RE: Porsche 911 GT3 manual: Review
Discussion
Digga said:
The Surveyor said:
Mattjevans said:
Why would anyone want to spec a clearly slower option in a model designed to be the fastest of the range? Bizarre thinking
Driver interaction, simple.I've a 991.1 PDK car and I love it - but the manual I'd love and wish it'd been an option for me. PDK is much much faster but fast cars now are bonkers and that extra speed isn't needed.
The R prices are going to plummet right down to the manual GT3 prices - especially as the engine has been improved so much.
The R prices are going to plummet right down to the manual GT3 prices - especially as the engine has been improved so much.
Definitely a much higher risk of over-revving the manual version, and flicking the re-sale value into the weeds. That's why buyers who intend to use their GT3s primarily on track choose the PDK, at least in Germany.
That was als my concern with the GT4. Lovely sports car, but for the danger of over revving...
And each over-rev is stored, un-erasable, in the ECU.
That was a deciding factor in my buying a Gen 1 GT3. Less risk of things getting really expensive after a missed shift. I wonder why the reviews overlook this aspect of the manual.
From what I'm hearing in Germany, Only 2 in 10 buyers are opting for the manual... so far.
That was als my concern with the GT4. Lovely sports car, but for the danger of over revving...
And each over-rev is stored, un-erasable, in the ECU.
That was a deciding factor in my buying a Gen 1 GT3. Less risk of things getting really expensive after a missed shift. I wonder why the reviews overlook this aspect of the manual.
From what I'm hearing in Germany, Only 2 in 10 buyers are opting for the manual... so far.
Manual vs PDK is an interesting one. As you can guess from my user name I drive an MX5, intact I have several and race a couple. I love a good manual shifter and the mx5 is up there with the best.
But..........
I'm 39 and Spent my 20s playing GT on the PlayStation. Eventually I earned enough to splash out on a wheel and peddle setup and the thing I loved was being able to use flappy paddles like a racing driver. I don't have the money for a GT Porsche, and I doubt I ever will, but if I did I'd be very tempted by the PDK because proper race cars don't have a stick.
But..........
I'm 39 and Spent my 20s playing GT on the PlayStation. Eventually I earned enough to splash out on a wheel and peddle setup and the thing I loved was being able to use flappy paddles like a racing driver. I don't have the money for a GT Porsche, and I doubt I ever will, but if I did I'd be very tempted by the PDK because proper race cars don't have a stick.
Jam12321 said:
braddo said:
Tragic
Tragic porsche fanboy, people do have differing opinions and that interior is a joke for 100K imo.FelixGerdes1 said:
Definitely a much higher risk of over-revving the manual version, and flicking the re-sale value into the weeds. That's why buyers who intend to use their GT3s primarily on track choose the PDK, at least in Germany.
That was als my concern with the GT4. Lovely sports car, but for the danger of over revving...
And each over-rev is stored, un-erasable, in the ECU.
That was a deciding factor in my buying a Gen 1 GT3. Less risk of things getting really expensive after a missed shift. I wonder why the reviews overlook this aspect of the manual.
From what I'm hearing in Germany, Only 2 in 10 buyers are opting for the manual... so far.
This has always struck me as really stupid, the car is designed and indeed marketed to be driven hard on track and yet the ECU records over revs and voids the warranty if there are too many?? So either put in something in the ECU which prevents over-rev OR stand behind your "track ready" product and warranty it anyway. I thought the rev limit was in place to protect from this sort of thing anyway or am I missing something? That was als my concern with the GT4. Lovely sports car, but for the danger of over revving...
And each over-rev is stored, un-erasable, in the ECU.
That was a deciding factor in my buying a Gen 1 GT3. Less risk of things getting really expensive after a missed shift. I wonder why the reviews overlook this aspect of the manual.
From what I'm hearing in Germany, Only 2 in 10 buyers are opting for the manual... so far.
They only sell a few thouand GT3's at most and not all of those will be bouncing off the rev limiter anyway. In the grand scheme of things the number of cars which might have issues due to over-rev are minuscule so why all the nonsense?
Guvernator said:
This has always struck me as really stupid, the car is designed and indeed marketed to be driven hard on track and yet the ECU records over revs and voids the warranty if there are too many?? So either put in something in the ECU which prevents over-rev OR stand behind your "track ready" product and warranty it anyway. I thought the rev limit was in place to protect from this sort of thing anyway or am I missing something?
They only sell a few thouand GT3's at most and not all of those will be bouncing off the rev limiter anyway. In the grand scheme of things the number of cars which might have issues due to over-rev are minuscule so why all the nonsense?
I think you are oversimplifying things...They only sell a few thouand GT3's at most and not all of those will be bouncing off the rev limiter anyway. In the grand scheme of things the number of cars which might have issues due to over-rev are minuscule so why all the nonsense?
Porsche doesn't mind if you hit the limiter on an upshift - that's what the engine limiter is for.
So going flat out from 2nd to 3d and you are bit slow with coordinating legs and hands - no worries. You cannot do physical damage as spark and fuel will be cut at 9000 rpm and that's that. An Rev Range 1 will be recorded, but it cannot impact your warranty and Porsche doesn't care. Obviously if you slam into it on every upshift, they would ask questions, but probably about your driving ability
However, imagine the following - you are on a hot lap of the Ring and you are desperately chasing time on the approach to Schwedekreuz; you go for the shift from 4th into 5th. but years of PDK exposure has muddled your brain and you grab 3d instead. No electronic limiter will be able to prevent you from buzzing the engine. The same applies if you mess up your downshift and you go from 4th to 3d too early into Aremberg, which results in 9500rpm and at least locked up wheels. Then Porsche would rightly say you are on your own...
You really can't blame Porsche for not wanting to stick a warranty on something, which is avoidable with the application of skill and diligence.
P.S. I have an old school GT3, but also a SMG M3 and can see the point in both type of boxes.
Cheburator mk2 said:
I think you are oversimplifying things...
Porsche doesn't mind if you hit the limiter on an upshift - that's what the engine limiter is for.
So going flat out from 2nd to 3d and you are bit slow with coordinating legs and hands - no worries. You cannot do physical damage as spark and fuel will be cut at 9000 rpm and that's that. An Rev Range 1 will be recorded, but it cannot impact your warranty and Porsche doesn't care. Obviously if you slam into it on every upshift, they would ask questions, but probably about your driving ability
However, imagine the following - you are on a hot lap of the Ring and you are desperately chasing time on the approach to Schwedekreuz; you go for the shift from 4th into 5th. but years of PDK exposure has muddled your brain and you grab 3d instead. No electronic limiter will be able to prevent you from buzzing the engine. The same applies if you mess up your downshift and you go from 4th to 3d too early into Aremberg, which results in 9500rpm and at least locked up wheels. Then Porsche would rightly say you are on your own...
You really can't blame Porsche for not wanting to stick a warranty on something, which is avoidable with the application of skill and diligence.
P.S. I have an old school GT3, but also a SMG M3 and can see the point in both type of boxes.
Thanks for clarifying, in all my years of driving manuals I don't think I've ever grabbed the wrong gear, certainly fluffed a gear change but that's more about not being able to engage the gear properly or trying to do it too quickly which doesn't result in a destructive over-rev as the clutch is still engaged or the gear hasn't slotted home.Porsche doesn't mind if you hit the limiter on an upshift - that's what the engine limiter is for.
So going flat out from 2nd to 3d and you are bit slow with coordinating legs and hands - no worries. You cannot do physical damage as spark and fuel will be cut at 9000 rpm and that's that. An Rev Range 1 will be recorded, but it cannot impact your warranty and Porsche doesn't care. Obviously if you slam into it on every upshift, they would ask questions, but probably about your driving ability
However, imagine the following - you are on a hot lap of the Ring and you are desperately chasing time on the approach to Schwedekreuz; you go for the shift from 4th into 5th. but years of PDK exposure has muddled your brain and you grab 3d instead. No electronic limiter will be able to prevent you from buzzing the engine. The same applies if you mess up your downshift and you go from 4th to 3d too early into Aremberg, which results in 9500rpm and at least locked up wheels. Then Porsche would rightly say you are on your own...
You really can't blame Porsche for not wanting to stick a warranty on something, which is avoidable with the application of skill and diligence.
P.S. I have an old school GT3, but also a SMG M3 and can see the point in both type of boxes.
I still think if it's a big enough issue, with all the modern techo-trickery built into cars these days it should be possible to program the ECU to avoid this, if you try to engage a gear with revs too high i.e. above 9500rpm it just disengages the drive, a computer could do that in hundredths of a millisecond.
Guvernator said:
Thanks for clarifying, in all my years of driving manuals I don't think I've ever grabbed the wrong gear, certainly fluffed a gear change but that's more about not being able to engage the gear properly or trying to do it too quickly which doesn't result in a destructive over-rev as the clutch is still engaged or the gear hasn't slotted home.
I still think if it's a big enough issue, with all the modern techo-trickery built into cars these days it should be possible to program the ECU to avoid this, if you try to engage a gear with revs too high i.e. above 9500rpm it just disengages the drive, a computer could do that in hundredths of a millisecond.
I guess it is possible, but you will need some sort of electronic aid to the clutch slave cylinder, which then gets dangerously close to having a SMG box, oh, and it will be expensive to make... I still think if it's a big enough issue, with all the modern techo-trickery built into cars these days it should be possible to program the ECU to avoid this, if you try to engage a gear with revs too high i.e. above 9500rpm it just disengages the drive, a computer could do that in hundredths of a millisecond.
Trust me - buzzing the engine is perfectly possible, We were on a hot lap of the Ring in my Z4MC - I was a passenger, the driver was an experienced VLN racer/BMW Test driver. He did grab 3d instead of 5th at 110mph. Luckily, he was quick to realize and slipped the clutch instead of letting it out, while slotting it finally into 5th. The engine has soldiered on for another 40k miles without problems, but it could happen to the best. I guess he was confused by driving a RHD car....
Guvernator said:
I still think if it's a big enough issue, with all the modern techo-trickery built into cars these days it should be possible to program the ECU to avoid this, if you try to engage a gear with revs too high i.e. above 9500rpm it just disengages the drive, a computer could do that in hundredths of a millisecond.
You are failing to understand how this works. The engine revs are not too high until the (too low) gear is engaged and the clutch is brought up. Then the speed at the wheels transmitted through the (too low) gearing mechanically over revs the engine.If you want to prevent this then there is a perfect solution - PDK.
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