Used car market is dead...?

[J4CKO]

daemon said:

J4CKO said:

I can see why people do this, this week I need to take my Mercedes in to have the codes read to see whats up with the suspension, probably a pump and my sons Astra is being towed home today with a suspected ECU fault, both have become my problem, along with the faulty washing machine I now have in bits in the garage awaiting new carbon brushes.

All a pain in the arse and I am fairly practical so what chance does 19 year old girl stand with no mechanical skills, knowledge or aptitude, can see why that £140 a month Fiat 500 is attractive.

I spent £200 on suspension bits for the Merc last month to cure the creaking, plus hours of my time changing ball joints, needed a special tool, will need to stick the pump on or whatever else, got to take it in to have the codes read, got to sort the Astra sending the ECU off to get it fixed. Not saying older cars are necessarily unreliable but I cant make it someone elses problem, with a lease, always under warranty, everything is new and shouldn't need replacing.

Point being, it is perhaps more expensive but it smooths out the peaks and troughs of owning a car.

I'd a similar situation - i've been running an older car as a second car and most recently that was a Volvo S40 2.5T T5. Great car 225BHP, etc, etc.

It was off the road 6 weeks in total in the first 5 months of the year with two significant faults. Real ball ache awkward stuff that required a lot of chasing to sort out, worry that it couldnt be sorted out and specific (and expensive) parts from volvo and for one of them a trip to a Volvo specialist.

Then there was the 25mpg fuel habit, £300 a year road tax, etc, etc.

Just too much hassle to drive something older and "interesting" so i got rid.

Although i ended up buying a 2016 Passat TDI that i plan to run long term (60mpg and £20 road tax), it wouldnt have been hard to justify a PCH or PCP payment on a new car, just to get away from the hassle.

My son has been texting me that he has seen a 16 grand Polo GTI, which would be an impressive purchase on an Apprentices salary, he said he can afford it as will be living back with us from July and "wont have to buy food", er, yes you will !

Would be £300 on a personal loan for 5 years, plus £100 a month insurance, petrol etc, pretty much all his wage to run a Polo, madness, will talk him down and one way or another we need to sort his car out, well I do, my wife has kindly agreed that I will pay for the repair ! she is a bit of a socialist, generous with other peoples money

[xjay1337]

J4CKO said:

My son has been texting me that he has seen a 16 grand Polo GTI, which would be an impressive purchase on an Apprentices salary, he said he can afford it as will be living back with us from July and "wont have to buy food", er, yes you will !

Would be £300 on a personal loan for 5 years, plus £100 a month insurance, petrol etc, pretty much all his wage to run a Polo, madness, will talk him down and one way or another we need to sort his car out, well I do, my wife has kindly agreed that I will pay for the repair ! she is a bit of a socialist, generous with other peoples money

You can lease a new Polo GTI for £212 a month no deposit Surely that would be a better bet

[Justin Case]

xjay1337 said:

You can lease a new Polo GTI for £212 a month no deposit Surely that would be a better bet

You can lease a new Up for £105 a month over 4 years with a £500 deposit. Surely that would be an even better bet. Figures like that could explain why so many people prefer a PCP on a new car to buying secondhand.

[Shore]

I'm now in the market for a new car and I always buy second hand so I like the fact the market is dead because it means I can pick up good cars for a good price.

This weekend I'm possibly going to buy a 60 plate Fiesta Zetec S with all the toys including the full heated leather. It's a nice car and seem to have been looked after. Picking it up for £4000 which is good value. Would much rather buy that car than take a new one out on PCP or finance.

[Sa Calobra]

I listed my immaculate Berlingo privately and the phone rang once a week. It sold yesterday but it felt like an utter chore. The buyer insisted on a very long test drive, many questions (more than even I would ask and I'm a PITA) and then offered below what I wanted.

I could have sold the car through Tootle for £200 less than the agreed price. I think in future I'll just Tootle my car(s).

[HTP99]

Shore said:

I'm now in the market for a new car and I always buy second hand so I like the fact the market is dead because it means I can pick up good cars for a good price.

This weekend I'm possibly going to buy a 60 plate Fiesta Zetec S with all the toys including the full heated leather. It's a nice car and seem to have been looked after. Picking it up for £4000 which is good value. Would much rather buy that car than take a new one out on PCP or finance.

The used car market isn't dead though!

7 year old Fiesta for £4k, nothing unusual in that.

[Crumpet]

Shore said:

I'm now in the market for a new car and I always buy second hand so I like the fact the market is dead because it means I can pick up good cars for a good price.

This weekend I'm possibly going to buy a 60 plate Fiesta Zetec S with all the toys including the full heated leather. It's a nice car and seem to have been looked after. Picking it up for £4000 which is good value. Would much rather buy that car than take a new one out on PCP or finance.

But £4K for a seven year old car isn't spectacularly good value, is it? Certainly not compared to the past - I sold a well maintained, five year old Zetec S for £4200 back in 2012.

I don't keep track of the price of cars these days but if you'd have asked me to guess a value for seven year old sporty Fiesta I'd have said about £3k. So for me, used cars don't seem any cheaper than they used to be.

Good cars those Fiestas, though.

[Sa Calobra]

Crumpet said:

But £4K for a seven year old car isn't spectacularly good value, is it? Certainly not compared to the past - I sold a well maintained, five year old Zetec S for £4200 back in 2012.

I don't keep track of the price of cars these days but if you'd have asked me to guess a value for seven year old sporty Fiesta I'd have said about £3k. So for me, used cars don't seem any cheaper than they used to be.

Good cars those Fiestas, though.

Depends, good history cars are rare. I looked at Ford Focus's (Foci?) and not one could boast FMDH. Not even close or even annual history. Most people buy cars and spend all their money on monthly repayments and st holidays to Magaluf or Turkey.

[havoc]

...and that end of the used car market does seem to be holding up well at the moment. The upper-reaches are now being hit by lots of ex-lease cars landing after 2 years and many (historic) nearly-new buyers going to leasing, but further down the food-chain good cars still fetch good money...

[culpz]

J4CKO said:

I can see why people do this, this week I need to take my Mercedes in to have the codes read to see whats up with the suspension, probably a pump and my sons Astra is being towed home today with a suspected ECU fault, both have become my problem, along with the faulty washing machine I now have in bits in the garage awaiting new carbon brushes.

All a pain in the arse and I am fairly practical so what chance does 19 year old girl stand with no mechanical skills, knowledge or aptitude, can see why that £140 a month Fiat 500 is attractive.

I spent £200 on suspension bits for the Merc last month to cure the creaking, plus hours of my time changing ball joints, needed a special tool, will need to stick the pump on or whatever else, got to take it in to have the codes read, got to sort the Astra sending the ECU off to get it fixed. Not saying older cars are necessarily unreliable but I cant make it someone elses problem, with a lease, always under warranty, everything is new and shouldn't need replacing.

Point being, it is perhaps more expensive but it smooths out the peaks and troughs of owning a car.

Leasing does put my mind at ease, as such. I think it's less stressful if you're some-what good with a spanner. Even then, you're going to be limited to what you can do, unless you're a competent mechanic.

With that being said, unless you get an absolute lemon of a car, i do concede that leasing does cost more for the privilege. It can be easier to work out if you can afford to lease over the term though.

[culpz]

Max_Torque said:

Blown2CV said:

Max_Torque said:

Looking at the rows, and rows, and rows of nearly new stock in most car dealers, i think the used car market is going to die a death at some point, which means residuals will plummet, which will push up leasing costs, and the market will re-stabilise. How long that loop will take, er, no idea!

they always have rows of stock you dumbass, otherwise they have space not being used for anything which is clearly a cardinal sin in retail. Do you assume when you go into tesco that the rows and rows of apples mean that there is a 'obvious' apple crisis?

If you can't tell the difference between selling apples and selling cars, who's the dumbass??? ;-)

The difference is the "nearly new" bit. Go on go look at the dealers stock lists. I've never seen so much nearly new metal. Sure dealers always have stock, but it's across a range of ages, giving them some protection from market idiosyncrasy, but right now, they are crammed to bursting with stock that in order to sell will have to be priced cheaper than you can get a new car (either finance or lease) and when they do that, the whole rest of the market follows it down. It's a viscous spiral, and i can see some dealers going bust because they simply have all there cash tied up in stock that crashes......

He has a point though. How do you actually know of this huge sudden crop of nearly-new dealership stock? How do you know that's an increase compared to over the past years? I'm sure it has always been the case that they have stuff that's ready to shift. Could it just be a tough particular month? Maybe those stock cars may already have been sold or had sold that day or the next? How many dealers have you seen with all this un-shifted stock? How do you know how long they've been sat there for?

It's alot of questions, i know, but that's the point i'm making. There is no evidence of your statement actually being true. It's a bit of a wild assumption really. There will be plenty of people out there that are still firm cash-buyers on the second-hand market that are not interested in leasing/PCP'ing brand new. So, regardless of how popular it may be today with all the new cars you see on the roads today, there will always be those that won't go there and buy something a few years old, after the initial depreciation hit.

[Integroo]

I have listed an immaculate low mileage Civic with a two year balance on a warranty and service plan privately. I have received several trade offers, ranging from 9200 to 9900. I want 10200, and similar year, spec and mileage are listed on AutoTrader for between 10200 and 11500, with the cheaper ones seeming to sell. I don't think I am overpriced considering I have received a trade offer for only 300 less than what I want. I haven't got a bite on eBay or Gumtree however from any private buyers. Perhaps would get more luck on AutoTrader, but it is pricey, and I don't really need to sell (I haven't had the car long, just fancy something a bit more interesting). I do think I would find it much easier to sell a diesel model though, or the smaller petrol engine - a lot of people buying family hatchbacks are focused on mpg and/or road tax I think, and whilst not terrible, at 46 mpg and 150 road tax, not as good as the diesel (67 and 20).

Also, I bought using a personal loan over four years. 238pcm, though once you factor in residual value, it will cost around 138pcm (I think). However, given 238 leaves my bank each month, you can see why people would be tempted by leasing/pcp - I could get into a brand new Golf R for 60 quid more a month, which I could easily afford, or into a brand new Polo GTI for 50 quid less a month.

[golfer19]

Integroo said:

I have listed an immaculate low mileage Civic with a two year balance on a warranty and service plan privately. I have received several trade offers, ranging from 9200 to 9900. I want 10200, and similar year, spec and mileage are listed on AutoTrader for between 10200 and 11500, with the cheaper ones seeming to sell. I don't think I am overpriced considering I have received a trade offer for only 300 less than what I want. I haven't got a bite on eBay or Gumtree however from any private buyers. Perhaps would get more luck on AutoTrader, but it is pricey, and I don't really need to sell (I haven't had the car long, just fancy something a bit more interesting). I do think I would find it much easier to sell a diesel model though, or the smaller petrol engine - a lot of people buying family hatchbacks are focused on mpg and/or road tax I think, and whilst not terrible, at 46 mpg and 150 road tax, not as good as the diesel (67 and 20).

Also, I bought using a personal loan over four years. 238pcm, though once you factor in residual value, it will cost around 138pcm (I think). However, given 238 leaves my bank each month, you can see why people would be tempted by leasing/pcp - I could get into a brand new Golf R for 60 quid more a month, which I could easily afford, or into a brand new Polo GTI for 50 quid less a month.

You cannot offer the services a dealer can like finance etc.
The £9900 might be the best way of shifting the car without the hassle or stress that private buyers can bring.

[Integroo]

golfer19 said:

Integroo said:

I have listed an immaculate low mileage Civic with a two year balance on a warranty and service plan privately. I have received several trade offers, ranging from 9200 to 9900. I want 10200, and similar year, spec and mileage are listed on AutoTrader for between 10200 and 11500, with the cheaper ones seeming to sell. I don't think I am overpriced considering I have received a trade offer for only 300 less than what I want. I haven't got a bite on eBay or Gumtree however from any private buyers. Perhaps would get more luck on AutoTrader, but it is pricey, and I don't really need to sell (I haven't had the car long, just fancy something a bit more interesting). I do think I would find it much easier to sell a diesel model though, or the smaller petrol engine - a lot of people buying family hatchbacks are focused on mpg and/or road tax I think, and whilst not terrible, at 46 mpg and 150 road tax, not as good as the diesel (67 and 20).

Also, I bought using a personal loan over four years. 238pcm, though once you factor in residual value, it will cost around 138pcm (I think). However, given 238 leaves my bank each month, you can see why people would be tempted by leasing/pcp - I could get into a brand new Golf R for 60 quid more a month, which I could easily afford, or into a brand new Polo GTI for 50 quid less a month.

You cannot offer the services a dealer can like finance etc.
The £9900 might be the best way of shifting the car without the hassle or stress that private buyers can bring.

Yes, absolutely, I accept that. I don't need to sell, so if it doesn't sell, no biggie, it's a good car. I did think the fact that it came with a two year manufacturing warranty and service plan (which would save 600+ in servicing), on top of being two or three hundred cheaper than local dealers, would swing it, but perhaps not.

[anonymous-user]

Anything interesting I prefer to buy, if its a day - day boring car I will lease, bought my Spitfire and Vantage, lease whatever MB have on offer as I have to change every 12 months.

The UK used car market is brilliant, it is so cheap and you can pick up all sorts of interesting cars for sub £10k or sub £5k, try that anywhere else, this skews the comparative cost between leasing and used.

CLS55 in the UK, good condition, low miles, dealer, circa £13-5k / same car in Germany with higher miles 30k (euros).
Renault Megane RS in the UK, 265 good condition, circa £11k / same car in Germany 18k + (euros).
Porsche Boxster S 2004 sub 100k miles £5k / in Germany 2004 150km 16k + (euros)

[Alex_225]

I must admit, we're currently selling my partners SL350 as she will need a four door car later this year.

To say it's been a slow sale is an understatement. Looked at a part ex and even the guy there said we'd be much better off selling it privately. To the extent we had to walk away from a car we really wanted.

I do appreciate it's a niche car but even with a considerable price drop from our initial advertising price, FSH and brand new MOT, zero interest in it.

[Blown2CV]

well you are always much better off selling privately, if you look at the financials only. It's just the effort you want to put in for the delta.

Not sure why this keeps coming up on a car enthusiasts site... it's basics.

[Alex_225]

Blown2CV said:

well you are always much better off selling privately, if you look at the financials only. It's just the effort you want to put in for the delta.

Not sure why this keeps coming up on a car enthusiasts site... it's basics.

You're right it is obvious that selling privately maximises the amount you get for your vehicle. The difference I've found with selling this particular car was that even the salesman appreciated that the part-ex price was so far down on even a cheap private sale that he couldn't recommend it.

You might consider £1,500 on a car in this bracket for a part-ex, when it's over £3k it's a big difference.

Of course you expect a part-ex to be lower it's that balance of convenient vs how much you're prepared to take for it.

[Blown2CV]

Alex_225 said:

Blown2CV said:

well you are always much better off selling privately, if you look at the financials only. It's just the effort you want to put in for the delta.

Not sure why this keeps coming up on a car enthusiasts site... it's basics.

You're right it is obvious that selling privately maximises the amount you get for your vehicle. The difference I've found with selling this particular car was that even the salesman appreciated that the part-ex price was so far down on even a cheap private sale that he couldn't recommend it.

You might consider £1,500 on a car in this bracket for a part-ex, when it's over £3k it's a big difference.

Of course you expect a part-ex to be lower it's that balance of convenient vs how much you're prepared to take for it.

the thing is any salesman saying that isn't doing you a favour, he is doing himself a favour. If they can't retail out of something like that, then they won't want it. PX only exists to sweeten the deal on the car you are buying, unless it is something they would carry.

[Aeroresh]

Shore said:

I'm now in the market for a new car and I always buy second hand so I like the fact the market is dead because it means I can pick up good cars for a good price.

This weekend I'm possibly going to buy a 60 plate Fiesta Zetec S with all the toys including the full heated leather. It's a nice car and seem to have been looked after. Picking it up for £4000 which is good value. Would much rather buy that car than take a new one out on PCP or finance.

but its a 7 year old fiesta? Will probably be needing a new exhaust, shocks, bushes, wheel bearings and all the rest of it pretty shortly if you're lucky, hardly good value.