RE: Turbo uber alles: PH Blog

[Ho Lee Kau]

Loyly said:

The Turbo looks really good in that blue. Daring colours aren't just for GT models.

Glad to hear the Turbo is finally exciting again, though in truth it would always have been my choice in the 911 range. I still lust after a 996 Turbo.

If you are not after big power figures bollogs than 996T is a great car. Interior needs to be sorted, it did not age well. Also, looking from the front/rear angle it is pretty narrow. Therefore I would go for 997 model instead, spartan but nicer interior and it looks wider and more purposeful.

[Ho Lee Kau]

tjlees said:

Ho Lee Kau said:

"...as I drifted out of the blind 90-degree left turned out to be exactly what I needed for the hairpin right that followed. I just held the wheel, stayed on the throttle and the car rotated perfectly around its middle..."

Do you think this is something that you, or anyone for that matter, should do on public roads, especially in BLIND turns?
You instigate reckless driving and implore drivers to just go balls to the wall and trust the car in the corners... Really?

It's at the Anglesey circuit rather than a public road - so ok in my book

Ah, then, of course, it is more than OK!

[SidewaysSi]

Hugh Jarse said:

blasos said:

ManyMotors said:

The 911 Turbo S (that's an 'S') does things few cars have ever done or are doing. After maybe 100 mph, several cars can pull it. But from a standstill using launch control, there is nothing close

Clearly you've not heard of Tesla. Let me bring you up to speed (pun intended): The Tesla Models S (that's an 'S') thoroughly trounces the 911 Turbo S (that's also an 'S', not a 'D' or 'W' or even 'V' for that matter) in 0-30 mph and 0-60 mph acceleration.

+1 bizarre how this seems to get omitted.

EVO recently did an article on Telsa vs R8 V10. The Tesal was faster off the line but the Audi hauled it back and overtook once the speeds increased. A Turbo S is faster than an R8.

[MaxA]

I don't see how a Tesla competes with a 911 Turbo: although they both accelerate quickly enough to reorganise your internal organs, it's a far bigger saloon car which seats the whole family, it's a fair chunk heavier, has about zero emotion/steering feel/braking feel, and probably has about the same range.

The fact that the 911 can be filled up in 5 minutes or so makes it a proper car, unlike a Tesla which really is just about a bit of urban day to day and a good marketing tag.

[Onehp]

A tuned Golf R (to 500hp) as reliable as a 991 turbo? What a laugh!
Try doing 62 subsequent launch controls in that Golf... You'd be lucky if you can do six without issues:
https://youtu.be/A5DRCTW-Q7o

[Onehp]

Similar things go for the Tesla. A 991 turbo is quicker than a P90D, a P100D rediculous might get close but then it's on the brink of frying its circuits... And then it costs close to the same, too.

Not always a Porsche fan, but can't fault their engineering!

[911p]

Why is the Tesla Model S being compared to a 911? It's a luxury saloon, not designed to compete with sports cars at all...

A more relevant comparison would be with the Panamera, or something like a BMW 760Li.

Onehp said:

Similar things go for the Tesla. A 991 turbo is quicker than a P90D, a P100D rediculous might get close but then it's on the brink of frying its circuits... And then it costs close to the same, too.

Not always a Porsche fan, but can't fault their engineering!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scyYfbL5P9w&fe...

There's also videos of a P100d going to numerous drag events, launching time after time and is absolutely fine reliability wise, so I wouldn't say it's anywhere close to 'frying its circuits'. Both amazing cars, but chalk and cheese.

[Onehp]

911p said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scyYfbL5P9w&fe...
There's also videos of a P100d going to numerous drag events, launching time after time and is absolutely fine reliability wise, so I wouldn't say it's anywhere close to 'frying its circuits'. Both amazing cars, but chalk and cheese.

One thing is to do drag race events, another doing consecutively launches without 5-10min cooldown between every run as a demonstration of robust engineering. Iirc it was Tesla themselves that said that using the most ridiculous mode was pushing it and risking overheating. Doesn't sound something one want to do without cool down time. Over and over and over again.
In practice, that 500hp Golf or Tesla probably won't be that fast being pushed 100% on track compared to the Porsche that would run around until either tyres are bust or fuel runs out... that is a difference.

[911p]

Onehp said:

Tesla probably won't be that fast being pushed 100% on track compared to the Porsche

It would get annihilated - it's a 2.4 tonne luxury saloon!

Again, two completely different cars for different markets. The Tesla happens to have similar acceleration at low speeds, that's where the comparison ends.

[Onehp]

Yes of course. I didn't make the comparison from the start and the above comment was in the context of endurance, as in they would go their best the first laps or so (but still be way off), but continue and their performance would drop even further behind...

[OldBob]

blasos said:

Clearly you've not heard of Tesla. Let me bring you up to speed (pun intended): The Tesla Models S (that's an 'S') thoroughly trounces the 911 Turbo S (that's also an 'S', not a 'D' or 'W' or even 'V' for that matter) in 0-30 mph and 0-60 mph acceleration.

No it doesn't

[OldBob]

FWIW We've both a GolfR and 991.2TTS
GolfR is an excellent hatch - whilst it destroys its consumables (and itself to some extent) too quickly on track, as a road car DD it's brilliant.

TheTTS is everything turned up to 11 in comparison - and it doesn't fry it's parts whilst travelling hugely quicker both straight and corners.

Love them and recommend them both - completely different propositions.

[gigglebug]

OldBob said:

FWIW We've both a GolfR and 991.2TTS
GolfR is an excellent hatch - whilst it destroys its consumables (and itself to some extent) too quickly on track, as a road car DD it's brilliant.

TheTTS is everything turned up to 11 in comparison - and it doesn't fry it's parts whilst travelling hugely quicker both straight and corners.

Love them and recommend them both - completely different propositions.

You never considered spending 10K on the Golf to make it as good as the Porsche and save having two cars a whole load of cash then?

What on earth does FWIW mean as well? I'll be jiggered if I can work it out.

[StuH]

gigglebug said:

You never considered spending 10K on the Golf to make it as good as the Porsche and save having two cars a whole load of cash then?

What on earth does FWIW mean as well? I'll be jiggered if I can work it out.

Lol - Yipper Man Maths

For What It's Worth.......

Nice garage Bob - shame you're a gooner

[gigglebug]

StuH said:

Lol - Yipper Man Maths

For What It's Worth.......

Nice garage Bob - shame you're a gooner

Ah I see, thanks for filling me in. I did try and ask my 9 year old son what it meant but he's in a strop so texted me something equally illegible from his bedroom.

Yipper. My favourite.

Probably still better than a Gooner though, even one with an outstanding garage like Oldbob ha ha!

[anonymous-user]

Yipper said:

Always amazed that more carmakers don't compete with the 911T. You can take a Golf R and make it as fast and reliable and handleable for a third of the price. With modern turbos, engines and AWD systems, making a superfast daily is not hard. For its price, the 911T looks a bit of a ripoff, and more carmakers need to get stuck in and challenge it.

PS. Yes, I know Golf R and 911T are in the same VAG group, it is just an example

Do you have any evidence of a Golf R which is as fast or "handleable" as a 911 Turbo S ?

I'm assuming this combination would best be measured by lap time comparisons ?

[gigglebug]

RSK21 said:

Yipper said:

Always amazed that more carmakers don't compete with the 911T. You can take a Golf R and make it as fast and reliable and handleable for a third of the price. With modern turbos, engines and AWD systems, making a superfast daily is not hard. For its price, the 911T looks a bit of a ripoff, and more carmakers need to get stuck in and challenge it.

PS. Yes, I know Golf R and 911T are in the same VAG group, it is just an example

Do you have any evidence of a Golf R which is as fast or "handleable" as a 911 Turbo S ?

I'm assuming this combination would best be measured by lap time comparisons ?

If you want to know Yipper's opinion/knowledge on a subject just do an Internet search and read what's on the first page, it'll be the same thing.

[Digga]

Ho Lee Kau said:

Loyly said:

The Turbo looks really good in that blue. Daring colours aren't just for GT models.

Glad to hear the Turbo is finally exciting again, though in truth it would always have been my choice in the 911 range. I still lust after a 996 Turbo.

If you are not after big power figures bollogs than 996T is a great car. Interior needs to be sorted, it did not age well. Also, looking from the front/rear angle it is pretty narrow. Therefore I would go for 997 model instead, spartan but nicer interior and it looks wider and more purposeful.

They key to avoiding the 996's interior is just to drive it; then you only really see the gauges which are, in a period sort of way, quite functionally handsome.

I have a 996 turbo, it is everything I was told it would not be:

• I was told it would feel 'heavy', but it doesn't really and, in point of fact, if you got rid of the electric seats, the penatly added by the 4WD system is negligible.
• I was told it would feel crap on track; well which one? I've taken it around Silverstone, Oulton and the Nurburging (about 20 odd laps now) and it's been a hoot.
• I was told be the experts the steering - because of the 4WD - was compromised; well it's not, it is a joy to use and the car is very easy to place.
• I was told the 4WD and traction control meant it was a car for people without driving skills. Well this bit is true, the PSM has intervened a few times and, although I did already have opposite lock on, it may or may not have been enough or in time, we will never know. All I know is, I've never had to call my wife for a lift home from a race circuit. Which is a good thing.

In many ways, the turbo is the most maligned of all 911 variants, which is a shame. It's very much misunderstood.

[911p]

Digga said:

In many ways, the turbo is the most maligned of all 911 variants, which is a shame. It's very much misunderstood.

It only appears to be misunderstood through internet talk, I think I remember Evo rating the 996 Turbo S as the most complete 911 package ever when it was released.

This video is well worth a watch if you haven't seen it already. The way PSM corrects a pretty major slide at 11m35 is amazing - he has the system turned off and reactivates it by getting on the brakes.

[Digga]

911p said:

Digga said:

In many ways, the turbo is the most maligned of all 911 variants, which is a shame. It's very much misunderstood.

It only appears to be misunderstood through internet talk, I think I remember Evo rating the 996 Turbo S as the most complete 911 package ever when it was released.

This video is well worth a watch if you haven't seen it already. The way PSM corrects a pretty major slide at 11m35 is amazing - he has the system turned off and reactivates it by getting on the brakes.

I know a little about PSM:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad2rForYHD0

(1min 30s)

Was an interesting experiment.

Edited by Digga on Wednesday 10th May 13:07