RE: Porsche 911 GT3 manual: Review
Discussion
RacerMike said:
The quote related to the original 991.1 GT3 not the new one. The 6 speed box for the 911R was developed for that car. I work in vehicle development (not for Porsche) so I can tell you with full confidence that I'm not overplaying the complexity. I think the general public fail to understand just what a huge task this stuff is. Fitting a manual to a car that's otherwise PDK or Auto only is not easy....just because you can physically fit one, doesn't mean it's that easy. As a manufacturer it has to undergo a whole new round of durability, crash testing, ergonomic testing, powertrain cal, ABS cal, dynamic tuning, homologation....the list goes on.
As I said, it's not uncharted territory for Porsche though is it. Porsche are very good at presenting excellence and making it look easy, I'm sure that that takes an awful lot of development expertise so don't think I'm ignorant of the work that goes into these cars. The point I was making is that Porsche have included both a manual and PDK (or full auto) of every version of the 911 so making a fuss about adding a manual option to this variant smacks of marketing fluff rather than rocket science. Mike1963 said:
The R prices are going to plummet right down to the manual GT3 prices - especially as the engine has been improved so much.
History suggests you are very wrong on that prediction. The 'R' will always be seen as a very special car and will carry a premium accordingly, even if subsequent variants of the GT3 prove to be 'better'.RacerMike said:
The Surveyor said:
RacerMike said:
Nonsense? What's nonsense about that statement? The Porsche GT team is relatively small and has been limited in time to develop cars. If they'd wanted to develop a manual box for the last GT3 it would have been a big investment in both people and time. Two box options drives not only mechanical parts, but also completely different calibrations of the powertrain and stability control which creates a huge amount of extra work. To put it into perspective, just the stability control calibration alone is at least a years worth of work on that variant for 2-3 people. If their dynamics team was already working on other programmes including the GT3, then a manual variant simply could not have been developed.
Remember that it's only in the last 5 or so years that the GT team has been expanded and the range has been increased. Until the GT4, the GT car cycle was in series and would usually be GT3, GT3 RS, GT2, GT2 RS and back to the start.
Makes you wonder why they bother when their only making a handful of each Remember that it's only in the last 5 or so years that the GT team has been expanded and the range has been increased. Until the GT4, the GT car cycle was in series and would usually be GT3, GT3 RS, GT2, GT2 RS and back to the start.
Seriously though, I do think you're overplaying the complexity of it all, remember they already have a manual box version in the 'R' as well as multiple variations further down the food chain. Offering a manual box option in a GT3 is hardly uncharted territory for Porsche.
Vee12V said:
I'm perfectly aware that this takes time, resources and effort, but Porsche has the resources to do so if they wanted to. Just like they can decide to upscale the production of the GT department. I can only come to the conclusion that they choose not to because they don't want to. But when your pockets are as deep as Porsche's are there really in no excuse.
Ordinarily, yes, but in the wake of 'Stinkwagongate', I'd guess times are possibly a little straightened throughout the VAG group.Cheburator mk2 said:
I think you are oversimplifying things...
Porsche doesn't mind if you hit the limiter on an upshift - that's what the engine limiter is for.
So going flat out from 2nd to 3d and you are bit slow with coordinating legs and hands - no worries. You cannot do physical damage as spark and fuel will be cut at 9000 rpm and that's that. An Rev Range 1 will be recorded, but it cannot impact your warranty and Porsche doesn't care. Obviously if you slam into it on every upshift, they would ask questions, but probably about your driving ability
However, imagine the following - you are on a hot lap of the Ring and you are desperately chasing time on the approach to Schwedekreuz; you go for the shift from 4th into 5th. but years of PDK exposure has muddled your brain and you grab 3d instead. No electronic limiter will be able to prevent you from buzzing the engine. The same applies if you mess up your downshift and you go from 4th to 3d too early into Aremberg, which results in 9500rpm and at least locked up wheels. Then Porsche would rightly say you are on your own...
You really can't blame Porsche for not wanting to stick a warranty on something, which is avoidable with the application of skill and diligence.
P.S. I have an old school GT3, but also a SMG M3 and can see the point in both type of boxes.
Sounds like something a PDK driver would do. Total non-issue here. Stick all day, everyday for me.Porsche doesn't mind if you hit the limiter on an upshift - that's what the engine limiter is for.
So going flat out from 2nd to 3d and you are bit slow with coordinating legs and hands - no worries. You cannot do physical damage as spark and fuel will be cut at 9000 rpm and that's that. An Rev Range 1 will be recorded, but it cannot impact your warranty and Porsche doesn't care. Obviously if you slam into it on every upshift, they would ask questions, but probably about your driving ability
However, imagine the following - you are on a hot lap of the Ring and you are desperately chasing time on the approach to Schwedekreuz; you go for the shift from 4th into 5th. but years of PDK exposure has muddled your brain and you grab 3d instead. No electronic limiter will be able to prevent you from buzzing the engine. The same applies if you mess up your downshift and you go from 4th to 3d too early into Aremberg, which results in 9500rpm and at least locked up wheels. Then Porsche would rightly say you are on your own...
You really can't blame Porsche for not wanting to stick a warranty on something, which is avoidable with the application of skill and diligence.
P.S. I have an old school GT3, but also a SMG M3 and can see the point in both type of boxes.
I have been lucky enough to own 6 Porsches, my current car is a very low mileage 996 Turbo Manual.
My point is Porsche maybe making a manual GT3 , however you simply can't buy one, the 23 dealerships are being supplied between 7-10 cars each.
The demand far out ways the supply, the same can be said for the GT4 and GT3 RS.
Cars are being offered to buyers who bought the 918, then GT3 RS , GT3 PDK cars.
The same cars most of us couldn't buy again in the first place because of the very low numbers manufactured.
This is pushing up the ridiculous values of cars ,such as the 911R , GT3 RS etc.
Finally these so called Porsche enthusiasts, most of which will re advertise the cars in a few weeks, simply to make a quick profit.
Porsche need to increase volumes and supply the enthiasts that have stayed faithful to the brand, this in turn would start to cool the stupid 2nd hand market for these type of cars.
Alternatively the motoring public need to stop paying stupid price premiums for these cars.
My point is Porsche maybe making a manual GT3 , however you simply can't buy one, the 23 dealerships are being supplied between 7-10 cars each.
The demand far out ways the supply, the same can be said for the GT4 and GT3 RS.
Cars are being offered to buyers who bought the 918, then GT3 RS , GT3 PDK cars.
The same cars most of us couldn't buy again in the first place because of the very low numbers manufactured.
This is pushing up the ridiculous values of cars ,such as the 911R , GT3 RS etc.
Finally these so called Porsche enthusiasts, most of which will re advertise the cars in a few weeks, simply to make a quick profit.
Porsche need to increase volumes and supply the enthiasts that have stayed faithful to the brand, this in turn would start to cool the stupid 2nd hand market for these type of cars.
Alternatively the motoring public need to stop paying stupid price premiums for these cars.
Wish stop people would stop banging on about the supply issue. Porsche are a business and the special GT category of cars is their halo\PR model. They don't make those cars to make money on them, they make those cars to generate pages of free advertising so that magazines gush eternal about how wonderful they are and hundreds of thousands of pages of web content are generated by people moaning about not being able to buy them.
If they wanted to make more GT cars they could but the very fact that they are hard to get hold of and therefore have that very elusive kudos is worth more to Porsche in PR then selling a few thousand extra GT cars a year. The quicker people except that fact and get over the butt hurt, the better.
If they wanted to make more GT cars they could but the very fact that they are hard to get hold of and therefore have that very elusive kudos is worth more to Porsche in PR then selling a few thousand extra GT cars a year. The quicker people except that fact and get over the butt hurt, the better.
Porsche make a profit on every car they produce, having worked for them until 4 abroad, the advertising wether it's Cayman Macan are all free , due to the motoring press interest in the brand, it's very rare Porsche advertise in magazines especially there GT cars.
The factory doesn't have the capacity to produce the volume to support the number of cars it could sell world wide.
I am simply pointing out that if you can afford to buy a GT3 it would be great to have the opportunity, that's all, not to much to ask.
The factory doesn't have the capacity to produce the volume to support the number of cars it could sell world wide.
I am simply pointing out that if you can afford to buy a GT3 it would be great to have the opportunity, that's all, not to much to ask.
I think used prices are more realistic now if you add on the cost of all the options on a GT3 sometimes costing over 20k.All the speculators are getting is
several thousand miles of free driving without depreciation.There are many nice used GT3s & GT3rs in independent garages for sale.Your just paying slightly over new price.Apart from 911Rs and RS4ltres.some of these hang around at 450k!! By the way if your over revving a GT3 on the road your driving
too fast.
several thousand miles of free driving without depreciation.There are many nice used GT3s & GT3rs in independent garages for sale.Your just paying slightly over new price.Apart from 911Rs and RS4ltres.some of these hang around at 450k!! By the way if your over revving a GT3 on the road your driving
too fast.
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