RE: Driving the 2018MY Jaguars
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
Some, but not many I'm honest.
As unlikely as winning the lotto is, if I did. There are actually very few new car dealerships I'd be visiting.
I like the S550 Mustang. I think the MINI's, although not as good looking as past MIN's still look good. Many US market pickup trucks, but including some from Toyota and others not just US makers.
GT86/BRZ, MX-5, some Subaru's, some Volvo's. Jeeps. And others. Not saying I'd want to buy any or all of these. But they are cars I don't personally object too from my own taste point of view.
If it was money where my own mouth is:
-Mustang
-Wrangler
-MX-5
-GT86
-Ram
-Raptor
There are others.
I thought Cotic asked for examples of cars you liked. not light industrial trucks... ;-)As unlikely as winning the lotto is, if I did. There are actually very few new car dealerships I'd be visiting.
I like the S550 Mustang. I think the MINI's, although not as good looking as past MIN's still look good. Many US market pickup trucks, but including some from Toyota and others not just US makers.
GT86/BRZ, MX-5, some Subaru's, some Volvo's. Jeeps. And others. Not saying I'd want to buy any or all of these. But they are cars I don't personally object too from my own taste point of view.
If it was money where my own mouth is:
-Mustang
-Wrangler
-MX-5
-GT86
-Ram
-Raptor
There are others.
(PS thumbs up to the GT86 and Mx5 though!)
I've gone from an all-singing all-dancing Merc S500L to an XF Sportbrake - and love the Jag.
The Merc was shocking in it's build quality and reliability...and despite all the toys, it had no soul to make me turn the other way when another bit of trim came away or warning light fired up.
I've had multiple BMW's, Audi's and the one Merc (but many others within the family going back to the 70's), and none possess the charm I find with the Jag. And that isn't charm like a dotty old auntie where her faults convey a certain character...I just like it more than zee Germans.
I think an XJ will be next...replacement next year? Or maybe the new Sportbrake when it's out.
The Merc was shocking in it's build quality and reliability...and despite all the toys, it had no soul to make me turn the other way when another bit of trim came away or warning light fired up.
I've had multiple BMW's, Audi's and the one Merc (but many others within the family going back to the 70's), and none possess the charm I find with the Jag. And that isn't charm like a dotty old auntie where her faults convey a certain character...I just like it more than zee Germans.
I think an XJ will be next...replacement next year? Or maybe the new Sportbrake when it's out.
I like the exterior design of the XE and XF, but as others have already said the interiors need improvement - or perhaps Jaguar need a new interior design team.
Nobody seems to have commented that Jaguar has launched these two cars plus the F-Pace in double quick time by auto industry standards. Without that renewal, and especially the F-Pace, the Jaguar brand would be a dead beast by now. Jaguar fans should give credit to Rajan Tata for being prepared to back the brand so strongly.
Nobody seems to have commented that Jaguar has launched these two cars plus the F-Pace in double quick time by auto industry standards. Without that renewal, and especially the F-Pace, the Jaguar brand would be a dead beast by now. Jaguar fans should give credit to Rajan Tata for being prepared to back the brand so strongly.
Limpet said:
Completely agree with this post.
You get this all the time with MINI, about how the original was a classic and BMW made it a fashion accessory and ruined it blah blah. No, they took a modern interpretation of an antiquated product that was well past its sell by date, and more importantly (last year rush aside), that nobody was buying, and they marketed it absolutely flawlessly, creating an entire brand around the product.
I really like the Jaguar range (ridiculously shouty F Type exhaust note aside). The cars look good (achingly so in the case of the F Type Coupe), they seem pretty well made, and they are nice places to sit. Reliability depends who you speak to, but lets face it, BMW, Audi and Mercedes are hadly bastions of flawless engineering these days. Audi Multitronic owners and BMW N47 owners faced with crippling bills due to fundamentally flawed engineering are testament to that. I personally know of a case of Mercedes diesel injector failure on the way home from the showroom. The invincible German engineering thing has been little more than marketing fluff for a long time now.
Panning our own stuff and talking ourselves down is a thing in the UK. You just don't see it in other countries and cultures. Jaguars are not perfect, but neither are Mercedes, BMWs or Audis.
Completely disagree about the Mini/MINI. And for many years the classic one was a fashion accessory too. Hence it was still in production. They kept it as part of the range because it kept selling. You get this all the time with MINI, about how the original was a classic and BMW made it a fashion accessory and ruined it blah blah. No, they took a modern interpretation of an antiquated product that was well past its sell by date, and more importantly (last year rush aside), that nobody was buying, and they marketed it absolutely flawlessly, creating an entire brand around the product.
I really like the Jaguar range (ridiculously shouty F Type exhaust note aside). The cars look good (achingly so in the case of the F Type Coupe), they seem pretty well made, and they are nice places to sit. Reliability depends who you speak to, but lets face it, BMW, Audi and Mercedes are hadly bastions of flawless engineering these days. Audi Multitronic owners and BMW N47 owners faced with crippling bills due to fundamentally flawed engineering are testament to that. I personally know of a case of Mercedes diesel injector failure on the way home from the showroom. The invincible German engineering thing has been little more than marketing fluff for a long time now.
Panning our own stuff and talking ourselves down is a thing in the UK. You just don't see it in other countries and cultures. Jaguars are not perfect, but neither are Mercedes, BMWs or Audis.
And I like the new ones. Although I suspect the concept and origin of the re-visioning was probably Rover led. Hence the production code of R50. I wonder what the R might have stood for, Rover maybe.
As for Jaguar. I was looking at these recently and lament where did it all go wrong to end up with the current range/styling. These look great IMO.
Patrick Bateman said:
What's wrong with the XF interior?
A friend has a 2013/2014 plate XF and the interior is bloody lovely in that.
That's the first generation XF and the interior was really quite nice, with a few poor quality details. In many ways it made the car, and was extremely well received at the time. I personally thought that the first gen XF and the current XJ really set a great tone for a 21st century Jaguar interior and was keen to see where they took it.A friend has a 2013/2014 plate XF and the interior is bloody lovely in that.
Sadly the new one is a big step back, and is really very drab. The two tone colour schemes for the seats in the current XF and the XE and the seat design itself is singularly ugly too.
Edited by dme123 on Friday 12th May 00:25
FWDRacer said:
babbedyboobedy said:
This is so poorly written.
Cliché ridden. The bloke doing it was sat in a massive long sheepskin coat, it seems to have influenced the writing style, or resulted in the pen getting caught in the sleeves.PrancingHorses said:
WTF is that ugly piece of plastic showing behind the grill badges 
Radar sensor for adaptive cruise control?Did jaguar hire the design bloke from volvos of the 90s? They are all so square now. The last XF was pretty but the new one is just so square and straight edge.
Plus why are jag still not putting a LED headlight in the XE, miles behind Audi, merc and even BMW.
Ide be waiting for a replacement s60 in the XE segment
It's a shame the XJ is the best looking and it's the only one not to be replaced yet, when it is I assume it will be square and a bit dull
We had the supercharged V6 F-Pace on pre order as it seemed the perfect family car. When we finally got to test drive it the interior just wasn't good enough for a £50k+ car. If Jaguar had allowed the interior leather to be upgraded to something other than the plasticy leather and offered a better range of colours then I think we would have stuck with the car. Instead we bought a XC90, whose interior is a massive step up over the F-Pace. Obviously the XC90 is not as fast or as good dynamically as the F-Pace but it is a different league entirely in terms of interior space and quality.
I found it really perverse that Jaguar would not let me spend money to sort out the interior. At the time you could upgrade the leather in the XF but that option seems to have been removed with the refresh of the XF.
I found it really perverse that Jaguar would not let me spend money to sort out the interior. At the time you could upgrade the leather in the XF but that option seems to have been removed with the refresh of the XF.
I wanted to try and like a Jag when I went to look for a practical saloon (prior to buying the BMW 6 gran coupe), frankly I found the interiors awful in the Jag and poor quality all over (considering the list price between the two with discount was not significantly different).
And I am absolutely amazed by the amount of rejected F Pace cars. The issues seem just to go on and on...ICE issues common as hell, suspension bolts being found on the ground, front diff seals failures on cars with only a few hundred miles on, 22" wheel issues from the rear with rotational noises (identified by Jaguar now as coming from the CV joint/bearing area as the joint is not straight with 22's on- possibly shortening the lifespan of the bearing, then to be told to some owners that they never CAD simulated the car with 22" wheels), leather quality issues, panel gap issues (mostly appears to be the bonnet not aligning properly either side).
The fact that an owner had to reject 2 F Pace cars and the third was still not right is frankly absolutely appalling and insane.
Ultimately, it just stinks of a company that could not give a hoot. Added to anecdotal evidence from what was Rybrook Chester Volvo and Jaguar....numerous techs on both sides when my parents were looking simply went do not bother with Jaguar, if you want to buy another car from us look at Volvo.
Granted the new MK2 XC90 has not been perfect with similar noise related issues from 20" inch wheels, but Volvo seem to have resolved most of these issues now, along with the Sensus issues and HVAC leak...
And I am absolutely amazed by the amount of rejected F Pace cars. The issues seem just to go on and on...ICE issues common as hell, suspension bolts being found on the ground, front diff seals failures on cars with only a few hundred miles on, 22" wheel issues from the rear with rotational noises (identified by Jaguar now as coming from the CV joint/bearing area as the joint is not straight with 22's on- possibly shortening the lifespan of the bearing, then to be told to some owners that they never CAD simulated the car with 22" wheels), leather quality issues, panel gap issues (mostly appears to be the bonnet not aligning properly either side).
The fact that an owner had to reject 2 F Pace cars and the third was still not right is frankly absolutely appalling and insane.
Ultimately, it just stinks of a company that could not give a hoot. Added to anecdotal evidence from what was Rybrook Chester Volvo and Jaguar....numerous techs on both sides when my parents were looking simply went do not bother with Jaguar, if you want to buy another car from us look at Volvo.
Granted the new MK2 XC90 has not been perfect with similar noise related issues from 20" inch wheels, but Volvo seem to have resolved most of these issues now, along with the Sensus issues and HVAC leak...
Edited by Ninja59 on Friday 12th May 10:14
Ninja59 said:
Granted the new MK2 XC90 has not been perfect with similar noise related issues from 20" inch wheels, but Volvo seem to have resolved most of these issues now, along with the Sensus issues and HVAC leak...
The HVAC issue was addressed via a recall, a tiny minority of cars globally had an actual issue but all were checked. There has been one other recall for the seat belt. Sensus can still randomly reboot for some owners, although I haven't had a single reboot yet. Edited by Ninja59 on Friday 12th May 10:14
The noise issue is a difficult one, as there has been a wide spread of complaints without widespread empirical evidence, one person's noisy is another person's quiet. Early in the life cycle Volvo added some mass dampers to the rear pillars to reduce resonance. Personally I think it is worst on 20" wheels as these come with a unique tire that the other wheel sizes do not come with. Volvo now offer special quiet tires to reduce tire noise. Air suspension as it has a completely different rear suspension and the rear window blinds (standard on inscription) as they introduce a gap at the top of the rear doors make the issue worse. It is the resonance related issues that make the noise unbearable, otherwise it is no worse than other SUVs with large wheels.
tankplanker said:
he HVAC issue was addressed via a recall, a tiny minority of cars globally had an actual issue but all were checked. There has been one other recall for the seat belt. Sensus can still randomly reboot for some owners, although I haven't had a single reboot yet.
The noise issue is a difficult one, as there has been a wide spread of complaints without widespread empirical evidence, one person's noisy is another person's quiet. Early in the life cycle Volvo added some mass dampers to the rear pillars to reduce resonance. Personally I think it is worst on 20" wheels as these come with a unique tire that the other wheel sizes do not come with. Volvo now offer special quiet tires to reduce tire noise. Air suspension as it has a completely different rear suspension and the rear window blinds (standard on inscription) as they introduce a gap at the top of the rear doors make the issue worse. It is the resonance related issues that make the noise unbearable, otherwise it is no worse than other SUVs with large wheels.
Oh I am well aware of some of the specifics (ex-C30 owner, but still follow a few Volvo forums), I was only comparing the F Pace v a car I know about in particular (and suggested to my parents when they were looking to change their V40, in the end they ended up with a V60 Polestar).... The noise issue is a difficult one, as there has been a wide spread of complaints without widespread empirical evidence, one person's noisy is another person's quiet. Early in the life cycle Volvo added some mass dampers to the rear pillars to reduce resonance. Personally I think it is worst on 20" wheels as these come with a unique tire that the other wheel sizes do not come with. Volvo now offer special quiet tires to reduce tire noise. Air suspension as it has a completely different rear suspension and the rear window blinds (standard on inscription) as they introduce a gap at the top of the rear doors make the issue worse. It is the resonance related issues that make the noise unbearable, otherwise it is no worse than other SUVs with large wheels.
dme123 said:
Patrick Bateman said:
What's wrong with the XF interior?
A friend has a 2013/2014 plate XF and the interior is bloody lovely in that.
That's the first generation XF and the interior was really quite nice, with a few poor quality details. In many ways it made the car, and was extremely well received at the time. I personally thought that the first gen XF and the current XJ really set a great tone for a 21st century Jaguar interior and was keen to see where they took it.A friend has a 2013/2014 plate XF and the interior is bloody lovely in that.
Sadly the new one is a big step back, and is really very drab. The two tone colour schemes for the seats in the current XF and the XE and the seat design itself is singularly ugly too.
Edited by dme123 on Friday 12th May 00:25
Jaguar interiors (apart from the expensive XJ) have taken a massive step backwards since the original XF. Not only are they drab, with a very limited selection of trims, the materials (especially plastics) are AWFUL and the build quality something more akin to a pre-production car than a production model. Pistonheads mentions this about the XE, but it's something that seriously afflicts the XF and F-Pace as well.
It really is shocking, and something that Jaguar urgently needs to sort out if their success is to have some longevity, when people realise that they have a flawed package once the novelty of pretty looks and very good driving dynamics wears off (the long term test at the link below sums this up pretty much perfectly). An update for MY19 Jaguar?
It's all just such a real shame, as the rest of these cars' qualities are all so good (apart from the XE's rear space, but then just buy an XF if that's an issue). An XE S would be top of my list were it not for the dreadful interior. And I know what people will say - you buy a car like that for the way it drives, and if interior quality is such an issue buy a BMW or Audi. Well, call me crazy, but for £50k+ I want the complete package, and a 340i or S4 would just be a bit dull...
Guess I'll have to wait a bit longer.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/long-term...
Ray_Aber said:
ArtVandelay said:
From what I've read, the new XF is a step down from the previous generation with regards the interior.
I'd argue the XJ still has one of the nicest interiors of any modern car, though Mercedes top that now with the new S-Class IMO
I love my XJ Supersport, it has everything I need in a car, even if it's a pain to park.
You're absolutely right. My comment didn't mention the XJ interior, but I should have; how can Jaguar come up with swoopy brilliance in the XJ, then go black and bland in the XE/XF/F-Pace? The XJ should have been the platform to kick on with interiors, but that simply did not happen. I'd argue the XJ still has one of the nicest interiors of any modern car, though Mercedes top that now with the new S-Class IMO
I love my XJ Supersport, it has everything I need in a car, even if it's a pain to park.
PS I hate the Merc E type slab dash. Just saying. It may be well built, but it's like being under a large wave (Jaws, Teapuho'o) before it breaks....
Huge shame...I hope they use some of the profit they've made to fix this for the next facelift - it wouldn't take much: some soft plastics, a few more trim choices, nicer leather and fixing things like the flimsy armrest and centre console.
Edited by Dunhillion on Saturday 13th May 12:24
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