!
Anyway, glad to see this thread is a bit more focussed. I'm off to drool over some pics of that carbon M600.
L33 said:
babatunde said:
Thing is numbers don't lie, if they've only managed to sell less than 30 in 8 years, and please don't suggest that 4 cars a year is the sales target then there is something wrong. If it is such a fantastic drivers car compared to it's peers, then either there aren't enough driving enthusiasts that can afford it or something else is wrong, I go with the latter.
I agree - the numbers don't lie. 30 cars in 6 years can't be a great business model. It wasn't really until SVR got involved that anyone really knew what the M600 was. Noble didn't appear to do much marketing at the time and they must be feeling the pinch at the lack of cars built by now.If this time last year I had £250k to spend on a new supercar, would I have spent it on a relatively unknown supercar car with unknown residual values? Hell no. Purely by chance I saw one at a car show and loved the design - it was the bare carbon fibre that really got my attention. 5 years on I saw an opportunity to buy a used one and after a test drive I was hooked and the deal was done. Had I not attended the show or noticed the used car for sale, I'd never have considered owning one either.
Now I've experienced the car, if I ever had the funds to buy a new one as a keeper, I would do so without hesitation.
One things for sure - SVR have a lot of work to do marketing the car to the right target audience as so few people even know what they are.
The two posts, I've quoted are interesting, and L33 I do appreciate your input, because quite clearly even if we accept the car is very much a low volume prospect, I can't imagine the business model is anywhere close to working.
I'm not sure the car is relatively unknown as suggested, the motoring press seem to generally praise them and the car has gone through a number of relaunches, most notably with SVR's involvement, so I'd suggest the target audience does know about them.
L33, you raise an interesting point: "if this time last year I had £250k to spend on a new supercar, would I have spent it on a relatively unknown supercar car with unknown residual values? Hell no"
That's the problem for Noble in my opinion, the people that can afford them, by and large, don't want one.
If I'm being constructive, It needs to be cheaper, it needs better resolved styling, especially at the rear, a quick nip and tuck at the front and the worst of the details around the wheel arches, the thinner wheel spokes of the later demo don't work with the shape as much as the earlier cars, that interior...start again with that, invite the person who is responsible for some of the colour, trim combinations to leave, make it cheaper. Oh and did I say, make it cheaper?
Realistically, if it was £150k I'd not raise much of an eyebrow, it becomes an interesting, oddball alternative, a little charming even, to the mainstream players. At a quarter of a million pounds it feels like they are having a laugh.
What else is available new for £250k?
L33 said:
Purely by chance I saw one at a car show and loved the design - it was the bare carbon fibre that really got my attention.
Now I've experienced the car, if I ever had the funds to buy a new one as a keeper, I would do so without hesitation.
Would that have been the other car that is for sale in the classifieds then?Now I've experienced the car, if I ever had the funds to buy a new one as a keeper, I would do so without hesitation.
Personally I really like ethos and design but there is something not quite 100% about the interior for me. I think it might be a bit too square in places maybe and although I'm a big fan of alcantara these somehow look like they have been retrimmed over the top of an original interior rather than having been implemented and incorporated from the outset. Maybe the contrasting stitching doesn't help here?
For beautiful simplicity I still don't think that an F50's interior has been bettered, but that's just my opinion.
I'm sure I could get one looking perfect for me if I had one commissioned to my own specification though as in general it does look good. Maybe a change of wheel design would help here as well, I don't mind the original design but something a little more dainty might help the overall picture. Nit picking really though!!
PurpleAki said:
That's cool. The wheels have gone the other way and are probably a bit too thin and spindly now but the interior looks near on perfect to me.PurpleAki said:
You could have warned me to get the Kleenex ready in advance In the same way that Morgan steadfastly adhere to a 1930's aesthetic
Weismann a 1940's etc
Do Noble wish to retain the 1990's look?
Serious question and not meant as demeaning....because if that is their intention then it makes much more sense (to me), to appeal to a buyer that yearns for supercars that look a certain way and don't follow fashion...in the same way TVR did.
If they see their future as the hidden gem that challenges/matches/beats the establishment like for like then I hope they come out with something original and forward looking soon..
Weismann a 1940's etc
Do Noble wish to retain the 1990's look?
Serious question and not meant as demeaning....because if that is their intention then it makes much more sense (to me), to appeal to a buyer that yearns for supercars that look a certain way and don't follow fashion...in the same way TVR did.
If they see their future as the hidden gem that challenges/matches/beats the establishment like for like then I hope they come out with something original and forward looking soon..
babatunde said:
....there aren't enough driving enthusiasts that can afford it or something else is wrong, I go with the latter.
Both. The market for very expensive, brutally fast, manual, completely unassisted cars is tiny and getting smaller. The 'something wrong' is the badge. If it were a Lotus Esprit it's flaws would be dismissed as character and interior inspired by their racing heritage and if it had a Porsche badge it would be sold out before launch and 50k over list.fblm said:
babatunde said:
....there aren't enough driving enthusiasts that can afford it or something else is wrong, I go with the latter.
Both. The market for very expensive, brutally fast, manual, completely unassisted cars is tiny and getting smaller. The 'something wrong' is the badge. If it were a Lotus Esprit it's flaws would be dismissed as character and interior inspired by their racing heritage and if it had a Porsche badge it would be sold out before launch and 50k over list.But then what's happened to them
hmm it does smack of all the great British marques, specialist, beautifully engineered, bespoke focused.... bankrupt
L33 said:
PurpleAki said:
You could have warned me to get the Kleenex ready in advance I love the M600 and I'm still convinced, even after all these years, that if I had the money and had to buy something in this price bracket it'd be my first choice. It makes a fantastic noise, it's quicker than almost anything else on the road, it's rarer than almost anything and (imo) it still looks really really good. I loe the simple, fairly classic design. it's not fussy it just looks imposing and fast.
Just found this video of the speedster and I'm surprised by just how stunning it looks in brown:
https://youtu.be/UXSoqIC6eQo?t=76
Shame they've not made more of them, I'd like to see one on the road.
Just found this video of the speedster and I'm surprised by just how stunning it looks in brown:
https://youtu.be/UXSoqIC6eQo?t=76
Shame they've not made more of them, I'd like to see one on the road.
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