Used car market is dead...?

[daemon]

MattOz said:

daemon said:

OddCat said:

V8RX7 said:

Indeed frequently the traders cars are cheaper.

Thes are 'asking' prices of course. Who knows whether private sellers are getting anything like that - if selling at all.

And yet those same private sellers will grumble about not being able to sell their cars privately and wonder why.

Unless the car for sale is still covered by the manufacturers warranty of course. My car is for sale and has 39k miles less and is 2 years younger than one currently for sale at a dealer. Mine is under manufacturers warranty for 18 months and is £1k more than the dealer car. Is it worth £1k more? Would you pay that extra, given the age and mileage delta?

Either way, it's difficult for the private seller as they can't offer finance, which seems to be the preferred method of payment these days.

Whats comparable cars to your retailing at? Any examples of comparable cars or a link to your car?

[MattOz]

daemon said:

Whats comparable cars to your retailing at? Any examples of comparable cars or a link to your car?

Mines for sale on here. Won't link to it, but search for BMW F31 335i on here and Autotrader. My car is £28,150 (7,250 miles) and the older cars are £26,995 (46k miles) and £26,250 (59k miles) respectively. I don't think mine's overpriced.

[steve-5snwi]

MattOz said:

Mines for sale on here. Won't link to it, but search for BMW F31 335i on here and Autotrader. My car is £28,150 (7,250 miles) and the older cars are £26,995 (46k miles) and £26,250 (59k miles) respectively. I don't think mine's overpriced.

I can only find 11 privately and yours does not appear to be one of them

[MattOz]

steve-5snwi said:

I can only find 11 privately and yours does not appear to be one of them

Mine's for sale on PH. Not on Autotrader.

[Mikearwas]

OddCat said:

daemon said:

Well thats wrong because they do - you're getting the ability to see maybe 100+ cars at one go rather than trawl around the country looking at "private" sales, you're getting an opportunity to dispose of your own car, you're getting the ability to drive in with your old car / drive out with a new one (so a one stop shop), finance facilities, clear their own finance if required, get a car with some sort of legal comeback as a minimum but often with a comprehensive (if not manufacturer spec) warranty, if the car has faults you can expect them to be rectified, you can have it serviced if required before pickup, it will (usually) be valeted, etc.

Completely agree. A 2013 Mercedes C63 AMG was £60k new. Numbers for a nice one should really now be:
- Trade £24k
- Private Sale £25k
- Non Franchise Specialist £29k
- Franchise Dealer £32k

....but most private sellers are asking £30k plus. No thanks, I'll pay a couple of grand more to Merc dealer with a 2 year AMG warranty, PX facility etc.

Examples:

Private. http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

Franchise. http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

It is ridiculous

Edited by OddCat on Saturday 6th May 18:08

You're way out on your assumptions. WBAC offered 29k on my 13 C63 under 3 months ago. Just because you want a C63 doesn't mean they're as cheap as you would like them to be.

A franchised dealer makes nowhere near 8k on a used car of that value. Nowhere near. Margins are very small with money made in the form of manufacture bonuses. Your figures are way off.

Edited by Mikearwas on Saturday 6th May 23:00

[nct001]

Mikearwas said:

OddCat said:

daemon said:

Well thats wrong because they do - you're getting the ability to see maybe 100+ cars at one go rather than trawl around the country looking at "private" sales, you're getting an opportunity to dispose of your own car, you're getting the ability to drive in with your old car / drive out with a new one (so a one stop shop), finance facilities, clear their own finance if required, get a car with some sort of legal comeback as a minimum but often with a comprehensive (if not manufacturer spec) warranty, if the car has faults you can expect them to be rectified, you can have it serviced if required before pickup, it will (usually) be valeted, etc.

Completely agree. A 2013 Mercedes C63 AMG was £60k new. Numbers for a nice one should really now be:
- Trade £24k
- Private Sale £25k
- Non Franchise Specialist £29k
- Franchise Dealer £32k

....but most private sellers are asking £30k plus. No thanks, I'll pay a couple of grand more to Merc dealer with a 2 year AMG warranty, PX facility etc.

Examples:

Private. http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

Franchise. http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

It is ridiculous

Edited by OddCat on Saturday 6th May 18:08

You're way out on your assumptions. WBAC offered 29k on my 13 C63 under 3 months ago. Just because you want a C63 doesn't mean they're as cheap as you would like them to be.

A franchised dealer makes nowhere near 8k on a used car of that value. Nowhere near. Margins are very small with money made in the form of manufacture bonuses. Your figures are way off.

Edited by Mikearwas on Saturday 6th May 23:00

£8k margin on stock for a franchise is very possible

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XOhZgAPn_CU

[Billy_Whizzzz]

BigLion said:

I often buy and sell performance cars every few months, I'm not a trader just a petrolhead who loves trying all the cars I can!!!

Typically I buy / sell excellent water tight examples, for very keen prices. I don't use the trade otherwise such short ownership would cost too much if factoring dealer spread etc. Typical pricing of the cars I buy are anywhere for £40k upwards.

I've noticed over the last 3 months that it is becoming far harder to even get interest in a car that is very aggressively priced and in superb condition. Also have seen the same other cars that look interesting to buy, constantly advertised for months and months but not selling.

It definitely feels like an economic slowdown and reminds me of my experience during the credit crunch - PCP deals might be keeping new car buying market afloat but I just don't think people have the money now (or maybe willing to spend that money) on the used car market that they once had. Not sure if brexit concerns are playing into this.l

I also suspect the used market has left a lot of traders with cars that now with hindsight have been overpaid for, but traders are unwilling to follow the market pricing down and hence no sales...

Is anyone else experiencing the same?

Edited by BigLion on Friday 5th May 10:36

Of course. The only surprise is that you would expect anything else. Treeza Mayhem is saying 'follow me: I have no idea where we're going but trust me, we can't have as good a deal with the EU as we have at the moment' and skilled migrants leaving, clever nationals leaving as the opportunities for research/science/academia/business are better elsewhere, weak pound, banks quitting, and uncertainty everywhere. Why shouldn't the high end car market be utterly screwed too?

[steve-5snwi]

MattOz said:

Mine's for sale on PH. Not on Autotrader.

Ah, it's a manual .......

There was also one listed below it at a trader for £150 less, had panaoramic sunroof, m sport brakes, black with red leather and automatic. I think yours will struggle as nobody wants manual 335i's

[J4CKO]

steve-5snwi said:

MattOz said:

Mine's for sale on PH. Not on Autotrader.

Ah, it's a manual .......

There was also one listed below it at a trader for £150 less, had panaoramic sunroof, m sport brakes, black with red leather and automatic. I think yours will struggle as nobody wants manual 335i's

Someone bought it new, years of selling cars has taught me that a car will always find a home, I bought a lime green auto Rover coupe once, then wondered if it would sell, advertised it and a lad rang, came and bought it, he had cancer in his leg and needed an auto whilst being treated.

Volvo 850 T5 with no air con, thought may struggle, guy who bought it was after one specifically without as he didn't like it.

So, correct to say auto 335i's are perhaps more popular but someone will want a manual, look how much people rattle on about manuals on here !

Does seem quiet, see the same cars for sale for months, think the action is in the sub five grand market and the nearly new, cheap leases and pcp on new is strangling the rest.

Oh and dealers with daft prices, if it's not sold in four months, it is too expensive and now, its four months older, drop the price, move it on, no point sitting there like king Canute commanding the buyers to pay over the odds, perhaps take a smaller profit rather than waiting for that one mug, people have the internet now and know prices, can check stuff as well.

[CubanPete]

(Canute) was actually demonstrating that he was a mortal and unable to command the tides. It's often misrepresented.

Next time you're in Knutsford services...

[CubanPete]

Interesting censor too, it isn't an autocorrect.

[daemon]

MattOz said:

daemon said:

Whats comparable cars to your retailing at? Any examples of comparable cars or a link to your car?

Mines for sale on here. Won't link to it, but search for BMW F31 335i on here and Autotrader. My car is £28,150 (7,250 miles) and the older cars are £26,995 (46k miles) and £26,250 (59k miles) respectively. I don't think mine's overpriced.

So your cars a manual estate - not a popular combination in the first place.

A dealer has an auto car on Autotrader with higher spec than yours for less money?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

How are you not thinking that your is over priced?

Actually not only that but you can buy a brand new 340i Touring auto with metallic paint for £33K...

https://broadspeed.com/CarView/BMW/3-Series/41355/...

Edited by daemon on Sunday 7th May 11:14

[daemon]

nct001 said:

£8k margin on stock for a franchise is very possible

Its possible, but on a £30K is very unlikely these days. More like £5K gross margin tops. Maybe a bit less.

[POORCARDEALER]

I think the increasing complexity of modern cars and the massive expense in diagnosis and repair of them is pushing people towards new cars.

Dealers should be bonded by local authorities (like they are in california as an example).....that would mean many of the dodgy under the radar lot would go.

I also think there is a need for the legalities of consumer rights need revising, made clearer, this would help everyone.

[powerstroke]

CS Garth said:

New car sales down considerably as announced yesterday and new diesel sales down 24 percent I think. Even allowing for this being month on month against a strong March it is difficult to ignore the mood music which is that the uncertainty caused by Brexit is starting to get very real

Yes it's sure to be brexit nothing to do with a rush to get a zero or low tax car before the new system , or the anti diesel
publicity ....

[powerstroke]

POORCARDEALER said:

I think the increasing complexity of modern cars and the massive expense in diagnosis and repair of them is pushing people towards new cars.

Dealers should be bonded by local authorities (like they are in california as an example).....that would mean many of the dodgy under the radar lot would go.

I also think there is a need for the legalities of consumer rights need revising, made clearer, this would help everyone.

Agree, and most other countries require a licence to deal in cars ...

[MuscleSaloon]

POORCARDEALER said:

I think the increasing complexity of modern cars and the massive expense in diagnosis and repair of them is pushing people towards new cars.

It's been going that way for a good while now, hand in hand with easy purchasing options. A new car financed sensibly one way or another can be attractive and cost effective. We are now at a point where many question why would they want to actually own a modern car themselves along with the burden of cost from problems.

[VGTICE]

daemon said:

Just to give a one off example - heres a 2016 Passat SE Business like the one i've just bought, sold by a private seller.

I got mine for significantly less than that from a main VW dealer with a full tank of diesel, fully serviced, valeted, new mats, fitted mudflaps and an auto glym valet pack thrown in - yet i bet that private seller is wondering why the phone isnt ringing.

Just because you managed to find a numpty who gave the car away for free doesn't mean everybody should. I always price my cars above the market closer to dealers than private, based on condition which is my USP. It takes a while to find the right person but it always happens. I do enjoy declining low ball offers, some people get really upset which is funny.

[daemon]

VGTICE said:

daemon said:

Just to give a one off example - heres a 2016 Passat SE Business like the one i've just bought, sold by a private seller.

I got mine for significantly less than that from a main VW dealer with a full tank of diesel, fully serviced, valeted, new mats, fitted mudflaps and an auto glym valet pack thrown in - yet i bet that private seller is wondering why the phone isnt ringing.

Just because you managed to find a numpty who gave the car away for free doesn't mean everybody should. I always price my cars above the market closer to dealers than private, based on condition which is my USP. It takes a while to find the right person but it always happens. I do enjoy declining low ball offers, some people get really upset which is funny.

Yeah thats right - VW main dealers are well known for giving cars away for free I mean, how would they possibly know the correct market value for something as scarce as a Passat, eh?

Why would anyone take a chance on a private car when they can walk in to a main dealer and get the car for less?

Heres the car in question by the way....

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

And heres 10 cars around the country from main dealers (including franchised dealers for LESS

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=price-...

[daemon]

VGTICE said:

I always price my cars above the market closer to dealers than private, based on condition which is my USP. It takes a while to find the right person but it always happens. I do enjoy declining low ball offers, some people get really upset which is funny.

As is your prerogative by the way. As is mine to find it really funny that some chimps out there price their cars higher than i can get the same car off a franchised dealer.

Laughing all the way to the bank actually

Edited by daemon on Sunday 7th May 12:38